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  #101  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2014, 12:34 AM
bartlebooth bartlebooth is offline
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
But if fun is hiding in an undisclosed location, or has to be conducted in secret then I'm not sure it meets a globally-accepted definition of fun. I'm sure some crazy shit goes down Riyadh too.
I'm not really talking about super obscure things here. Yes, crazy things happen everywhere. I can agree that it is a problem if events do not get a lot of recognition or interest because of their obscurity or secrecy but I personally don't think it is that hard to find things that are interesting in the city. People that complain about how boring it is aren't really looking or are making absurd comparisons to cities like NYC or London then feeling let down about Ottawa.

I am talking more about an arts, music, design, cultural scene that is exciting and is happening now, is helping define the ambitions of a younger generation of people in Ottawa and runs against the idea that no fun is happening in the city. Less complaining (not you acottawa but in general) and more doing, making, engaging will help shed Ottawa of this reputation I hope.
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  #102  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2014, 1:35 AM
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An Arts scene that includes SAW Gallery, Enriched Bread Artists, dozens of galleries from Orange to La Petite Mort, theatre ranging from the NAC and GCTC to Savoy to Fringe, live music venues ranging from Zaphod's, Mavericks, Babylon, the Rainbow etc, to the NAC on up to Canadian Tire Centre, and we are about to get back the Lansdown venues that will fill out both the mid range with the Civic Centre, and a true stadium venue!

We've got a decent pro sports scene for a town our size, about to get better with the addition of the unfortunately named RedBlacks as well an NASL team, the Fury.

Museums out the wazoo.

Interesting organizations like Hub Ottawa creating an entrepreneurial culture... Along with Invest Ottawa projects and a really interesting set of new businesses owned by young folk that are helping out their friends in turn; jackpine, antique, auntie loos, jet black, victoire, etc.

Ottawa right now is a very exciting place to be.
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  #103  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2014, 4:13 AM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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You're complaining about a lack of stuff late at night in Downtown Calgary and then say how it isn't the case in Centretown. Ok. Try the same thing on Sparks St or on Bank north of Laurier. If you would've ventured south in Calgary, much like you would in Ottawa, you would've found a lot in Calgary's Beltline.
That's the direction I headed in Calgary. found nothing like even Bank Street south of Laurier, but I was probably a block or two away when I gave up.
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  #104  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2014, 12:12 PM
EdFromOttawa EdFromOttawa is offline
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Originally Posted by m0nkyman View Post
An Arts scene that includes SAW Gallery, Enriched Bread Artists, dozens of galleries from Orange to La Petite Mort, theatre ranging from the NAC and GCTC to Savoy to Fringe, live music venues ranging from Zaphod's, Mavericks, Babylon, the Rainbow etc, to the NAC on up to Canadian Tire Centre, and we are about to get back the Lansdown venues that will fill out both the mid range with the Civic Centre, and a true stadium venue!

We've got a decent pro sports scene for a town our size, about to get better with the addition of the unfortunately named RedBlacks as well an NASL team, the Fury.

Museums out the wazoo.

Interesting organizations like Hub Ottawa creating an entrepreneurial culture... Along with Invest Ottawa projects and a really interesting set of new businesses owned by young folk that are helping out their friends in turn; jackpine, antique, auntie loos, jet black, victoire, etc.

Ottawa right now is a very exciting place to be.
Are you for real? One pro sports team for a (globally) marginal sport based 45 minutes from downtown Ottawa with the worst attendance of any Canadian team? Between 2005 and Summer 2014 Ottawa had by far the worst pro sports scene of any >750,000 person city in the country. The location of CTC is a joke and there is nothing in the downtown core that would indicate in any way Ottawa plays sports of any kind (no ads, no billboards, no apparel, hell the Sens Store at Rideau closed down).

I concede this summer it will improve astronomically with the Fury and the (appropriately named) Redblacks...but still. Even Calgary and Edmonton have had 3+ pro teams (NHL, CFL, NLL, NASL, IBL) for years and years while Ottawa consistently folded franchises.
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  #105  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2014, 1:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ue
The language is due to your snarky demeanor. What, you don't see it? You know there are other ways to not be docile...
Funny, I thought there was a healthy amount of snarkiness being exhibited on all sides. Anyway, I won't expect a Christmas card from you.

