St. Laurent Shopping Centre

[Acajack]

I have heard that Simons has not been able to come to an agreement with the owners of St. Laurent, and has put plans to expand into the Ottawa market on hold for the moment. I believe the company's focus is now squarely on Western Canada, with new stores already announced for West Edmonton Mall and Winnipeg I think.

[eternallyme]

If they cannot get into St. Laurent, why not try another mall? Problem is, expansion is needed somewhere as there are no large open spaces at any of the major malls.

[kevinbottawa]

Originally Posted by Harley613

Anyone heard anything new? You'd think shovels would be in the ground soon since it's approved...or is this another bayshore-rideau-esque false start?

An article from the Orleans Star dated November 18, 2010 said construction would start within two years. Because the expansion includes major changes to Coventry Rd. I imagine it's not as simple as it would normally be.

[c_speed3108]

No idea when they will start to build this.

On Simons: OpenFile Ottawa did a file (article) on this a while back. They interviewed some people from Simon's corporate office.

The problem they were running into at St Laurent was that the mall (and malls in general) need approval from the large anchor tenants (Sears and Bay in St Laurent's case) to allow a competitor in. Apparently this was becoming a problem for the mall.

Another interesting tid-bit is the Bay at St Laurent has about 80 (yes) years left on it's lease.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

If they cannot get into St. Laurent, why not try another mall? Problem is, expansion is needed somewhere as there are no large open spaces at any of the major malls.

Good question. Bayshore seems to be maxed out on its site, plus it is too far away from most of the Gatineau market and the west end has far fewer francophones compared to the east end Ottawa.

Place d'Orleans could probably find the space, has a lot of francophones locally but it is a bit of a hike from Gatineau.

The two best remaining options if they were to totally give up on St. Laurent would be:

- isn't there an empty building on Rideau St. east of the Rideau Centre that used to be a department store? Maybe they are being scared off because Rideau St. is not particularly "chic" and looks a bit shabby.

- Les Promenades de l'Outaouais could easily find space on its site if it were to build some elevated parking structures. Plus, Les Promenades is looking a lot less slummy and more upscale these days.

Anyway, I have always thought that these were Simons' best two options in the capital region from the very start. Both are superior to St. Laurent in my view.

[c_speed3108]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Good question. Bayshore seems to be maxed out on its site, plus it is too far away from most of the Gatineau market and the west end has far fewer francophones compared to the east end Ottawa.

Place d'Orleans could probably find the space, has a lot of francophones locally but it is a bit of a hike from Gatineau.

The two best remaining options if they were to totally give up on St. Laurent would be:

- isn't there an empty building on Rideau St. east of the Rideau Centre that used to be a department store? Maybe they are being scared off because Rideau St. is not particularly "chic" and looks a bit shabby.

- Les Promenades de l'Outaouais could easily find space on its site if it were to build some elevated parking structures. Plus, Les Promenades is looking a lot less slummy and more upscale these days.

Anyway, I have always thought that these were Simons' best two options in the capital region from the very start. Both are superior to St. Laurent in my view.

All the space on Rideau is owned by Rideau Centre. I would have to imagine if the Bay and Sears are causing headaches at St. Laurent they would at Rideau as well. (possibly not the Bay at Rideau since I think it is separate). I am not familiar with Les Promenades.

The other possibility is with Target taking over the Zellers leases but not converting all to Target stores there might be some locations pop up....although I think so far the only two in Ottawa Target has not expressed interest in are Gloucester Centre and Sparks streets. I doubt Simon's would want either location. Sparks being too small and Gloucester Centre is certainly a tier II mall at best.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by c_speed3108

All the space on Rideau is owned by Rideau Centre. I would have to imagine if the Bay and Sears are causing headaches at St. Laurent they would at Rideau as well. (possibly not the Bay at Rideau since I think it is separate). .

This thing about the Bay and Sears objecting is a bit weird, given that Simons shares a mall either one of these guys (usually both) pretty much everywhere it has locations in Quebec.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by c_speed3108

The other possibility is with Target taking over the Zellers leases but not converting all to Target stores there might be some locations pop up....although I think so far the only two in Ottawa Target has not expressed interest in are Gloucester Centre and Sparks streets. I doubt Simon's would want either location. Sparks being too small and Gloucester Centre is certainly a tier II mall at best.

Yeah, Target will most certainly keep all of the prime spaces.

Note that Target has yet to say anything about the three Gatineau Zellers stores.

One of them is in this recently renovated big box plaza that is right next to Les Promenades and is owned by the same people:
http://www.lesgaleriesgatineau.com/accueil.php

If you look at the picture there is a large vacant space (blue signage front) that a Winners recently moved from, then further down at the very end is a Zellers (red letters). If this Zellers were to close here, it would leave a very big vacant space there.

Certainly large enough for a department store, although not sure if a chain like Simons would want to go without a link to a major mall in this type of suburban location.

I still say that if they go to Gatineau it will be in a new addition onto Les Promenades, which still has a lot of surface parking compared to St. Laurent and Bayshore, and can easily spare some:
http://g.co/maps/pck6

[c_speed3108]

Here is the openfile page I was referring to:

http://ottawa.openfile.ca/ottawa/file/2011/01/when-will-simons-come-ottawa

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

While this may be true, surely the fact that Gatineau has 100 000 more people, has a higher per capita income, and can get a lot of "gravy" from across the river (where close to 1 million affluent people live - including 100 000+ additional francophones on top of all those in Gatineau), makes a Gatineau Simons store every bit as viable if not more than the one in Sherbrooke.

