Waste Management in Ottawa

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

Well, that's simple to answer... Because they all pay the same amount for waste collection as part of their property taxes. The tags would be allocated per home, not per resident. This sets the stage for a secondary market in tag resale. Not unlike carbon credits.

Should we issue tags and only let one kid go to school per household?

There won't be a secondary market. The vast majority of people will simply reduce their output. Some of that is "good" if you think less waste is important. A lot of it is taking or leaving garbage at work or putting small or even large amounts in parks. People in elsewhere say a color photocopy will work. As you can imagine the men throwing garbage into a truck at 7am aren't too concerned that the tag is right.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Should we issue tags and only let one kid go to school per household?

There won't be a secondary market. The vast majority of people will simply reduce their output. Some of that is "good" if you think less waste is important. A lot of it is taking or leaving garbage at work or putting small or even large amounts in parks. People in elsewhere say a color photocopy will work. As you can imagine the men throwing garbage into a truck at 7am aren't too concerned that the tag is right.

This new policy should come with education. From the City of Ottawa:

• Approximately 85% of Ottawa residents in curbside homes use the City’s recycling programs.
• Residents recycle 75% of all blue bin material and 79% of all black bin material that they throw out.
• This means that residents are putting 25% of blue bin and 21% of black bin recyclables in the garbage.
• More than 50% of the City’s waste is made up of material that could be diverted from landfill through the green bin program.
• Program was fully rolled out to curbside households in 2010. Since then, the
• City has collected more than 600,000 tonnes of organics
  Approximately 50% of Ottawa residents use their green bin, and about 1/3 of all multiresidential properties use the green bin

https://ehq-production-canada.s3.ca-...0251bfeda90b0a

If people just used the existing Green Bin and recycling programs to their full potentials, they wouldn't need to dump so many garbage bags.

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

If people just used the existing Green Bin and reculing programs to their full potentials, they wouldn't need to dump so many garbage bags.

Yup, that's why it's a cash grab.

[Richard Eade]

The proposal seems to be one where the city makes money – although the extra cost for start up and administering this scheme will, no doubt, eat up the extra income. The ‘free’ 55 tags work out to about 2.1 items x 26 weeks. This is half of the current average of 4.18 items x 26 weeks that is put out. I suspect that a large portion of families will be above half of the current average, and, thus, will need to spend $3 per extra item. If they can’t change their habits, then they will be saddled with an extra cost of about $162 per year, on average. The current cost per household is a flat $118, paid through property taxes. That flat fee is estimated to increase by $4.50 to cover the cost of the Pay As You Throw – PAYT – program. So, what will be done with all of the other income? If, say, 100,000 households (about ¼ of the number of households in Ottawa) wind up paying an extra $100 a year for tags, then the city is collecting an extra $10M.

Ottawa’s diversion rate is currently sitting at between 50% and 60%. (The Province has mandated 70% diversion.) However, the city is estimating that about 50% of what we put into garbage containers could also be diverted. Thus the proposal for half the current number of items. There is no limit on the number of containers for recyclables or organic waste. The latest waste management plan (from 2011, although a new one is finally being worked on now) had a goal of 90+% of discarded materials being captured for reuse in some form.

If garbage is limited and expensive, and there are no limits on putting out recyclables, why wouldn’t a person simply put more ‘stuff’ into the recycle bins?

I have a neighbour who routinely puts a bunch of plastic bags into their Blue Bin. It is dutifully picked up every two weeks – despite plastic bags not being eligible for recycling in Ottawa. Another item that I often see in Blue Bins are foam meat trays, or other foam items. Such foam items are not supposed to be in the Blue Box, either; they are garbage. Yet, they are thrown into the truck along with proper Blue Bin waste. This is then taken to a building on Stafford Road where it is sorted. The stuff that doesn’t belong gets filtered out and sent to the landfill. In 2018, approximately 10% of the material collected in the Blue and Black Bins was ‘contamination’ that went to Trail Road. The city sells the recyclables that are collected, generating $8.3M in 2018, and $7M in 2020 (since less newsprint is being collected and the market for the fiber is dwindling).

And it doesn’t have to be stuff that is not allowed. Plastic bags are now permitted in the Green Bin, so why wouldn’t someone simply throw all of those little plastic ‘Vegie’ bags from the store into the Green Bin? They just take up space in the garbage bin. The organics-processor, RENEWI (formerly Orgaworld), fishes them out and sends them to landfill. Thus, the landfill still gets the bags, but they don’t count against the household’s limit.