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Originally Posted by EdFromOttawa View Post
Are you for real? One pro sports team for a (globally) marginal sport based 45 minutes from downtown Ottawa with the worst attendance of any Canadian team?
At least try to get your facts right when making a claim. But hey, why let silly things like facts get in the way of a good debate?

Ottawa's attendance for 2013-2014 is 13th in the league, and ahead of Edmonton and Winnipeg.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance

Interestingly, there was a time during the period you mentioned, Ottawa was even ahead of Toronto in terms of attendance.

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Originally Posted by m0nkyman
...
Exactly. While there are plenty of annoyances and areas of improvement, those who have interests other than perpetual misery, and care enough to plug themselves into the community, are well aware of the region's overall situation and pretty proud/excited about it.
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  #106  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2014, 1:34 PM
EdFromOttawa EdFromOttawa is offline
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Originally Posted by ac888yow View Post
Funny, I thought there was a healthy amount of snarkiness being exhibited on all sides. Anyway, I won't expect a Christmas card from you.

At least try to get your facts right when making a claim. But hey, why let silly things like facts get in the way of a good debate?

Ottawa's attendance for 2013-2014 is 13th in the league, and ahead of Edmonton and Winnipeg.


http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance

Interestingly, there was a time during the period you mentioned, Ottawa was even ahead of Toronto in terms of attendance.

Exactly. While there are plenty of annoyances and areas of improvement, those who have interests other than perpetual misery, and care enough to plug themselves into the community, are well aware of the region's overall situation and pretty proud/excited about it.
learn how to statistics. Of course Ottawa has higher overall attendance than those teams. Edmonton and Winnipeg have two of the three smallest NHL arenas in the league. Ottawa has one of the largest. Look at the 'percentage filled'...Ottawa is 22nd in the LEAGUE. Behind the ISLANDERS. Also even that percentage is misleading because it appears to be using CTC's old capacity of 19,500 (it's closer to 20,500 now if I remember correctly).
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  #107  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2014, 1:43 PM
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Originally Posted by EdFromOttawa View Post
learn how to statistics. Of course Ottawa has higher overall attendance than those teams. Edmonton and Winnipeg have two of the three smallest NHL arenas in the league. Ottawa has one of the largest. Look at the 'percentage filled'...Ottawa is 22nd in the LEAGUE. Behind the ISLANDERS. Also even that percentage is misleading because it appears to be using CTC's old capacity of 19,500 (it's closer to 20,500 now if I remember correctly).
Learn how to grammar.

You made a claim about attendance, and I blew that up pretty quickly. Now you're making a claim about "percentage full", to which I have no argument ... about this season.

But hey, as you're the statistics expert, you know that looking at a sample of one (season) is exactly the way to do it
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  #108  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2014, 2:23 PM
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Originally Posted by EdFromOttawa View Post
learn how to statistics. Of course Ottawa has higher overall attendance than those teams. Edmonton and Winnipeg have two of the three smallest NHL arenas in the league. Ottawa has one of the largest. Look at the 'percentage filled'...Ottawa is 22nd in the LEAGUE. Behind the ISLANDERS. Also even that percentage is misleading because it appears to be using CTC's old capacity of 19,500 (it's closer to 20,500 now if I remember correctly).
Aren't you just a ray of sunshine on all topics Ottawa?

What exactly does "percentage full" have to do with your claim that Ottawa has the "worst attendance" in Canada? Call me old fashioned, but I always thought attendance was the number of people who attended games. In which case, Ottawa is ahead of every team that you mention.

It's quite well-documented that Ottawa is a mid-level team in terms of attendance and revenue. At high points, it's been in the top 10 in both categories. And that despite the handicap of its arena location. Most people would read that to mean that it punches slightly above its weight. But not you, apparently. Better to contrive reasons to complain. Globally marginal sport? Other than soccer, what isn't in that category?
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  #109  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2014, 2:26 PM
EdFromOttawa EdFromOttawa is offline
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Originally Posted by phil235 View Post
Aren't you just a ray of sunshine on all topics Ottawa?

