Centre Mall -> The Centre on Barton

[fastcarsfreedom]

I find the most recent parts of this discourse puzzling. Firstly, I don't really see how government has given developers "free reign" to sully our otherwise pristine society. Secondly, I still sense a great deal of negativity even after the decision was made to reduce parking and create more of a streetwall--something the urbanist movement has been clamoring for.

Personally I hope that the smaller, independent shops that are moving out into the surrounding neighborhood absolutely thrive. If they are well-run businesses with established clientele it shouldn't be difficult for them...particularly those lucky enough to find their way to Ottawa Street, which already has great foot traffic--and soon, an outdoor market. Personally I can't think of a better place for the market than the vibrant urban neighborhood that Ottawa Street is.

While I have some sympathy for folks who are forced to relocate their businesses because of the redevelopment (especially the few with a long history at the mall--the loss of Jim's Nut Shack is tragic...)--the majority of the small independents with reasonable rents are in the mall because large, national retailers vacated the premises years ago. In the mid-80s when Cadillac Fairview bought the mall, it was running full-tilt with Sears, Robinsons and the expansion anchored by Kmart. The corridors were dominated by the types of retailers you now see at Lime Ridge, Eastgate, Burlington and Mapleview. The food court was packed. Times changed, demographics changed, the neighborhood changed, shopping habits changed. What was once a full-line department store (Robinsons) became Zellers, Kmart left and remained mostly vacant, the food court sputtered--finally the entire 1980s expansion was erased--sealed off. As a regional shopping centre, the property faltered. Though I can appreciate it's "homey" neighborhood feel--that atmosphere was a product of the property's failure, and not something intrinsic. While not everyone may appreciate the nature of this development, or they types of buildings and businesses it will bring to the site--it's a massive vote of confidence in the city and the neighborhood by Redcliff--and the only tangible investment in the property in over 20 years.

[raisethehammer]

I don't live in that area, but you make a good point fastcars - folks who live there sound quite upset to be losing this mall. I remember going in as a kid all the time, but in the past decade I've probably been 2 or 3 times. Granted, I might only go to the new format place 2 or 3 times in the next decade, but I realize that many folks in society like this new type of development about to be built.
I'm guessing that in a few years from now there will be more shoppers on-site than has been seen in quite a few years. I'll still happily be on Ottawa st, but I fully expect this new development to be a 'success' in terms of bringing more people to the mall (or whatever it'll be called - anyone know the new name??)
As for not noticing the free reign government has given to private business in N.America I'd kindly suggest you examine everything from hiring/firing policies to health benefits to child labour to origin of product line (good luck finding anything made by N.American workers) etc..... anything goes if it'll make a buck.

[fastcarsfreedom]

The two things that I am eager to hear are a name...and...call me crazy, but I hope the steel triple-archway which is at the entrance is saved--it dates all the way back to the days of the place being an open-air centre. The Centre's official name is/was the Greater Hamilton Shopping Centre (even check out Sears literature--they still refer to it by the full name, always have)...some version of that would be nice...even just "The Centre" which everyone generally calls it anyway. I hope it thrives, and in some respects, acts as an "anchor" of sorts for a reborn Barton/Ottawa area.

I'm guessing by the frequent use of the name "Loblaws" that it's a fait-accompli that this will be a Real Canadian Superstore as opposed to a Fortinos. It seems Loblaws is putting their eggs in the RCSS basket as far as growth goes--and someday you may see some Fortinos format stores get the conversion job. It's a complex story, but Loblaws' deal with the UFCW allows non-grocery workers at RCSS to make a far lower wage than those on the food side--essentially it's a "combat" against Wal*Mart's Supercentre format.

While we might disagree to an extent on the degree to which the government has given business "free reign"--I will loudly protest issues of trade inequity--it takes work/effort to find certain things that are made domestically...I'll happily buy items that at least originate within NAFTA...but it's tough--especially with apparel. As a strong supporter of the domestic auto industry--I have seen the damage that "one-way" free trade with places like Japan and Korea have done.

