Gladstone Village [933 Gladstone Ave/1010 Somerset St] | U/C

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Also, public consultation on the Plante Bath addition, which is more of a new recreation complex linked to Plante Bath.

"Gladstone Station".

YES! YES!

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

"Gladstone Station".

YES! YES!

I wish they would have stuck with "Gladstone". Was better when Gladstone was just the name of a street and we had no idea who it was named for.

[originalmuffins]

Originally Posted by yotajoe

Might have to go for a walk and remove the NIMBY signs lol

Place it a picture of it on their community page before recycling that garbage sign lol. What a waste of resources

[originalmuffins]

I love how illogical they are. This is literally an affordable housing project on a massive scale that will provide many units to those who will need it.... like how NIMBY are you going to be when you're even trying to stir up shit for an OCH development. They can live without their grass patch park for a little while because one this is completed, it will add way more to the area and to people looking for a place to live than that grass patch will ever do.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I wish they would have stuck with "Gladstone". Was better when Gladstone was just the name of a street and we had no idea who it was named for.

I don't care if They didn't stick with Gladstone, I'm sticking with Gladstone!

[Spoonsy]

bemoaning the loss of two swampy sports pitches that were closed for like the last two months for "turf rehabilitation" anyway. you can kick a ball to alternate sports fields at adult high school or tom brown or two kicks to laroche

i guess you'd also lose the basketball court which has the worst asphalt in the area anyway, better courts on Elm St and Ev Tremblay

the splash pad and playground adjacent to Plant look unaffected

golden opportunity to elevate two sports pitches from stormwater pond crap status to elite and these non-representative community associations are going to screw it up for the neighbourhood

somebody make it make sense

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by originalmuffins

I love how illogical they are. This is literally an affordable housing project on a massive scale that will provide many units to those who will need it.... like how NIMBY are you going to be when you're even trying to stir up shit for an OCH development. They can live without their grass patch park for a little while because one this is completed, it will add way more to the area and to people looking for a place to live than that grass patch will ever do.

It's more than a patch of grass, unlike Queen Julianna, which is literally a patch of grass. It's two soccer fields and a basketball court. In a community with a high level of residents of Italian heritage, I imagine the soccer fields are used quite often (hence why the area has three, with the Adult High School).

I would understand if the community demanded the new fields be built before construction of the school starts. That would be reasonable. But the opposition seems all over the place and without clear direction.

Originally Posted by Spoonsy

bemoaning the loss of two swampy sports pitches that were closed for like the last two months for "turf rehabilitation" anyway. you can kick a ball to alternate sports fields at adult high school or tom brown or two kicks to laroche

i guess you'd also lose the basketball court which has the worst asphalt in the area anyway, better courts on Elm St and Ev Tremblay

the splash pad and playground adjacent to Plant look unaffected

golden opportunity to elevate two sports pitches from stormwater pond crap status to elite and these non-representative community associations are going to screw it up for the neighbourhood

somebody make it make sense

I'm guessing the field at the Adult High can handle the demand on its own. Tom Brown doesn't have a proper soccer field for organized sports. Laroche is getting kind of far, a 20 minute walk.

For basketball. Elm is 5 minutes, so not too bad, but again, availability. Not sure where Tremblay is (other than VIA Rail area Tremblay).

For sure, it's a good opportunity to build better facilities.

Again, I understand if they would want these new fields built first, but their opposition seems too unfocused for such a simple conclusion.

[Louis-Riel]

Originally Posted by Spoonsy

the nimbys have deployed signs


https://i.imgur.com/VFw6YZC.jpg

qr code links to this letter, text below: https://qrco.de/beBBlP

PROPOSAL TO BUILD OVER PLOUFFE PARK

Summary
Recreation and Real Estate staff at the City of Ottawa are proposing major changes to Plouffe Park , the Plant Recreation Centre, and the lands at 1010 Somerset St. West. These changes include building over most of Plouffe park. These plans were developed without community input and are contrary to the City of Ottawa Official Plan for the neighbourhood.

Background
Starting in 2014, local residents, business owners, land owners, developers, and City staff worked together over seven years to develop the Corso Italia Station District Secondary Plan (CISDSP), balancing the needs and interests of all parties. In February 2021, City Council approved the plan to implement the
agreed vision. This plan sets out to maintain Plouffe Park and add more than one hectare of additional park space in the adjoining 1010 Somerset Lands when it is developed. City staff are now proposing a different plan that does not follow the Official Plan; eliminates Plouffe Park almost immediately; does not provide an additional full one hectare of green space in the 1010 Somerset Lands; and then possibly only 7-10 years in the future.