What exactly does "percentage full" have to do with your claim that Ottawa has the "worst attendance" in Canada? Call me old fashioned, but I always thought attendance was the number of people who attended games. In which case, Ottawa is ahead of every team that you mention.

It's quite well-documented that Ottawa is a mid-level team in terms of attendance and revenue. At high points, it's been in the top 10 in both categories. And that despite the handicap of its arena location. Most people would read that to mean that it punches slightly above its weight. But not you, apparently.
It's not old-fashioned, it's wrong. Percentage filled demonstrates demand. If Winnipeg had a 20,000 seat arena, that would be sold out too based on the current percentage filled. Winnipeg and others also contend with other pro teams in the city. Ottawa does not (yet). It's inexcusable that attendance in Ottawa is the way that it is if it has a so-called 'pro sports scene'.
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  #110  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2014, 2:43 PM
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Originally Posted by EdFromOttawa View Post
It's not old-fashioned, it's wrong. Percentage filled demonstrates demand. If Winnipeg had a 20,000 seat arena, that would be sold out too based on the current percentage filled. Winnipeg and others also contend with other pro teams in the city. Ottawa does not (yet). It's inexcusable that attendance in Ottawa is the way that it is if it has a so-called 'pro sports scene'.
It's wrong? So let me get this straight. You are actually claiming that attendance is not the number of people attending games?

And no, percentage filled does not demonstrate demand. It just says that supply and demand are at least balanced. There is absolutely no basis for saying that Winnipeg would fill a 20,000 seat arena. In fact, there have been lots of rumblings of softening demand there as well, after the initial high. And you're not exactly talking about a flawless track record in Winnipeg's case. Take a quick look at the 90s when attendance in Winnipeg was brutal.

Or look at Calgary for that matter. Remember when they were curtaining off the top level of the Saddledome to reduce capacity?

A lot of these issues come down to the economy. Ottawa is going through a tough economic time right now and attendance shows that. Hardly a good reason to slam the city, unless you are prepared to slam every one of those other cities that you are comparing.
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  #111  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2014, 4:32 PM
sam2020 sam2020 is offline
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Originally Posted by EdFromOttawa View Post
It's not old-fashioned, it's wrong. Percentage filled demonstrates demand. If Winnipeg had a 20,000 seat arena, that would be sold out too based on the current percentage filled. Winnipeg and others also contend with other pro teams in the city. Ottawa does not (yet). It's inexcusable that attendance in Ottawa is the way that it is if it has a so-called 'pro sports scene'.
One factor you might be missing is corporate support every other city has big companys that can give out ticket in Ottawa the feds are not allowed to and thats a big issue.
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  #112  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2014, 4:34 PM
sam2020 sam2020 is offline
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Originally Posted by EdFromOttawa View Post
Are you for real? One pro sports team for a (globally) marginal sport based 45 minutes from downtown Ottawa with the worst attendance of any Canadian team? Between 2005 and Summer 2014 Ottawa had by far the worst pro sports scene of any >750,000 person city in the country. The location of CTC is a joke and there is nothing in the downtown core that would indicate in any way Ottawa plays sports of any kind (no ads, no billboards, no apparel, hell the Sens Store at Rideau closed down).

I concede this summer it will improve astronomically with the Fury and the (appropriately named) Redblacks...but still. Even Calgary and Edmonton have had 3+ pro teams (NHL, CFL, NLL, NASL, IBL) for years and years while Ottawa consistently folded franchises.
To say Ottawa teams fold consistently is a bit strong as for Calgary they have no had a pro soccer team and baseball team for years.
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  #113  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2014, 4:36 PM
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Yes, unfortunately Ottawa is an incredibly boring city where there is a severe lack of anything interesting to do. I attribute this mostly to the fact that it is a government town that attracts risk averse people. It is the antithesis of creative or innovative. People who are interesting, ambitious and curious leave Ottawa as they know how incredibly lame it is. Just look at the real estate. When is the last time that something interesting and different got built? Unfortunate, but just the way it is.
In no way is Ottawa boring there is lots of exciting things as for real estate just look at The Isles it could be one of the most exciting projects in Ontario.
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  #114  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2014, 4:39 PM
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Good for you, you can copy and paste a list. I could do the same for Edmonton, but why? It's a meaningless list of festivals. I have no idea how well attended and important most of these are because it's just a list.

