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  #101  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2009, 9:29 PM
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Originally Posted by DowntownWpg View Post
So is Winnipeg, a close second... moved up one spot from last year.

Yesterday, I stopped by here with anticipation of reading all the desperate excuses about the Macleans article. However, that didn't come up. At the same time, some were gushing over the TorStar article about spas, French restaurants, and mini donughts at The Forks.

Some Torontonian may have read the TorStar article about Winnipeg, thought for a second "maybe I'll take a trip to the 'Peg and bask in the metrosexual greatness that it has apparently become." However, then he read the Macleans article and forgot all about the fabulous tales of lavish Pea and Duck soup.

As per usual, the positive stories of Winnipeg will be drastically overshadowed by our rampant crime problem. Not many from elsewhere in Canada (and especially in Winnipeg, for that matter) wears blinders to only see the few positives. Yet, for some, the need to impress outsiders has become a monomaniacal, yet futile obsession.
It's true. We shouldn't encourage anyone to come here. I mean, gosh if Tonrontonians realized that their chances of getting murdered went up from 0.00002 to 0.00004, they would be shaking in their boots!
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  #102  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2009, 10:00 PM
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It's not just murder, but it's also based on events such as muggings and assaults (including sexual assaults), etc.
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  #103  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2009, 10:10 PM
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I got no beef, but do you have a resolution or are you just venting?
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  #104  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2009, 10:26 PM
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Actually, I'm just trying to help some of you guys out... believe it or not. Many smart people on here, but the ideas on what Winnipeg needs to become a better city with an improved reputation is often out-of-touch, or unrealistic. I don't subscribe to the concept of pushing the problem around, or of window dressing to hide it... why not address the problems, head on (and, indeed, there are initiatives that can be taken by the city, the prov, and the feds).

Crime prevention, specifically. We need to inspire kids to remain in school, and provide the idea that there is hope for their future, rather than a certain future of desperation and poverty. What's the point of them in even trying to be 'upstanding citizens' if all they see is despair. The cycle of poor parenting which leads to children becoming remarkably 'messed-up' individuals also must be addressed, again through mentorship and positive parenting programs; and if that fails, Child & Family Services. Part of this will come when the parents themselves have found a better future than what they would have otherwise been handed. Community outreach initiatives is another important aspect, kids need a safe place to go where they can also connect with valuable mentorship.

Long term solutions, granted, but let’s do more now.

Let us not forget that what I have mentioned has a lot to do with either the province, or the city (depending on the item)... we can't just lay such issues at the feet of the feds. That's a lazy attitude.

Thanks for asking, wish I had more time, as I could go on... but I've gotta run now.

Last edited by DowntownWpg; Mar 6, 2009 at 10:40 PM.
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  #105  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2009, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by DowntownWpg View Post


It's not just murder, but it's also based on events such as muggings and assaults (including sexual assaults), etc.
Agreed, but provide me the stats per 100k on those crimes between major cities, and I'll show you again just how retarded these comparisons are.

I agree to some extent the stats don't lie, and yes there is more crime on per-capita basis here in Winnipeg, but how these stats actually effect people in their everyday lives? That's open for interpretation. Obviously you have settled on one side, me on the other.

Hey, if you buy two lottery tickets, does your chances of winning actually change? No, it goes from .00000001 to .00000002. Same goes with these stats. For the same reason you are throwing money away buying anything over 1 lottery ticket for the 649, well the same rational can be used for people who, based on these types of comparisons feel "safer" in Toronto, or Vancouver, or Calgary, or Edmonton, or (insert Canadian city here).
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  #106  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2009, 12:36 AM
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The whole thing is stupid. There are dysfunctional populations and dangerous areas in most Canadian cities. Visitors and most normal residents rarely go near them and are almost entirely unaffected by them. All that this is measuring is the proportion of the city and residents that are in that unfortunate condition. That's not an unimportant statistic but it's not very relevant to anyone's safety.

You have to compare apples to apples. What would make a difference would be if there were a big difference between how safe you were at the Forks as opposed to Harbourfront, or at Polo Park as opposed to Yorkdale, or outside the MTS Centre after a game as opposed to outside the ACC, or in the concourse at Portage and Main at noontime as opposed to the concourse at King and Bay at noontime, or at a club in the Exchange District as opposed to a club in Toronto's Entertainment District. In none of these cases is there much of a difference, I don't think. You're probably about as safe on Stella Avenue as you are around one of North York's tenement complexes, as well.
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  #107  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2009, 2:18 AM
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I'm not sure what more Winnipeg can do to address the concerns that DowntownWpg brings up.