Critical Issues
● The current concept design issued by the city staff would see most of Plouffe Park paved over for
new buildings and a road; contrary to the Official Plan.
● The plan would see Plouffe Park closed for new construction as early as 2024, without any
replacement park space opening until at least 2030.
● This neighbourhood is slated to see more than 25,000 new residents in the next 10 years.
● This neighbourhood already has the lowest per capita park space in the entire city.
● The survey created by City staff makes no mention that Plouffe Park would be paved over and limits space for real feedback from the community.
Please Take time to go to the Engage Ottawa survey for 1010 Somerset Lands and fill out the form using any space available to express your concerns about any plan which does not follow city plans and policy to preserve all our existing park space.

This information has been prepared by P4X a coalition of 5 community organizations:
Plant Pool Recreation Association;
Dalhousie Community Association;
Hintonburg Community Association;
Recreation Association of Hintonburg;
Somerset West Community Health Centre.

July, 17, 2023

They'll claim that they do not oppose the construction of the school, but the reality is that stalling construction (which they absolutely want) will kill the project. I suggested to P4X that they put pressure on ODCSB to cede Cambridge Street Public School (which is basically empty) to the CEPEO - which has the added advantage of saving taxpayer dollars for everyone and getting a francophone school that is up to standard. Louise Arbour, the temporary school in the area, is in catastrophically bad shape (asbestos, lead in the water, doesn't pass fire inspections). Heard nothing back.

But yeah, they're not against building a school.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Louis-Riel

They'll claim that they do not oppose the construction of the school, but the reality is that stalling construction (which they absolutely want) will kill the project. I suggested to P4X that they put pressure on ODCSB to cede Cambridge Street Public School (which is basically empty) to the CEPEO - which has the added advantage of saving taxpayer dollars for everyone and getting a francophone school that is up to standard. Louise Arbour, the temporary school in the area, is in catastrophically bad shape (asbestos, lead in the water, doesn't pass fire inspections). Heard nothing back.

But yeah, they're not against building a school.

If it’s true that they are closing the park with no replacement until 2030 (and I’m not saying that it is), that would be a legitimate complaint.

[DTcrawler]

I'm sure the city could come back and offer a temporary replacement for the lost soccer fields somewhere on the Gladstone Village site and it would do nothing to quell the NIMBYs. They'd simply shift their focus to another aspect of the proposal.

I still can't believe we give these peoples' nonsense the time of day as if it isn't just the same old drivel again and again. They always follow the same script, something along the lines of, "this goes against the official plan," or "we worked very hard to develop this secondary plan and now it's being ignored". They just tweak their wording slightly to fit the context of the proposal in question, but it doesn't actually have any real meaning. Usually they're talking about how there aren't enough amenities to support new residents. Yet, here we are trying to build new amenities (a school) and now they're opposing that too. Simply put, they just don't want anything built, ever. Hell, I bet they'd rather have the munitions warehouse back because it acted as a bigger buffer between any potential redevelopment.

Would the loss of the soccer fields without a replacement be inconvenient? Yes, but Adult HS' field is just four blocks down Preston. And there's a basketball court two blocks up Preston on Elm. Besides, if a few trees and some dirt existed on the current site of Plouffe Park, and the city proposed razing it to put in some soccer fields, it's a sure bet the community would lose their minds. That's what I mean about their response being meaningless. It's purely reactionary BS.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Louis-Riel

They'll claim that they do not oppose the construction of the school, but the reality is that stalling construction (which they absolutely want) will kill the project. I suggested to P4X that they put pressure on ODCSB to cede Cambridge Street Public School (which is basically empty) to the CEPEO - which has the added advantage of saving taxpayer dollars for everyone and getting a francophone school that is up to standard. Louise Arbour, the temporary school in the area, is in catastrophically bad shape (asbestos, lead in the water, doesn't pass fire inspections). Heard nothing back.

But yeah, they're not against building a school.

Feels a bit like Larga Baffin. They didn't oppose the project, they said, it was about traffic or whatever (on a 6 lane stroad), but really, it was about the occupants of the building.

Are some people still anti-francophones? I didn't think so.

Originally Posted by phil235

If it’s true that they are closing the park with no replacement until 2030 (and I’m not saying that it is), that would be a legitimate complaint.

For sure, and if that's what it was, they would be presenting far more organized and to the point feedback. "This is the one issue, this is the one solution. Can this be done?" But their list of grievances goes off the rails.