I don't have anything against Ottawa at all, but as I have said before I sure hope Simons is not counting on Gatineau customers to be a bread-and-butter base clientele for an Ottawa store if it doesn't open one in Gatineau as well.

I know Gatineau people and a lot will not go to a Quebec chain's outlet in Ottawa if there is a perception that it has snubbed Gatineau in favour of the rich(er) Ontarians on the other side of the river.

A sad fact but it is true. Trust me.

Not same competive environment in the sector I know, but IKEA is always filled with QC plates when I am there.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Not same competive environment in the sector I know, but IKEA is always filled with QC plates when I am there.

I have noticed that too, but as you yourself mentioned - it's a different situation. There are plenty of stores in Gatineau that sell products similar to Simons'. IKEA on the other hand... not really.

Also, IKEA is a Swedish chain, while Simons is a Quebec chain. It may seem odd but a lot of people (not everyone of course, but a good chunk nonetheless) in Gatineau don't like having to cross to Ottawa for what they perceive to be Quebec "stuff".

[wingman]

Les Ailes de la mode is a prime example of that!

Another thing to remember, is that the Gatinoise will travel to Ottawa to shop, while 99% of Ottawaites will not travel to Gatineau to shop (other than for beer). I think that plays into the decision to have the store in Ottawa rather than Gatineau.

Personally, I think les Promenades would be wise to jump on this if they could. It would help the mall a lot, though as someone said it is looking much much better recently anyway...

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

.......

Also, IKEA is a Swedish chain, while Simons is a Quebec chain. It may seem odd but a lot of people (not everyone of course, but a good chunk nonetheless) in Gatineau don't like having to cross to Ottawa for what they perceive to be Quebec "stuff".

Makes sense - they prefer to buy their Chinese made crap closer to home.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Makes sense - they prefer to buy their Chinese made crap closer to home.

I know, I know...

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by wingman

Les Ailes de la mode is a prime example of that!

Another thing to remember, is that the Gatinoise will travel to Ottawa to shop, while 99% of Ottawaites will not travel to Gatineau to shop (other than for beer). I think that plays into the decision to have the store in Ottawa rather than Gatineau.

You are right that Gatineau people are much more likely to cross the river to shop on the other side... but there are still many Gatinois who go to Ottawa as little as possible. The number of Gatinois who would go to a Simons at St. Laurent is still quite a bit lower than the number who would go to a Simons on the Gatineau side. Simons won't be able to fully "cash in" on the Gatineau market with a store in Ottawa, that's for sure.

You know, probably the best solution for a company like Simons to take full advantage of the Ottawa-Gatineau market would be to have two stores: one on either side of the river. Then everyone could shop within their respective "comfort zones".

[wingman]

Originally Posted by Acajack

You are right that Gatineau people are much more likely to cross the river to shop on the other side... but there are still many Gatinois who go to Ottawa as little as possible. The number of Gatinois who would go to a Simons at St. Laurent is still quite a bit lower than the number who would go to a Simons on the Gatineau side. Simons won't be able to fully "cash in" on the Gatineau market with a store in Ottawa, that's for sure.

You know, probably the best solution for a company like Simons to take full advantage of the Ottawa-Gatineau market would be to have two stores: one on either side of the river. Then everyone could shop within their respective "comfort zones".

Agree 100%, but that will not happen. The Ottawa market is bigger and any excess they get from Gatineau will be considered a bonus.

I am anxious to hear about the next round of Target stores, as that will have a big impact on les Galeries de Gatineau. I.e. potentially huge open space or an expanded Target and almost no open space. Maybe it will have an impact.

Will be nice to see the expansion of the SLSC underway. Been a long time since any of the malls have made major changes.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by wingman

Agree 100%, but that will not happen. The Ottawa market is bigger and any excess they get from Gatineau will be considered a bonus.

I also think *one* Simons store in the Ottawa-Gatineau area is the likely scenario. It is almost certain to be in Ottawa, although there is a small possibility it might end up at Les Promenades. Les Promenades seems to have a really good leasing team these days, and have landed BCBG Max Azria recently, as well as the first Point Zero store in the region that will open soon. Still, it would be a big coup for them to land Simons given that the chain seems to be only focused on the Ottawa side of the river.

I think a second Simons store in Ottawa-Gatineau (likely on the Gatineau side if the first one is in Ottawa) is more of a medium to long term thing.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by wingman

I am anxious to hear about the next round of Target stores, as that will have a big impact on les Galeries de Gatineau. I.e. potentially huge open space or an expanded Target and almost no open space. Maybe it will have an impact.

Indeed. There aren't many chains left out there (big enough to fill the vacant space left by a Winners and a Zellers) that are not already on that stretch of Maloney. Unless the owners split it up into smaller stores...

[reidjr]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Indeed. There aren't many chains left out there (big enough to fill the vacant space left by a Winners and a Zellers) that are not already on that stretch of Maloney. Unless the owners split it up into smaller stores...

Very true but stores could become bigger useing up more space.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by reidjr

Very true but stores could become bigger useing up more space.

I guess, but the only one of the bunch in Les Galeries Gatineau I could see expanding is The Brick...