London Public Transit

[haljackey]

Problem is this city classifies BRT as RT because it has "RT" in there.

No one likes BRT. It might be much cheaper than LRT but the fact is it's just bus service. Sure, there might be some more buses and maybe a bus lane/turn signal here and there, but it's just bus service.

Jump that hurdle and let's invest in LRT from the get-go. The future will thank you.

[Pimpmasterdac]

As much as LRT seems to be the better in the long run, I don't see it coming to fruition. LTC has had to suspend the opening a satellite terminal and are already talking about reducing bus frequency with the city budget coming down.

A problem North-South route would be the downtown core, which already is congested with too much traffic. Rather than an LRT reducing congestion by getting people off buses, which seems to be the premise of LRT, it would only add another element to congestion cars, buses and LRT. People will still need to take buses to get into the core, and asside from having no buses on LRT roads, will add more to the congestion.

As well extending it up Richmond between Oxford to Windemere are serious space constrains that would de facto make Richmond a 2-lane road. Richmond is already hellish to drive along this area, due to few/no turning lanes and the amount of traffic on the road. The other option of expropriation of property along Richmond I sure would be ferociously opposed.

An East-West route would be slightly more feasible, but again this would suggest turning a major artery into a 2-lane + turning road. Oxford is already overcapacity and can't afford to take lanes off. Having a bus that got to major intersections quickly would be more effective to getting people, including myself, to consider taking public transit.

As much as people here seem to hate BRT, I think its a better and cheaper solution in the short term. If the buses are express, stopping only at major intersections/malls, it would certainty help make transit more viable. The major reason I don't ride the bus is that there's a million stops that turn what should be a short ride into an hour long marathon.

[haljackey]

New map: proposed BRT routes in London.

[MolsonExport]

rapid? Western Road? Oxfart? surely you jest.

[Highinthesky]

MOPEs haha great another term to throw in with all the other ones.

I don't know why anyone would be shocked that advertising on public transit in a city like London would be targeting people from that group, how likely is that member of that group make up a large percentage of daily rider? I'd bet not very many.

[MolsonExport]

That map left out the Oxbury mall. How could you forget the Oxbury Mall?

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by MrSlippery519

Agreed that is exactly what we need, there is no reason for something like the second picture.

God I hope an LRT somehow get approved...not holding my breathe though.

Wait, you're hoping the most glacial and indecisive city council in North America is going to approve something worthwhile?

[MrSlippery519]

Originally Posted by Wharn

Wait, you're hoping the most glacial and indecisive city council in North America is going to approve something worthwhile?

Haha one can hope...you are right thought the chances of it happening in our lifetime are likely about 1%.

I also feel a BRT would be pointless in London, especially how some of the proposed drawings look.

[ericlewis91]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

That map left out the Oxbury mall. How could you forget the Oxbury Mall?

that mall is AMAZING! better then masonville and white oaks!

i travel there 3x a day for my shopping needs

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by ericlewis91

that mall is AMAZING! better then masonville and white oaks!

i travel there 3x a day for my shopping needs

Are you in the 75-84 demographic?

[MolsonExport]

^if he was, he would be at Cherryhill Village Mall.

[ericlewis91]

i hope you sensed the sarcasm...

but they do need express routes (from north to south)

with only a few stops on the way

Masonville - UWO - Downtown - ? - White Oaks

[Kokkei Mizu]

Originally Posted by ericlewis91

i hope you sensed the sarcasm...

but they do need express routes (from north to south)

with only a few stops on the way

Masonville - UWO - Downtown - ? - White Oaks

? = Victoria Hospital, probably.

[Pimpmasterdac]

a BRT Route like White Oaks to Maisonville is a practical and realistic form of Rapid Transit. It would actually be used, not cost a great amount, carry a significant amount of people, and most importantly move them quickly!

The time factor was the main reason I stopped taking a bus from home to UWO. When it takes 45+ min to get somewhere I can drive in 15 min, you know Public Transit isn't up to task.

