750 Pacific Blvd | Plaza of Nations Redevelopment

[s211]

Originally Posted by Feathered Friend

pg 13
https://vancouver.ca/files/cov/750-pacific-blvd.pdf



pg 33
https://vancouver.ca/files/cov/750-pacific-blvd.pdf



https://vancouver.ca/files/cov/750-pacific-blvd.pdf
pg39

Let's repeat that, and let it sink in: $325 MILLION of CACs or equivalents.

[Jimbo604]

https://development.vancouver.ca/750pacific/index.htm

Revised Notification Postcard PDF (74kb) - Updated June 19, 2020
https://development.vancouver.ca/750...bdpostcard.pdf

"The virtual Development Permit Board meeting date has now been scheduled. A decision on this permit application will be made at the meeting on: Tuesday August 4, 2020."

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Changing City

They've secured the money they wanted from this project. They're no doubt still negotiating with Concord, who won't get their rezoning until they put a reasonable offer on the table that reflects the land lift they will gain from their project (with those two viewcone busting towers). Nothing stops this project proceeding in the meantime; the CAC payment sits in a City account earmarked for the infrastructure works whenever they start.

Pardon my ignorance, but how can the developer already paid the $300++ mil when the project is not even officially approved? If that is so, this is considered corruption to the highest degree. If they have this "deposit" sitting comfortably in their account, why wouldn't the project be approved? Let's say, although highly unlikely, that this project is not approved or is scrapped by the developer, would the City need to return the $325mil in question?

Originally Posted by s211

Let's repeat that, and let it sink in: $325 MILLION of CACs or equivalents.

Let's not get too excited here. This money would be wasted on tearing down perfectly good viaducts. It's not like we will get any infrastructure or transportation improvements that will benefit residents, such as having a new streetcar line.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

Pardon my ignorance, but how can the developer already paid the $300++ mil when the project is not even officially approved? If that is so, this is considered corruption to the highest degree. If they have this "deposit" sitting comfortably in their account, why wouldn't the project be approved? Let's say, although highly unlikely, that this project is not approved or is scrapped by the developer, would the City need to return the $325mil in question?

Not a problem - it's at least a two stage process, and in this case it's about 10 stages. Like most major projects in the city, this is a rezoning. The developer was seeking far more space than the land is currently zoned for. As part of a rezoning, the developer offers a package of benefits that generally equates to about 75% of the increase in land value that the rezoning would add. In this case because it's a very big project in a location with relatively low base zoning, and a very high value project proposed, that equates to $325 million. Rezonings are decided by Council - not by staff.

The CAC is usually paid on enactment of the rezoning. Once the rezoning is enacted, then the developer can obtain one, or a series of Development Permits with detailed designs matching any specific requirements that were part of the rezoning. The design might change too. In this case it's evolved slightly, and there might be a total of nine different Development permits as the developer builds in phases, and with different elements being approved separately. These will be approved by senior City staff, not by Council (unless there's a change proposed that doesn't match the approved rezoning).

If the rezoning has been enacted then the developer has paid the CAC, and there's no mechanism to get the money back. But once the land has been rezoned, it has a much higher value, because it can be built with much more development than before it was rezoned. So even if the developer decided to walk away and sell the site, they ought to be able to get the value back from a new owner.

And the $325m doesn't just pay to demolish the viaducts and build the new roads; it also gets a new community centre, childcare, and social housing. It's all been explained earlier in the thread.

[scryer]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Not a problem - it's at least a two stage process, and in this case it's about 10 stages. Like most major projects in the city, this is a rezoning. The developer was seeking far more space than the land is currently zoned for. As part of a rezoning, the developer offers a package of benefits that generally equates to about 75% of the increase in land value that the rezoning would add. In this case because it's a very big project in a location with relatively low base zoning, and a very high value project proposed, that equates to $325 million. Rezonings are decided by Council - not by staff.

The CAC is usually paid on enactment of the rezoning. Once the rezoning is enacted, then the developer can obtain one, or a series of Development Permits with detailed designs matching any specific requirements that were part of the rezoning. The design might change too. In this case it's evolved slightly, and there might be a total of nine different Development permits as the developer builds in phases, and with different elements being approved separately. These will be approved by senior City staff, not by Council (unless there's a change proposed that doesn't match the approved rezoning).

If the rezoning has been enacted then the developer has paid the CAC, and there's no mechanism to get the money back. But once the land has been rezoned, it has a much higher value, because it can be built with much more development than before it was rezoned. So even if the developer decided to walk away and sell the site, they ought to be able to get the value back from a new owner.

And the $325m doesn't just pay to demolish the viaducts and build the new roads; it also gets a new community centre, childcare, and social housing. It's all been explained earlier in the thread.

Thanks for the summary!