[Spoonsy]

changed my dog walking route last week to make some observations. i figured 7, 730pm would be peak weekday usage

last week sunday/monday/tuesday/wednesday, empty field
last week thursday, maybe 6 people playing soccer

friday/saturday i had better things to do but maybe thats when all the sports happen

city should sit a high school student out there to get volunteer hours and measure actual usage

based on my incredibly scientific and reliable 5 days of observation, having trouble seeing this as some great neighbourhood asset whose temporary loss (in the name of future improvement) will tear the fabric of little italy apart. although i don't play fútbol so i will admit i have bias

if they kill this and the giant superheated sea of asphalt surrounding 1010 somerset survives another decade that's 100% a worse environmental outcome

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Spoonsy

changed my dog walking route last week to make some observations. i figured 7, 730pm would be peak weekday usage

last week sunday/monday/tuesday/wednesday, empty field
last week thursday, maybe 6 people playing soccer

friday/saturday i had better things to do but maybe thats when all the sports happen

city should sit a high school student out there to get volunteer hours and measure actual usage

based on my incredibly scientific and reliable 5 days of observation, having trouble seeing this as some great neighbourhood asset whose temporary loss (in the name of future improvement) will tear the fabric of little italy apart. although i don't play fútbol so i will admit i have bias

if they kill this and the giant superheated sea of asphalt surrounding 1010 somerset survives another decade that's 100% a worse environmental outcome

Your observation is more scientific than mine, but my impression is that the park is relatively well-used most of the time. There is the playground that is usually busy, and during the day it is used for programs from the Plant Rec Centre.

It's a rapidly densifying neighbourhood, so I can see the objections to reducing park space in an area with very little alternatives (the adult high is field is not a full alternative to Plouffe Park). Telling somebody with little kids that they don't need to worry because they will have a new park in 7 years is not good enough.

Though I do agree that valid concerns get lost in a sea of generic NIMBY complaints.

[Louis-Riel]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Feels a bit like Larga Baffin. They didn't oppose the project, they said, it was about traffic or whatever (on a 6 lane stroad), but really, it was about the occupants of the building.

Are some people still anti-francophones? I didn't think so.



For sure, and if that's what it was, they would be presenting far more organized and to the point feedback. "This is the one issue, this is the one solution. Can this be done?" But their list of grievances goes off the rails.

I don't think that people are explicitly anti-francophone, and certainly not like it would have been a generation or two ago. But I do think that anti-francophone bias is a massive blindspot. The discourse surrounding Cambridge Street PS is that it is a neighbourhood school and that the local anglos have the right to be able to walk to school. Must be nice. Most francophones who live west of the Rideau Canal have to bus to school. Louise-Arbour, both the dreadful temporary building and the new school that should already be built, was meant to address this issue.

This is partly due to the fact that the government of Ontario (under Wynne) changed the rules so that schools cannot be easily transferred from one board to another. Now boards have to pay fair market value in order to acquire empty/underused schools - which means that taxpayers pay twice for the same school.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Louis-Riel

I don't think that people are explicitly anti-francophone, and certainly not like it would have been a generation or two ago. But I do think that anti-francophone bias is a massive blindspot. The discourse surrounding Cambridge Street PS is that it is a neighbourhood school and that the local anglos have the right to be able to walk to school. Must be nice. Most francophones who live west of the Rideau Canal have to bus to school. Louise-Arbour, both the dreadful temporary building and the new school that should already be built, was meant to address this issue.

This is partly due to the fact that the government of Ontario (under Wynne) changed the rules so that schools cannot be easily transferred from one board to another. Now boards have to pay fair market value in order to acquire empty/underused schools - which means that taxpayers pay twice for the same school.

Yeah, that's the thing. New laws put in by Ford might force them to sell, with other School Boards getting first dibs, but then putting them on the market for developers (skipping over municipalities). I have a feeling that the Boards will ask market to any other Board instead of selling based on the value of the building, since they'll know a developer will come in and pay top dollar.

Seems like a law designed to benefit developers, and not School Boards starved for facilities.

Another policy that looks good on paper, but terrible in practice.

