NFL coming to Toronto - Page 6

Highinthesky · #**101** Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 8:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by shreddog

Really????

While I haven't polled the entire country, I certainly have not seen rabid fan support for either the Jays or the Raptors outside of Southern Ontario. Certainly nothing that overshadowed other NBA/MBL teams.

I'd be interested in seeing retail and television stats to back that claim up.

What the hell does a rabid fan base have to do with it? The Blue Jays and Raptors are the only teams from their leagues in Canada. An NFL team in Toronto would be the only NFL team in Canada so how would using Jays and Raptors interest across Canada not be appropriate when trying to determine the same thing for an NFL team?

shreddog · #**102** Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 8:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Highinthesky

... And in regards to all this other talk. Canada is not comparable sports market to U.S. so there is no point in saying the Americans support all levels of sports so Canadians do to. ...

Fair enough, why then would Toronto be a better market for the NFL than say San Antonio?

SHOFEAR · #**103** Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 8:30 PM**

Quote:

No is going to seriously argue that Toronto is not a hockey town yet the Marlies get very poor fan support.

I will. Toronto is a Leafs town.

Highinthesky · #**104** Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 8:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Except that you ARE trying to play in the same league as them. If Canada had its own distinct sports leagues (or most Canadians were content with the CFL as THEIR football league and weren't obsessed with getting gratification they they are ready for the big time from "an entirely different market and culture" as you said so well), then nobody would be posing the question.

No what I have been saying is that there is no suitable case study in Toronto because the CFL is not a comparable product and the Bills in Toronto was more about a poor NFL franchise in Buffalo trying to make quick buck than a meter stick to gauge interest of the NFL in Toronto. The rest of you are complicating it all with all these silly comparison.

shreddog · #**105** Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 8:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Highinthesky

What the hell does a rabid fan base have to do with it? The Blue Jays and Raptors are the only teams from their leagues in Canada. An NFL team in Toronto would be the only NFL team in Canada so how would using Jays and Raptors interest across Canada not be appropriate when trying to determine the same thing for an NFL team?

Can you prove that there is fan interest across Canada for either the Jays or the Raptors?? Perhaps you did not read my statement correctly, once you're out of Southern Ontario, Canadians are no more a fan of the Raptors than the Suns, the Celtics, Nicks, etcs. Ditto for the Jays. OUTSIDE OF TORONTO, most Canadians don't give a rats ass for the Jays - or at least any moreso than any other MLB team.

THUS an NFL team in Toronto will not likely increase interest in the NFL overall in Canada.

The post you quoted asked if there is evidence that fan support for the Jays and Raptors outside of Southern Ontario exceeds that for other MLB and NBA teams. Can you provide this??

Clear enough?

Acajack · #**106** Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 8:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Highinthesky

What is all this beneath talk about? Are you going to seriously try and say that the CFL is on par with the NFL? If you are then there is no point in continuing this discussion because its not going to based on anything substantial.

"If it is not tops* in the world, then it is not worthy of my interest."

Applies to Canadian football, movies, TV shows, etc.

*"Tops" strictly defined as being what people in the United States consider to be "tops", of course.

Highinthesky · #**107** Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 8:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by shreddog

Fair enough, why then would Toronto be a better market for the NFL than say San Antonio?

San Antonio? Please go and quote where I said Toronto would be a better fit than ANY American market! However you will find my posts saying that the CFL and the Bills in Toronto make poor case studies for the NFL in Toronto. Nothing more and nothing less.

Highinthesky · #**108** Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 8:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

"If it is not tops* in the world, then it is not worthy of my interest."

Applies to Canadian football, movies, TV shows, etc.

*"Tops" strictly defined as being what people in the United States consider to be "tops", of course.

Way to put words in my mouth. Please go an quote where I said all this. Actually please go and quote where I said anyting other than the Argos make a poor case study for NFL interest in Toronto.

Acajack · #**109** Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 8:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by shreddog

Can you prove that there is fan interest across Canada for either the Jays or the Raptors?? Perhaps you did not read my statement correctly, once you're out of Southern Ontario, Canadians are no more a fan of the Raptors than the Suns, the Celtics, Nicks, etcs. Ditto for the Jays, OUTSIDE OF TORONTO, most Canadians don't give a rats ass for the Jays - or at least any moreso than any other MLB team. THUS an NFL team in Toronto will not likely increase interest in the NFL overall in Canada. Clear enough?

I can confirm to you that that there are some Raptors and Blue Jays fans in Ottawa and Eastern Ontario, simply because of the fact that these are "Canadian" teams.

However, I can also confirm that the Jays and Raptors do not exist in Quebec, and that's close to one quarter of the country right there. And a Toronto NFL club won't register on the radar in Quebec any more than the Jays and Raptors do.

Acajack · #**110** Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 8:37 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Highinthesky

Way to put words in my mouth. Please go an quote where I said all this. Actually please go and quote where I said anyting other than the Argos make a poor case study for NFL interest in Toronto.

I am not saying you said this. I was describing the attitude that a lot of Canadians seem to have.