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Not a problem - it's at least a two stage process, and in this case it's about 10 stages. Like most major projects in the city, this is a rezoning. The developer was seeking far more space than the land is currently zoned for. As part of a rezoning, the developer offers a package of benefits that generally equates to about 75% of the increase in land value that the rezoning would add. In this case because it's a very big project in a location with relatively low base zoning, and a very high value project proposed, that equates to $325 million. Rezonings are decided by Council - not by staff.

The CAC is usually paid on enactment of the rezoning. Once the rezoning is enacted, then the developer can obtain one, or a series of Development Permits with detailed designs matching any specific requirements that were part of the rezoning. The design might change too. In this case it's evolved slightly, and there might be a total of nine different Development permits as the developer builds in phases, and with different elements being approved separately. These will be approved by senior City staff, not by Council (unless there's a change proposed that doesn't match the approved rezoning).

If the rezoning has been enacted then the developer has paid the CAC, and there's no mechanism to get the money back. But once the land has been rezoned, it has a much higher value, because it can be built with much more development than before it was rezoned. So even if the developer decided to walk away and sell the site, they ought to be able to get the value back from a new owner.

And the $325m doesn't just pay to demolish the viaducts and build the new roads; it also gets a new community centre, childcare, and social housing. It's all been explained earlier in the thread.

The system sure favours the City heavily. It doesn't take the risk and can be reassured a good payout, come what may.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Vin

The system sure favours the City heavily. It doesn't take the risk and can be reassured a good payout, come what may.

As a taxpayer, this is good.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by Vin

The system sure favours the City heavily. It doesn't take the risk and can be reassured a good payout, come what may.

Principles
The following principles for a CAC system were established by the City’s Financing Growth (2004) policy:
 Secure amenities through rezoning to help maintain the livability of the city and its neighbourhoods as redevelopment occurs;
 Provide a fair exchange between the amenities being provided, and the new density (or development rights) being granted, so that desired redevelopment occurs and housing
affordability is maintained;
 Provide consistency and predictability in the application of CAC Policy, so that developers can anticipate the amenity contributions being sought, and community can expect appropriate amenities that meet local needs when rezoning occurs;
 Be consistent with other City policies;
 Be developed with informed input from stakeholders;
 Be separate from other development charge requirements, to ensure there is not double payments being made for amenity items

[urbanflight]

Originally Posted by s211

Let's repeat that, and let it sink in: $325 MILLION of CACs or equivalents.

Originally Posted by Vin

Let's not get too excited here. This money would be wasted on tearing down perfectly good viaducts. It's not like we will get any infrastructure or transportation improvements that will benefit residents, such as having a new streetcar line.

That is not true.

Since the beginning, the principal reason why the viaducts need to be demolished, it's because they represent a great danger since they are seismically deficient.

Besides, tearing it down would generate so much diverse benefits to the city.

Based on technical analysis completed over the past two years, Staff have determined that both viaducts are seismically deficient, as they were designed and constructed to outdated design codes and built on loose soils used to fill the creek in the early 1900’s. In the case of even a moderate earthquake, the viaducts are at significant risk of collapse. In the event of a collapse, nearby buildings could be severely damaged and the fallen structures would block the surface streets below, which include Pacific Boulevard, Expo Boulevard, Abbott Street, Quebec Street and Main Street. Furthermore, the viaducts pass over top of the Expo/Millenium Skytrain line and their collapse would sever this critical transit line which carries approximately 120,000 trips a day to and from the downtown. Lastly, with the planned relocation of St.Paul’s hospital to the False Creek Flats, a collapse of the viaducts would cut off a major access point from the hospital into the downtown where more than 100,000 residents live, more than 150,000 people work, and millions of people visit. It will cost between $50-$65 million dollars to upgrade the viaducts to keep them standing after a moderate earthquake. At this level of upgrade, they would likely not be usable afterwards and may need to be replaced. To fully seismically upgrade to today’s standards, the viaducts would need to be completely rebuilt which would be cost prohibitive.

The viaducts are large elevated concrete structures that cost between 5-10 times the cost of the same roadway built on the ground to maintain. The viaduct structures would result in $8 - $10 million in maintenance costs over the next 15 years on top of the $50-$65 million to upgrade.

With additional network connections and expansion of two-way streets in the proposed replacement street network, there are opportunities to provide new, more direct and intuitive bus routes to serve NEFC and the surrounding communities, this includes the ability to provide future streetcar service.

The replacement network also includes expanded sidewalks and more direct and accessible connections to the downtown on both the Georgia Street and Dunsmuir Street alignments, encouraging walking as a safe and comfortable travel choice.