[qprcanada]

Originally Posted by Spoonsy

changed my dog walking route last week to make some observations. i figured 7, 730pm would be peak weekday usage

last week sunday/monday/tuesday/wednesday, empty field
last week thursday, maybe 6 people playing soccer

friday/saturday i had better things to do but maybe thats when all the sports happen

city should sit a high school student out there to get volunteer hours and measure actual usage

based on my incredibly scientific and reliable 5 days of observation, having trouble seeing this as some great neighbourhood asset whose temporary loss (in the name of future improvement) will tear the fabric of little italy apart. although i don't play fútbol so i will admit i have bias

if they kill this and the giant superheated sea of asphalt surrounding 1010 somerset survives another decade that's 100% a worse environmental outcome

The soccer fields had been under repair for reseeding the last couple of months by the city and the clubs that normally use them have been prevented from using them.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Louis-Riel

I don't think that people are explicitly anti-francophone, and certainly not like it would have been a generation or two ago. But I do think that anti-francophone bias is a massive blindspot. The discourse surrounding Cambridge Street PS is that it is a neighbourhood school and that the local anglos have the right to be able to walk to school. Must be nice. Most francophones who live west of the Rideau Canal have to bus to school. Louise-Arbour, both the dreadful temporary building and the new school that should already be built, was meant to address this issue.

This is partly due to the fact that the government of Ontario (under Wynne) changed the rules so that schools cannot be easily transferred from one board to another. Now boards have to pay fair market value in order to acquire empty/underused schools - which means that taxpayers pay twice for the same school.

Your statement seems filled with claims of bias when the facts you present show none. Anglophones should have a right to walk to a neighbourhood school. Francophones can't because there are less of them. In Gatineau it is the reverse. Fair market value doesn't cost the taxpayers anything it just goes from one board to the other. It keeps them from hoarding schools as they get funds they can use elsewhere.

If Francophones schools are more over-crowded it would be from the huge influx of non-francophones and marginal francophones choosing the board (s). With almost all kids in French Immersion it's easy to see why they choose actual French board so often.

[Louis-Riel]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Your statement seems filled with claims of bias when the facts you present show none. Anglophones should have a right to walk to a neighbourhood school. Francophones can't because there are less of them. In Gatineau it is the reverse. Fair market value doesn't cost the taxpayers anything it just goes from one board to the other. It keeps them from hoarding schools as they get funds they can use elsewhere.

If Francophones schools are more over-crowded it would be from the huge influx of non-francophones and marginal francophones choosing the board (s). With almost all kids in French Immersion it's easy to see why they choose actual French board so often.

There aren't fewer francophones in the catchment area. Louise-Arbour is overflowing and Cambridge is (basically) empty. Something like 70 students in a school that can accomodate 350 kids. That, it turns out, would be perfect for the francophone students as the numbers match up. Centennial, not too far, is also not full and could easily accomodate the students from Cambridge. Those are facts. You can find them if you look up ODCSB enrolment data. McNabb could be a full service school again, as can Ottawa tech downtown.

It is true that there are non-francophones in the CEPEO, but I would not characterize it as a "huge influx". I'd like to see your data on that.

Regarding the fair market value, I respectfully disagree. Ontario taxpayers paid for a perfectly good school (Cambridge), it is being underused and should be transferred for a nominal sum. The current system encourages school boards to hoard property - see examples above - rather than making acceptable infrastructure available to students who deserve to learn in a safe environment (see other comment regarding asbestos, lead and fire code).

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Louis-Riel

There aren't fewer francophones in the catchment area. Louise-Arbour is overflowing and Cambridge is (basically) empty. Something like 70 students in a school that can accomodate 350 kids. That, it turns out, would be perfect for the francophone students as the numbers match up. Centennial, not too far, is also not full and could easily accomodate the students from Cambridge. Those are facts. You can find them if you look up ODCSB enrolment data. McNabb could be a full service school again, as can Ottawa tech downtown.

It is true that there are non-francophones in the CEPEO, but I would not characterize it as a "huge influx". I'd like to see your data on that.

Regarding the fair market value, I respectfully disagree. Ontario taxpayers paid for a perfectly good school (Cambridge), it is being underused and should be transferred for a nominal sum. The current system encourages school boards to hoard property - see examples above - rather than making acceptable infrastructure available to students who deserve to learn in a safe environment (see other comment regarding asbestos, lead and fire code).

The board has the right to keep its properties. The two English schools are close but many would fall out of walking distance. That isn't usually possible with the large catchment area but it should be in the English system. The ridiculous Catholic, public split already makes that difficult. The Franchophone catchement area also includes much nicer neighbourhoods which is why the campaign is organized but Francophones are discovering especially in the Ottawa and federal context that they are no longer the equity flavor of the month. The marginalized racialized students who go to these downtown schools will be given priority.

[Spoonsy]

Originally Posted by qprcanada

The soccer fields had been under repair for reseeding the last couple of months by the city and the clubs that normally use them have been prevented from using them.

and yet the earth kept spinning