It's no secret what Winnipeg, Regina, Saskatoon and Edmonton all have in common.

We all have ring side seats for the dysfunctional mess we call Indian and Northern Affairs Canada.

I guess a good start is getting that agency out of Ottawa and bringing it to a place like Winnipeg where these civil servants can actually meet the constituents they are supposedly trying help.

Beyond that, i'm skeptical of MacLeans. I mean of course some bedroom community outside of Toronto is going to be the safest place.

It's apples and oranges to compare Winnipeg to Sleepy Hollow Ontario.

What if U.S.A Today compared Chicago's crime rate to that of Grand Forks and then used their findings to run a front page spread? What kind of fair and balanced journalism would that be?

A lot of this crime is between people who are known to each other. On any given day the chances of you being randomly assaulted walking down Portage Ave. are miniscule.

It's not like there's a snipper randomly picking people off from the roof of the Richardson Building.

I've lived in Winnipeg my whole life and spend at least a part of each day downtown or walking around somewhere else in the Inner City, and aside from my car being stolen once nothing has ever happened to me.
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Last edited by Only The Lonely..; Mar 7, 2009 at 3:10 AM.
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  #108  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2009, 2:29 AM
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Winnipeg fights dangerous-city label

By: James Turner | Winnipeg Free Press - March 6, 2009

WINNIPEG being tarred by Maclean's magazine as the second-most dangerous city in Canada based on old statistics isn't sitting well with Mayor Sam Katz or a city crime expert who claims it's just a marketing ploy.

Basing its rankings on Statistics Canada per-capita crime stats from 2007, Maclean's claims Saskatoon is the most dangerous city in the country, with Winnipeg, Regina, Prince George, B.C. and Edmonton following behind.

The magazine gave Saskatoon an overall crime score of 163.23 "as a percentage difference from the national rate."

Winnipeg's crime score was 152.98 per cent, followed by Regina (135.74 per cent), Prince George (126.95 per cent) and Edmonton (110.36 per cent).

Caledon, Ont. was named the safest city, followed by Oromocto, N.B.; Levis, Que.; Maskoutains MRC, Que.; and Halton Region, Ont.

Digging deeper into the almost two-year-old numbers, however, the reality is that Winnipeg's ranking as a top-three dangerous place is skewed by how Statistics Canada reports data on auto thefts and the types of crime chosen to make up the survey.

University of Manitoba criminologist Rick Linden said the Maclean's ranking is simply a ploy to hawk magazines. "It's Maclean's marketing," Linden said, adding he feels the six categories the magazine chose to include to rank cities on an index was an "arbitrary" decision.

Looking at Winnipeg's total of violent crimes against persons tallied by the magazine - perhaps a more accurate reflection of real danger -- we rank 9th in the country for aggravated assaults, 11th for sexual assaults and an ever-troubling third for homicides within city limits.

The majority of actual homicides, however are unpredictable, unpremeditated events often influenced by drug and alcohol consumption.

Winnipeg's #2 ranking also has a great deal to do with a long-term policy by Statistics Canada to blend actual and attempted auto theft numbers into one.

By doing so, Winnipeg's auto-theft rate is a staggering 323.72 per cent above the national average, Maclean's says.

Because of this, the overall picture of crime in the city ramps steeply upward.

Auto-theft investigators and city criminologists have long called for Statistics Canada to separate the auto theft numbers in order to paint a more accurate picture.

While Winnipeg police wouldn't comment on the Maclean's ranking, the supervising sergeant of the stolen auto unit said Thursday that car theft in the city is at an all-time low.

"We've seen reductions now for 28 straight months compared to the previous year," Sgt. Doug Safioles said. Winnipeg's worst year for auto theft was in 2004. Since the introduction of the Winnipeg Auto Theft Suppression Strategy in 2005, the numbers have been steadily dropping.


In comparison, in 2006 Winnipeg saw an average of 23 actual thefts and 15 attempts per day, he said.

Katz said Thursday that he wouldn't say it was right or wrong how Maclean's chose to arrive at their conclusions. "I think that there would be many who would say that it is not," Katz said.

"The bottom line for me as mayor is that we have work to do," he said.

Katz pointed to a recent Maclean's article that lauded the city for making great strides in attacking crime.

"And we are making significant strides," he said. "We're seeing good things happening."

[email protected]

-- with file from Canwest News Services
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  #109  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2009, 2:35 AM
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I'm reminded now of why I seldom read the Free Press comments..

Can you believe this guy gets to vote..?

Scary.