As I see it, those who generate more garbage are going to have to pay more, as they buy expensive tags. Those who can stay within the new limit get no benefit over what they have now. There is no reduction for them on their taxes. Basically, the city should be raking in a windfall.

The thing that bugs me the most is that there seems to be no real plan for dealing with garbage. Sure, there are a bunch of things being done in the name of reducing garbage, but are they real?

For instance, I used to use the plastic grocery bags for my garbage. Usually, one small bag was enough for a week. Basically, I was re-using a ‘single-use’ bag. Then they were not allowed, so I now need to buy dedicated garbage bags. I use them once, when I fill them with garbage. Obviously a much better idea than re-using a grocery bag.

We really need to start getting serious about all the garbage that is generated. We need to reduce it to a minimum; then re-use and recycle as much as possible. The small amount that remains will need to be dealt with in a better way than burying it.

Right now, the city’s great idea is to restrict the amount that goes into landfill by making it more expensive for larger producers. This is not a solution; it is a Band-Aid. Hopefully, the next part of the Solid Waste Master Plan will come out with some real ideas.

[rocketphish]

That's a good analysis, Richard. The one aspect I'd like to comment on is the inclusion of plastic bags and foam meat trays in the blue bin. While the City of Ottawa doesn't want them in there, they ARE readily recyclable, each carrying the recycling symbol. I do this as well (do you live next to me?) because it helps to send a message to the City that they SHOULD be recycling these items too. If everybody continues to just throw these items out with the garbage, then many small contributions of plastic are being invisibly made to the landfill. By having them sorted out at the recycling facility and sent to the landfill as a single major contribution, then the volume of these particular grades of plastic would be very visible to the City, who should be realizing at some point that they need to be diverted as well. Other cities do allow these in their blue bins (eg, Toronto), so we should too.

[J.OT13]

I agree. The City of Ottawa should be expanding it's recycling program. It should also open Gatineau style Écocentres and Centre de transbordement for stuff that doesn't go in any of the bins.

https://www.gatineau.ca/portail/defa...transbordement

The current system of occasional hazardous waste depots a few times a year, it different corners of the City where people have to lineup in cars for half an hour is not sustainable.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

That's a good analysis, Richard. The one aspect I'd like to comment on is the inclusion of plastic bags and foam meat trays in the blue bin. While the City of Ottawa doesn't want them in there, they ARE readily recyclable, each carrying the recycling symbol. I do this as well (do you live next to me?) because it helps to send a message to the City that they SHOULD be recycling these items too. If everybody continues to just throw these items out with the garbage, then many small contributions of plastic are being invisibly made to the landfill. By having them sorted out at the recycling facility and sent to the landfill as a single major contribution, then the volume of these particular grades of plastic would be very visible to the City, who should be realizing at some point that they need to be diverted as well. Other cities do allow these in their blue bins (eg, Toronto), so we should too.

Interesting strategy. You really think send what end up as putrid meant containers to the recycling centre sends a message to the city. I'm not sure about that but I will start doing the same actually. I usually throw them away in the park on my way to work as I don't want to wait two weeks but might start to add to recycle bin. I agree with the good analysis of Richard the bins are an easy way to reduce the amount of bags rather than buy more.

[Spoonsy]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

I do this as well (do you live next to me?) because it helps to send a message to the City that they SHOULD be recycling these items too.

i agree with your sentiment - but plastic bags get captured by a ballistic separator, compressed, and dumped, unless you add billions of plastic bags to the recycling stream requiring additional capital expenditure, not likely to raise eyebrows at city hall. you'd have more impact writing a letter

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

The ‘free’ 55 tags work out to about 2.1 items x 26 weeks. This is half of the current average of 4.18 items x 26 weeks that is put out. I suspect that a large portion of families will be above half of the current average, and, thus, will need to spend $3 per extra item.

the city's slide deck says the current average is 2.1 not 4.18?