Edmonton is known, at least in Western Canada, as a festival city, not unlike Winnipeg, Toronto, and Montreal and it has a huge roster of well-attended events. I'm not doubting that Ottawa doesn't have great festivals, though.

I get the impression that Ottawa has other assets to fall on (government, museums, bilingualism, the market people don't shut up about ), whereas Edmonton really banks itself on its festivals, especially in the summer, but increasingly in every season. I'm less familiar with Ottawa than Edmonton obviously, but perhaps that and it being sandwiched between two great festival cities gives me the impression that Edmonton exudes more of a festival city persona.
Ottawa is a very big festival city the city has one awards and just last week was named one of the best festivals citys in ont.
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  #115  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2014, 5:54 AM
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What's with the lame list of festivals? Is that what makes a city fun? People say, hey New York is a great city because of the festivals? Or Montreal is so much FUN because of the festivals? 98% of festivals are lame, made for family entertainment or niche audiences. The Blues fest used to be good but now is just an amorphous, pretty lame collection of has-been headliners. Maybe Blue Rodeo will play this year?

What kills Ottawa is the lack of energy. Hopefully the increasing density in the downtown improves this a bit, and I think it has as there are much better restaurants now, but still hard pressed to find a decent bar.

Ottawa in a nice city, but it is definitely not a fun city.
The "lame list of festivals" has been specially designed to attract and expose angry and frustrated newcomers to Ottawa. Those particular newcomers are called "ching-a-ling-a-ding-dings"... Or just "ding-dings", "dings", "dingsters", "dingoramas" or even just "ds". A full-time group of highly trained individuals - all of them university graduates I assure you - then processes the dingsters. They are tagged and categorized according to their dingstometric quotient; this is calculated according to their body type and weight as well as provenance, after which they are tracked and secretly made to experience frustration and enticed to modify their diet; one that will guarantee a respectable level of fatness. Bitter human fat has been proven to be popular among Ottawa foodies... The entire process may take years as the dingoramas are known to toss and turn at night, which enables slow but dense fat growth. Resistance is futile on the part the dings but never discouraged as it has been proven to contribute to a higher level of bitterness to y̶o̶u̶r̶,the meat. In exchange, the ds get a certificate through the mail... in an Ikea frame. You can check out the department of dingsternometry at UofO; the list was a doctoral thesis from one of its students.
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  #116  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2014, 2:52 PM
kevinbottawa kevinbottawa is offline
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Ottawa is a very big festival city the city has one awards and just last week was named one of the best festivals citys in ont.
We were also named a 2013 World Festival and Event City by the International Festivals and Events Association (IFEA).

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The award recipients were selected by an international panel of judges who chose Ottawa as one of seven cities from around the globe that were named World Festival cities for their successful approach to hosting festivals and events.
The same press release says in 2010 we got an IFEA award for Top Event City in North America with a population under 1 million. People just don't know what Ottawa has to offer.
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  #117  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2014, 3:02 PM
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Ottawa is a very big festival city the city has one awards and just last week was named one of the best festivals citys in ont.
One of the things I love about the city is its special events team (SEAT), which was cited in the city's press material around that award.

I've contributed a few things over the years. For seven years I've been organizing the Hintonburg 5k, which is probably the only race in the city featuring Lucky Ron on his porch (I pay him with whiskey), and the Outlaws misting runners. I've also done some things like screen movies in Parkdale Park, including the Dog Movie Night, and Stompin' Tom doc. Each time, dealing with the City around permits has been one of the easiest parts of the job. It's one-stop shopping, and the SEAT staff exercise a ton of common sense. The 5k is actually a fairly big event - I think I close around 30 intersections, have to get cops, it affects OC Transpo, there's health considerations around food. And each time the SEAT staff are a joy to deal with.