A Route like that, would be a money making one, something that the LTC needs with loss in ridership, and funding from levels of government. Focus on important corridors rather than these special interest milk runs to Lambeth that carry less than a handful of people and surely lose money.

If LTC wants to get people back on the bus after the dip from the strike, bring in Rapid Routes along high density corridors. If they can convince people that bus times will be somewhat comparable to cars then others would consider taking the bus more frequently!

[Simpseatles]

I agree that 2 bus rapid transit lines from north to south would be the best option for the city right now. I don't think the city is growing fast enough, or has the ideal situation for LRT. Waterloo region has multiple downtowns that go in a long north to south stretch, Hamilton stretches out along the lakefront from east to west, while London has 1 downtown surrounded by a fairly even radius of sprawl. Even with this, there are the 2 corridors that could use some type of rapid transit.

The city would benefit from any type of creative transit planning, but light rail is a huge jump for a city that doesn't even have 1 proper freeway going around or through the city!

[GreatTallNorth2]

I spoke to Harold Usher today. He was at White Oaks Mall at a city of London booth (He sits on the LTC board).

After talking to Harold, I can assure everyone here that London has a very unambitious plan for transit. When I talked LRT with him, he said that he won't see it in his lifetime. Although Harold is a supporter of transit, he is more in favour of a piecemeal slow and steady approach to growing the system. BRT will not be real BRT at all either according to his description.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

I spoke to Harold Usher today. He was at White Oaks Mall at a city of London booth (He sits on the LTC board).

After talking to Harold, I can assure everyone here that London has a very unambitious plan for transit. When I talked LRT with him, he said that he won't see it in his lifetime. Although Harold is a supporter of transit, he is more in favour of a piecemeal slow and steady approach to growing the system. BRT will not be real BRT at all either according to his description.

And, my friends, is precisely why young people are fleeing London en masse. Strong public transit is one of the most important things about a city to young people today, something City Council just doesn't get. A visible lack of commitment to transit is often cited by the many people I've known who have left London in the past 4 years, most of which have relocated to Toronto. I am already hearing heavy criticism about London from some of my fellow Fanshawe students who have come from elsewhere, many of whom have condemned the transit system among other things. I personally will be leaving London later this year, for a number of reasons including this laughable approach to public transit.

This is the kind of market research City Council cannot afford to keep ignoring. Whether young people should see public transit as such a high priority is one issue, but the fact is it is a huge issue for them. The keys to the future of London are Western and Fanshawe students, and working people of a similar age. I have long felt alienated from the City of London, and that is a sentiment that was shared by a lot of Western students when I was there. Of course, the City doesn't care what any of us think. Dale Henderson ignoring e-mails from myself and fellow college/university students asking him about his position on transit speaks volumes about what we have elected. Same went for Susan Eagle when I wrote her during the 2009 transit strike.

[ForestryW]

GRT expansion including possibility of more express lines:

As Region of Waterloo council works on the next budget, Grand River Transit is asking for an expansion.

This expansion would include hiring 57 employees and buying an extra 19 buses, and would see new express routes on Fischer-Hallman, and more, reports today's Record.

Council already said OK to the plan in principle in 2010.

The expansion would mean a fare increase and a transit tax increase of $4.1 million in 2011 -- that tax is currently at $44 million.

http://www.570news.com/radio/570news/article/177253--a-bigger-grt-bigger-costs

If this is all it takes to expand bus service shouldn't it be just as easy in London? City hall needs to change from a "no" council to a "yes" council.

[manny_santos]

I was just looking at the website for Kingston Transit. They are ahead of London - not only are their cash fares $2.25, but they offer multi-ride cards similar to New York City (This also puts them ahead of the TTC). Their service also includes a route to Amherstview - which is not only outside Kingston but in another county. Considering Kingston's size it looks like they have a decent transit system.

Imagine if London Transit had a route to St. Thomas or even Dorchester.

[Simpseatles]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

Imagine if London Transit had a route to St. Thomas or even Dorchester.

Yes, that would be great! This would help to create a more connected metro area. The world doesn't end south of the 401, or east of VMP, and there are growing bedroom communities all around the city.