1. AN IMPROVED TRANSPORTATION NETWORK

The proposed replacement street network represents a significant improvement in overall network connectivity and resilience and when considering the inherent opportunities to provide new transit routes in the study area, and improved walking and cycling infrastructure. A preliminary health impact assessment has been completed, which indicates that the improvements outlined in this report will have positive health outcomes. If approved, staff will engage with Vancouver Coastal Health (VCH) to further assess and improve the design to ensure optimal health outcomes of the project.

he proposed replacement street network includes an integrated protected bike lane network with better connected and more comfortable cycling connections to provide safe, convenient and enjoyable cycling routes which can accommodate the anticipated growth in cyclists volumes in the City.

Notable improvements include the replacement of painted bike lanes on Pacific, Expo and Quebec, with protected bike lanes, and a new path between the seawall and Quebec designed to accommodate commuter cyclists, leaving the seawall for more recreational users, as shown in Figure 6. With improved connections to the Quebec/Ontario bikeway, seawall and

With additional network connections and expansion of two-way streets in the proposed replacement street network, there are opportunities to provide new, more direct and intuitive bus routes to serve NEFC and the surrounding communities, this includes the ability to provide future streetcar service.

The replacement network also includes expanded sidewalks and more direct and accessible connections to the downtown on both the Georgia Street and Dunsmuir Street alignments, encouraging walking as a safe and comfortable travel choice.

https://vancouver.ca/files/cov/2015-...r-Viaducts.pdf

• Video Link

[Vin]

Originally Posted by urbanflight

That is not true.

Since the beginning, the principal reason why the viaducts need to be demolished, it's because they represent a great danger since they are seismically deficient.

Besides, tearing it down would generate so much diverse benefits to the city.

Since you are a pretty new SSP forumer, perhaps you have not been following the discussions (or arguments) regarding the viaduct removal. I also see that you buy into the pitch from the days of Greg Robertson and his lies that the viaducts pose a great danger to everyone, but I will not get into the lengthy arguments here regarding this. I recommend that you read this:

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/opin...-citys-history

If you are still adamant about what you think, please go here:
https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=174625

[GenWhy?]

Went to DP Board yesterday so it's at least a few steps closer. The Plaza is looking mighty sad.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

As a taxpayer, this is good.

Not necessarily. It just breeds the inefficient use of public money, which explains why the City is insolvent now. Also bad for a tax payer if one disagrees with what they want to use with the money.

The extortion of huge CACs from developers, together with other crippling development policies, are also driving away businesses to go elsewhere, as evident by so many large-scale developments outside Vancouver proper.

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

Went to DP Board yesterday so it's at least a few steps closer. The Plaza is looking mighty sad.

Agreed. Been taking way too long.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by urbanflight

That is not true.

Correct. And it's my understanding the "civic facilities, including a community centre, ice rink, music presentation centre and a 69-space childcare facility, are in Phase 2 with the roadworks on Pacific coming much later. I didn't pay attention to when the seawall and plaza would be upgraded as per a specific phase.

[officedweller]

But there will still be an ice rink there...

Canucks abandon partnership for practice rink at Plaza of Nations redevelopment
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/canu...aza-of-nations

[zahav]

Any idea when any of the Plaza redevelopment will actually start? It looks like a DP was issued last year. This redevlopment is so crucial to completing the False Creek area. Does anyone have any info when they plan to start?

[Migrant_Coconut]

Sometime between the end of the travel lockdown and the Half Life 3 launch.

[jollyburger]

Going to UDP

https://vancouver.ca/files/cov/20220427-udp-agenda.pdf

[Feathered Friend]

[Feathered Friend]

Expo Garden’s First Step Forward Earns A Warm Response Despite City Engineer’s Great Failure

750 Pacific Boulevard (DP-2021-00830) – Block A (Phase 1), Expo Gardens (Plaza Of Nations)
I imagine spending seven years locked in a legal battle with your neighbour might make anyone feel colourful, especially if it involved a 10.2-acre waterfront property worth $800 million. Yet, I never expected the Urban Design Panel’s latest review of the Plaza of Nations to start with an applicant team member asking if another individual still worked for that “Concord idiot.” Which is understandable as until that firm moves ahead with their proposal, this development will continue to face challenges.

That’s because their rezoning application is needed to pay for a future street network that would enable the demolition of the Georgia and Dunsmuir Viaducts, and revitalization of Chinatown, and Hogan’s Alley. Several panelists simply couldn’t picture what a direct connection between False Creek and Vancouver’s entertainment district would look like. As one bluntly stated, the treatment of Pacific Boulevard was so far from being a “Great Street,” that they could ramble on for the rest of the night.

https://cityduo.wordpress.com/2022/0...great-failure/

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

it looks like they design towers much taller, and then gave them a buzz cut. not terrible though it seems.

we should keep the viaducts though.