Highinthesky · #**111** Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 8:37 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by shreddog

Can you prove that there is fan interest across Canada for either the Jays or the Raptors?? Perhaps you did not read my statement correctly, once you're out of Southern Ontario, Canadians are no more a fan of the Raptors than the Suns, the Celtics, Nicks, etcs. Ditto for the Jays. OUTSIDE OF TORONTO, most Canadians don't give a rats ass for the Jays - or at least any moreso than any other MLB team.

THUS an NFL team in Toronto will not likely increase interest in the NFL overall in Canada.

The post you quoted asked if there is evidence that fan support for the Jays and Raptors outside of Southern Ontario exceeds that for other MLB and NBA teams. Can you provide this??

Clear enough?

lol I'm not going to bother proving to you that there is interest in the Raptors and Blue Jays outside of Southern Ontario. Instead I challenge you to prove that there isn't any. Talk about an absolutely stupid argument.

Highinthesky · #**112** Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 8:41 PM**

Quote:

The post you quoted asked if there is evidence that fan support for the Jays and Raptors outside of Southern Ontario exceeds that for other MLB and NBA teams. Can you provide this??

Uhhh no it didn't. This is what it said.

Quote:

Don't get me wrong - I'm not a Toronto hater and I would love to see an NFL team in Toronto. They would no doubt become "Canada's Team" much like the Blue Jays and the Raptors. I know they would become the team I would cheer for.

isaidso · #**113** Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 8:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by shreddog

Fair enough, why then would Toronto be a better market for the NFL than say San Antonio?

Yep, I'd rather go to Edmonton than Toronto. That's a city that supports football.

Acajack · #**114** Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 8:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Highinthesky

If you do agree that in terms of fielding talent the NFL wins hands down then you cannot in the next line argue that the CFL should used as a direct comparison to the NFL for support in Toronto and be taken seriously..

Of course I don't think the CFL talent level is higher than the NFL's. Do you think people in Omaha, Nebraska think the Cornhuskers could wallop the New England Patriots?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Highinthesky

And in regards to all this other talk. Canada is not comparable sports market to U.S. so there is no point in saying the Americans support all levels of sports so Canadians do to. No is going to seriously argue that Toronto is not a hockey town yet the Marlies get very poor fan support.

It always amazed how in most parts of Canada (with some exceptions) there is such a dramatic drop-off between the top-level of a sport and the next level down. If you transposed American football or basketball behaviours on Toronto with hockey, the Marlies would probably draw 10,000 people per game at least, and none of this would make a dent in the support for the number 1 team, the Leafs.

Highinthesky · #**115** Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 8:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

I am not saying you said this. I was describing the attitude that a lot of Canadians seem to have.

My bad I'm just a little on the defensive here. I would have to agree that there are a lot of Canadians with that mentality based on my experience growing up in the GTA. I however enjoy watching both leagues.

VANRIDERFAN · #**116** Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 8:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by craner

But what else does the NFL have to base it's decision on besides Argos attendance and the Bills in Toronto games ?
Not saying it''s an accurate reflection of how an actual Toronto team would draw in the NFL but I don't see what else an outsider has to go by in terms of actual data.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not a Toronto hater and I would love to see an NFL team in Toronto. They would no doubt become "Canada's Team" much like the Blue Jays and the Raptors. I know they would become the team I would cheer for.

My only concern would be the effect on the Argos and in turn the CFL as I am one of those who enjoy both brands of football.

Out here in the West I would wager that there are more followers of the Twins, Rockies or Mariners than Jays. As for the Raptors, well the NBA is barely on the radar let alone anyone cheering for the Raptors. (in BC the NBA team of choice is the Suns and only because of Steve Nash.

Highinthesky · #**117** Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 8:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by isaidso

Yep, I'd rather go to Edmonton than Toronto. That's a city that supports football.

I'm an Argos fan but I don't like going to Skydome to watch. Instead I go to their games in Hamilton.

Acajack · #**118** Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 8:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Highinthesky

My bad I'm just a little on the defensive here. I would have to agree that there are a lot of Canadians with that mentality based on my experience growing up in the GTA. I however enjoy watching both leagues.

No worries. You are being ganged up on a bit I realize...

Highinthesky · #**119** Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 8:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Of course I don't think the CFL talent level is higher than the NFL's. Do you think people in Omaha, Nebraska think the Cornhuskers could wallop the New England Patriots?

It always amazed how in most parts of Canada (with some exceptions) there is such a dramatic drop-off between the top-level of a sport and the next level down. If you transposed American football or basketball behaviours on Toronto with hockey, the Marlies would probably draw 10,000 people per game at least, and none of this would make a dent in the support for the number 1 team, the Leafs.

Americans are just crazy about their sports and I think its great. Then again some take it too far like the guy in Chicago who fired one of his salesmen because he wore a Packers tie to work on Monday haha

The_Architect · #**120** Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 8:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by isaidso

Exactly, Toronto is not a football town. Toronto doesn’t support football and don’t deserve a storied team like the Argonauts.

Toronto deserves its storied franchise just as much, if not more than Montreal deserves the Als.
You are generalizing, there are plenty of Torontonians who love football as much as the next person, and the only reason they didn't go to the Bills game was because the tickets were way over the top, and an obvious cash-grab.