[raisethehammer]

you're almost there...here's the next logical question - why is it so hard to find items that are made domestically? manufacturers/private business et all, realized that they could save a boatload of money by hiring 12 year old girls in indonesia for 10 cents a shirt to make their stuff. You're probably more familiar with the terms 'outsourcing' or 'offshoring' of N.American jobs.

I'm with you 100% regarding the Centre Mall archways. I went by yesterday to see the new Farmers Market location (temporary one) and was looking at those arches, hoping that they save them and light them up at night like they originally were.

[markbarbera]

Press release from Ellis Don website:

Centre Mall Redevelopment - Hamilton, Ontario
Released January 14, 2008



EllisDon has been awarded the $70 million Construction Management contract for the Centre Mall redevelopment.

This project involves the demolition of the existing Centre Mall, and the construction of 24 stand alone retail buildings around the perimeter of the property. The combined square footage of retail space will be 695,000 square feet once completed. One of the challenges with this project is the installation of new site services, as the existing systems to the mall must be maintained during early stages of construction. A new high voltage duct bank will be installed around the perimeter of the site, and the existing storm/sanitary lines will be removed and reconfigured. The existing parking lot will be pulverized, and new curb, sidewalk and landscaping will also be installed.

Major components of the project are 4 banks to be built, as well as pad preparations for three large anchor tenants (each building is in excess of 100,000 square feet). As Construction Manager, EllisDon will be coordinating with other general contractors on the anchor units.

The schedule for construction is from September 2007 through October 2009.

[raisethehammer]

nice find.
can anyone enlarge that picture??

[markbarbera]

here is a slightly larger version:

[go_leafs_go02]

construction was to begin in september last year. Is that the case?

[raisethehammer]

yup...well, so far it's demolition, but it looks like the first bit of new construction is set to go at the Zellers site.
They've demo'd at least 2 buildings since September as far as I can tell.

[raisethehammer]

boy, that image above shows how much space we waste for cars these days.
incredible.
Good thing Westdale Village was built already before we entered this crazy car-only era.

[go_leafs_go02]

oh ok. Yeah I don't have a car, I've driven down barton street once, and that was in October. I noticed the zellers and all that, but that was it.

I don't go much anywhere besides Meadowlands, Mohawk College, and downtown in this city.

[raisethehammer]

bro, you need to get out a little!

[matt602]

Well thankfully the parking space is kept on the inside, with the stores providing a streetwall to block it. Looks pretty good actually.

[the dude]

well, it's the least they could do...

[DC83]

Originally Posted by markbarbera

here is a slightly larger version:

The streetwall aspect of the project seems good. But DAMN that's a lot of parking. I'm sure this still isn't the final rendering?

The only concern I have (and I know I'll be heckled for it) is that it seems as though the store's entrances face inside the parking lot rather than facing the street-front. The trees seem to line the street with that one store at the corner with a corner entrance.
But knowing this city, it'll prolly allow that store (Shoppers?) to add a DOOR to the corner... then stick display racks infront of it so no one can use it like they did on Concession! hahaha

But that aside, it is a MUCH better draft than the original :s AND a street-wall will finally exist along this part of Barton... which is a good thing!

Great Find, Mark!!!

EDIT: re: Shoppers comment. That bldg on the corner in that render is actually a TD Bank (I believe). Correct me if I'm wrong.

[block43]

I bet the doors facing the streets will have signs on them saying "please use door on otherside of building". I've seen it alot in the states.

[DC83]

Originally Posted by block43

I bet the doors facing the streets will have signs on them saying "please use door on otherside of building". I've seen it alot in the states.

... exactly what the Shopper's at Concession / Upp. Wentworth says.
Then they placed display racks infront of the door so no one could possibly use it.

[block43]

It makes me sick.

[DC83]

Originally Posted by block43

It makes me sick.

What does? Shopper's on Concession or this new Centre Mall plan?
(or both)?

[block43]

That stores attempt an "urban format" then block off the door to the street and ask everyone to use the autocentric entrance off the parking lot.