https://i.imgur.com/mip456G.png

staff estimate puts 75% of curbside collection serviced households (306,000) at 2 bag or less. 3 baggers are an additional 11% and can probably fit it down to 2 bags easily. you've got 16% at 4 bags or more, and green bin set-out was observed lower in those cohorts - easy to see where the city sees opportunity for waste diversion

https://i.imgur.com/2DS4xcy.png

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

And it doesn’t have to be stuff that is not allowed. Plastic bags are now permitted in the Green Bin, so why wouldn’t someone simply throw all of those little plastic ‘Vegie’ bags from the store into the Green Bin? They just take up space in the garbage bin.

unless you're inflating veggie bags like balloons before trashing them, i can't see them being a major contribution to your 280L bi-weekly garbage allowance to the point where you need to adopt schemes like this

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

For instance, I used to use the plastic grocery bags for my garbage. Usually, one small bag was enough for a week. Basically, I was re-using a ‘single-use’ bag. Then they were not allowed, so I now need to buy dedicated garbage bags. I use them once, when I fill them with garbage. Obviously a much better idea than re-using a grocery bag.

FYI the city does accept plastic grocery bags if they are in a trash can

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

We really need to start getting serious about all the garbage that is generated. We need to reduce it to a minimum; then re-use and recycle as much as possible. The small amount that remains will need to be dealt with in a better way than burying it.

Right now, the city’s great idea is to restrict the amount that goes into landfill by making it more expensive for larger producers. This is not a solution; it is a Band-Aid. Hopefully, the next part of the Solid Waste Master Plan will come out with some real ideas.

i agree but i think the legislation required to effect meaningful change lies in levels above the municipality

[Spoonsy]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Interesting strategy. You really think send what end up as putrid meant containers to the recycling centre sends a message to the city. I'm not sure about that but I will start doing the same actually. I usually throw them away in the park on my way to work as I don't want to wait two weeks but might start to add to recycle bin. I agree with the good analysis of Richard the bins are an easy way to reduce the amount of bags rather than buy more.

why don't you rinse the container at home to prevent the "putrid" state instead of dumping in our local parks?

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Spoonsy

why don't you rinse the container at home to prevent the "putrid" state instead of dumping in our local parks?

Yeah I don't want to. I mean the garbage can in the park to be clear.

So you rinse them and then they smell fine for 12 days? Do you wash them with soap? Is this actually better for the environment than collecting them once a week and burying them?

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Yeah I don't want to. I mean the garbage can in the park to be clear.

So you rinse them and then they smell fine for 12 days? Do you wash them with soap? Is this actually better for the environment than collecting them once a week and burying them?

I rip the gross absorbent pad thing off the meat tray, if there is one, and throw that into the small green bin that's kept in the kitchen under the sink (lined with a small single use plastic bag) along with all the other organics. Then I give the foam tray a quick rinse (no soap) and toss it into the blue bin. No odor, even after 4 weeks.

Pro tip: Throw a handful of used kleenexes, paper towels, or paper from your shredder into every new small green bin bag before you start dumping in the organics. It absorbs a lot of the wet stuff and makes your bag less smelly and icky. Once that small bag gets full, tie it with a knot and lower it gently into your large green bin. You don't want to rip or tear it by dropping it in. If you can keep your bins dry you'll avoid most of the things that people complain about, like odors or flies.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

I rip the gross absorbent pad thing off the meat tray, if there is one, and throw that into the small green bin that's kept in the kitchen under the sink (lined with a small single use plastic bag) along with all the other organics. Then I give the foam tray a quick rinse (no soap) and toss it into the blue bin. No odor, even after 4 weeks.

Pro tip: Throw a handful of used kleenexes, paper towels, or paper from your shredder into every new small green bin bag before you start dumping in the organics. It absorbs a lot of the wet stuff and makes your bag less smelly and icky. Once that small bag gets full, tie it with a knot and lower it gently into your large green bin. You don't want to rip or tear it by dropping it in. If you can keep your bins dry you'll avoid most of the things that people complain about, like odors or flies.

You won't be surprised I don't use a green bin either. It's really shocking that people want to live like this. I guess it makes you feel you're a good person which is worthwhile. I'm not saying you aren't helping in a small way though your time elsewhere could make a bigger difference I'm sure.

[J.OT13]

We have no issues with the green bin with smells (beyond what you'd expect fro your standard garbage) or flies. We use any compostable take out container or paper bag, fill them up and throw them in the Green Bin. Sometimes, we buy the thick paper green bin liners. With these measures, the bin does not get all gross.