Quote:
Katz should fix the problem, rather than complaining it doesn't exist. See the article in today's Free Press entitled, "18 new towers for downtown?" for a clear explanation of why Winnipeg is so dangerous compared with healthy growing Canadian cities. Compared with healthy growing cities, Winnipeg is far more urbanist. City council fudges laws and taxes to force people downtown, into the hands of criminals. Look at the HSC. We force Winnipeg's sickest people to go to a high crime neighbourhood. How cruel of us all. We can be thankful Macleans still considers Winnipeg a major city.

Posted by: Chuck W | March 6, 2009 at 9:29 AM
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  #110  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2009, 3:49 AM
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That's priceless. Of course everyone knows healthy growing cities don't have skyscrapers or people living downtown. What are your planners thinking?
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  #111  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2009, 5:57 AM
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Thunder Bay's hospital is in the bush and our crime rate is just as high.
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  #112  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2009, 6:27 AM
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I'm confused Thunder Bay has a hosipital??? Or do you mean when someone is sick in Thunder Bay you send them out to the bush.
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  #113  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2009, 6:48 AM
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We have a hospital. The hospital is located on the edge of town. That way when you're sick and dying, you get to enjoy a nice 30 minute trip to nowhere.

We used to have a hospital in each downtown.
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  #114  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2009, 3:39 PM
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So I was discussing this article with someone yesterday and I came to the decisioun that it is biased and just gives the city a bad name. Only pockets in these cities boast high crime levels, for Saskatoon, the d/t is not included in that. I feel very safe walking around d/t during any hour. Having lived in Calgary I know what crime is like. Saskatoon has nothing compared to that, a day after I moved back to Saskatoon someone was murdered outside of my building in a random drive by shooting (which was d/t). As well walking along the river at night I myself have been in VERY difficult situations where I could have been the victim. Overall I think they look at this from a citywide approach when it is just a few neighbourhoods. Cities such as Vancouver, Calgary and well I'm not to sure about TO and Montreal but I feel they have much larger chronic crime issues then we do. This reply is a bit of a mash of information and my feelings but it is very frustrating to see someone point fingers at issues when they don't even have their sh$# together!
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  #115  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2009, 4:45 PM
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Some of you guys simply do not understand what aggregate statistics are.

Last edited by DowntownWpg; Mar 7, 2009 at 6:03 PM.
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  #116  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2009, 4:59 PM
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not this descusion again...

all our problems we have now all lead back to the 1990's and earl 00's
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  #117  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2009, 4:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Only The Lonely.. View Post
Winnipeg fights dangerous-city label

By: James Turner | Winnipeg Free Press - March 6, 2009

WINNIPEG being tarred by Maclean's magazine as the second-most dangerous city in Canada based on old statistics isn't sitting well with Mayor Sam Katz or a city crime expert who claims it's just a marketing ploy.

Basing its rankings on Statistics Canada per-capita crime stats from 2007, Maclean's claims Saskatoon is the most dangerous city in the country, with Winnipeg, Regina, Prince George, B.C. and Edmonton following behind.
Why are auto thefts considered in the same boat as violent crimes?? Unless the person is "car-jacked" violently this stat should not be included... They might as well include shoplifting stats from 7-11... !!

What a joke Maclean's is.

I am much more worried walking downtown Calgary at night these days than I ever would be anywhere in Winnipeg..
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  #118  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2009, 2:59 AM
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With this being done every year, you would think that people would get over it and figure out that landing in the top 5 in multiple consecutive years is a trend that no bias can create for you. It's time to realize that something isn't right, no matter how you spin it. Fix it and watch your city fall down the rankings.
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  #119  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2009, 3:43 AM
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With this being done every year, you would think that people would get over it and figure out that landing in the top 5 in multiple consecutive years is a trend that no bias can create for you. It's time to realize that something isn't right, no matter how you spin it. Fix it and watch your city fall down the rankings.
But that's the problem. It can't be fixed. At least not overnight.

Until INAC gets overhauled and the way we deal with First Nations changes, Winnipeg and its prairie cousins will always share this distinction.
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  #120  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2009, 3:52 AM
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But that's the problem. It can't be fixed. At least not overnight.

Until INAC gets overhauled and the way we deal with First Nations changes, Winnipeg and its prairie cousins will always share this distinction.
Well maybe if people would stop fighting ever advancement that First Nations make, or every opportunity given to them, they might be able to have some pride and dig themselves out. But, as long as people keep attacking their culture, bands, urban reserves and other forms of growth and development. It will never fix itself.

Stand back, give them the help they need and watch them succeed.
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