When I was with the HCA, we had the same experience for the ARTSPark event as well - though it tends to be a different set of volunteers running that.

All to say, there's a culture at the city of working to facilitate events. I know movie screenings, 5ks and arts exhibits may not float everyone's boat, but those just scratch the surface of what's being held every year. I went to a couple of the consultations on the new by-law, and it was amazing to see who was around the table: organizers of the big festivals, Race Weekend, nuit blanche, all the way to community folks hosting street parties. And now we've got things like the brewers' markets being organized by folks like Beyond the Pale. It's really quite remarkable.

You can make your own fun with a little time and sweat equity. There's a huge capacity in the community of people who are connected with businesses and BIAs who can facilitate things like liquor permits. And if you're tapped into the community, you can always find someone willing to lend a PA system, or safety vests, or who can help with communications, or who knows how to get a SOCAN licence, or who can find a few bucks to hire police.

I think all that's missing to be even more vibrant are people just willing to get the ball rolling. Everything else is out there - all the capacity and resources you need, and a city staff willing to get the bureaucracy out of the way. Want to have more fun stuff to do in Ottawa? Just do it, already. But you're not going to do it alone - reach out and ask for help.
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  #118  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2014, 4:15 PM
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... Ottawa served little purpose before being crowned the capital. It would not have naturally became a large city (by Canadian standards) had it not been crowned as such. There wasn't anything naturally lucrative about the area Ottawa sits on. It was the hinterlands and that's partly why Ottawa was crowned capital.
You need to learn more about the history of the Ottawa Valley before making such statements. The combined population of Bytown/Wrightsville was probably in the 25,000+ before the area was chosen as capital. The whole myth that Ottawa was some sort of worthless hinterland is probably one of the root sources of the "Ottawa is boring" sentiment, perpetuated through the centuries. Even if your definition of fun is the sleazy kind, Ottawa had drunken riots and whorehouses well before it was the capital.

The Voyageurs and the fur trade came through here on their way to and from the West, not the St Lawrence. This was the centre of the timber trade, probably the most lucrative industry in its time. Later, Ottawa had a healthy industrial base independent of being the government centre, we exported streetcars and the first electric stoves.

Edmonton before it became Alberta's Capital was a dinky little depot of 8,000 people. If it weren't crowned as such, it would probably wouldn't have amounted to much either.
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  #119  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2014, 6:50 PM
sam2020 sam2020 is offline
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Originally Posted by kevinbottawa View Post
We were also named a 2013 World Festival and Event City by the International Festivals and Events Association (IFEA).



The same press release says in 2010 we got an IFEA award for Top Event City in North America with a population under 1 million. People just don't know what Ottawa has to offer.
I have talked to so many people they have no clue what the city has to offer its sad.
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  #120  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2014, 8:19 PM
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You need to learn more about the history of the Ottawa Valley before making such statements. The combined population of Bytown/Wrightsville was probably in the 25,000+ before the area was chosen as capital. The whole myth that Ottawa was some sort of worthless hinterland is probably one of the root sources of the "Ottawa is boring" sentiment, perpetuated through the centuries. Even if your definition of fun is the sleazy kind, Ottawa had drunken riots and whorehouses well before it was the capital.

The Voyageurs and the fur trade came through here on their way to and from the West, not the St Lawrence. This was the centre of the timber trade, probably the most lucrative industry in its time. Later, Ottawa had a healthy industrial base independent of being the government centre, we exported streetcars and the first electric stoves.

Edmonton before it became Alberta's Capital was a dinky little depot of 8,000 people. If it weren't crowned as such, it would probably wouldn't have amounted to much either.
Ugh. I had bowed out of this thread until reading the post that elicited Kitchissippi's response.

Yes, funny how Ottawa was founded - and boomed- before becoming a capital, given the distinct lack of festivals when the Scottish and Irish immigrants hopped off the boat to accept their free land, business opportunity and lack of famine.

Downright odd!
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