We also throw litterely anything comfortable in the Green Bin. Bathroom garbage, it's all kleenexes. Any food, paper, pizza boxes (they are supposed to go Green Bin, not recycling). Our garbage is exclusivly plastic packaging, chip bags and cat litter. That's how we achieve one kitchen bag per couple months.

[Richard Eade]

Hmmm. Now this IS interesting. Thanks for providing this slide:



It makes me think that there might be a fundamental error in the staff recommendation.

The last set-out study that I was aware of was 2018, when

households set-out an average of 1.79 items per week of garbage, 1.07
items per week of blue bin recycling, 1.09 items per week of black bin recycling and 0.40 items
per week of green bin organics.

From: https://pub-ottawa.escribemeetings.c...cumentid=49080

I have added the emphasis on ‘per week’. Something to think about is that the amount of garbage being thrown out is always increasing, and Ottawa’s diversion rate seems to be stalled at about 50%. I can well imagine that the number of items being put out as garbage has increased to 2.1 items per week, over the past few years. I could not imagine it dropping to 2.1 items every two weeks.

The idea of Pay As You Throw (PAYT) is not new for Ottawa and has been floated for several years. A Citizen report from August 12 of 2021 talks about the option of PAYT and contains the following line:

According to the city’s research, the average number of items put out on collection day is 4.18 items or less, and 85 per cent of households put out four items or less.

From: https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...nd-to-the-dump

That 4.18 number was specifically talking about garbage items and, again, I added the bolding of ‘put out on collection day’, since this shows that the number is measured every two weeks, since garbage is collected every two weeks. This number translates to the equivalent of 2.1 items every week. It is improbably that the number of items being put out has exactly halved from 2021 to now, when the diversion rate has not changed appreciably. It is likely, however, that there was confusion between 2.1 items every week and the fact that garbage is only collected every two weeks.

I now believe that the proposal of 55 bag tags being given out for ‘free’ is an error that is based on the confusion of the number of items per week and the number of items per collection day.

I also have a suggestion for the way that the tags will function. Instead of needing to put a tag on every item, or the top item within a container, how about simply accepting up to four items (assuming the 4.18 is the actual average number of items every two weeks) from an address – without the need for any tags. Any items in addition to those four ‘free’ items would need to have tags, or they would be left behind. (Some of you could correct me if I am wrong, but isn’t this basically how the system works in Gatineau?) Such a scheme would require the city to print and distribute far fewer tags, since each household could be given, say 3-5, tags with their waste calendar. It would mean that tags are only needed for exceptional cases, and not every time.

[bartlebooth]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

I rip the gross absorbent pad thing off the meat tray, if there is one, and throw that into the small green bin that's kept in the kitchen under the sink (lined with a small single use plastic bag) along with all the other organics. Then I give the foam tray a quick rinse (no soap) and toss it into the blue bin. No odor, even after 4 weeks.

Pro tip: Throw a handful of used kleenexes, paper towels, or paper from your shredder into every new small green bin bag before you start dumping in the organics. It absorbs a lot of the wet stuff and makes your bag less smelly and icky. Once that small bag gets full, tie it with a knot and lower it gently into your large green bin. You don't want to rip or tear it by dropping it in. If you can keep your bins dry you'll avoid most of the things that people complain about, like odors or flies.

Other pro tip: keep your organic waste in the freezer. Works for us at least. No smell/mess whatsoever. We just put it in our bin the morning of collection. Makes it easy.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

The current system of occasional hazardous waste depots a few times a year, it different corners of the City where people have to lineup in cars for half an hour is not sustainable.

More importantly: IT ISN'T FRIGGING EQUITABLE.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Our garbage is exclusivly plastic packaging, chip bags and cat litter. That's how we achieve one kitchen bag per couple months.

Why don't you greenbin the kitty poo?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Why don't you greenbin the kitty poo?

I didn't think cat litter was allowed. Looking at the rules now, apparently it is now. Thanks!

[le calmar]

I knew about cat litter, it’s been allowed since 2019, but I had no idea foam could go into the blue bin? I always assumed styrofoam was not recyclable.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by le calmar

I knew about cat litter, it’s been allowed since 2019, but I had no idea foam could go into the blue bin? I always assumed styrofoam was not recyclable.

No, stryrofoam is not accepted in Ottawa. In Gatineau, you can bring it to an Eco Centre. It is recyclable, but Ottawa's system is quite limited. Lots of wish-cycling.