Highways In Canada II

[libtard]

Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout

I turn 40 this year and I've never owned a car.

Am I still a man?!

Calm down with the fake outrage

[Nite]

Originally Posted by ericmacm

I wouldn’t be so mad about a statement like this if the feds had a concrete plan to roll out actual high-speed rail and expand rapid transit into the smaller metro areas of the country. They obviously don’t, though, so I cannot possibly figure out why someone would willingly come out and make such a braindead announcement like this.

Our road network is still very far away from complete or even reliable, especially for roads like BC Highway 1, where the feds are literally the ones that have to complete the twinning on a large portion of the highway.

No other federal government has spent as much on transit than the current government. why do you think every major city in this country is on their largest transit expansions ever all at this time??
With the increasing weight and of vehicles and more so with electric vehicles, the maintenance cost of new roads will explored in the coming years.
you are just wasting billions if you decided to expand the road network under these circumstances.

When the Ontario government had downloaded the gardiner to the city of Toronto, it was driving the city broke trying to maintain it. this will be the fate of most suburban communities when their road networks reach the end of life and they don't have room to expand anymore and can't generate enough revenue to fix their existing roads.

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout

I turn 40 this year and I've never owned a car.

Am I still a man?!

I am turning 50 this year (I win ! ) and I've never owned a car. I haven't had a driving license in more than 20 years.

[Metro-One]

So does that mean twinning of the #1 through BC, in particular the national parks is dead?

What about the laughably bad 97 through the Okanagan?

What about the now 4 billion dollar plus Massey tunnel replacement project in Vancouver?

Are these all just in the province now?

Seriously, fuck the Liberal government. I’m tired of their virtue signaling bullshit.

At least they said this while announcing a massive regional rail program in Southern BC, including Whistler to Chilliwack, Victoria to Campbell River, and Kamloops to Osoyoos.

Oh, wait, that would actually take vision and real action.

[Nouvellecosse]

I think it comes down to what they mean by "large". If they just mean high capacity (ie multi-lane expressways) then that's one thing. But it's another if they include normal "basic connectivity" roads. Probably best to wait for more detail before having a melt down. Find out which specific current or future projects will be affected.

Also, making major announcements about current or future spending priorities is not virtue signaling (assuming it's an actual policy change). Every government does things that reflect its values with the hopes that like-minded voters will see and appreciate what it's doing. But virtue signaling is symbolism that lacks substantive content. Flag waving, renaming things, new holidays/events, or in the US case endless culture war stuff. Like if they renamed Environment Canada to Environment and Climate Change Canada without making any substantive policy or funding change (I can't recall if there was accompanying substance). Or when Harper planned this big "Victims of Communism" monument. Or when he eliminated certain questions from the census which did have harms he didn't anticipate (or care about), but little to now benefit relative to the attention it garnered. In this case, there's no reason to assume they aren't motivated by sincerely held environmental and fiscal concerns whether or not one agrees with the approach they're taking.

[craner]

So why would the Environment Minister make an announcement like this? Shouldn’t it be the Minister Transportation & Infrastructure? Is Cabinet & the PM all on-board with this? It doesn’t sound like it (thank god).

[manny_santos]

You know you’ve screwed up when both the NDP premier of BC and Alberta’s premier are condemning the comments. (Both David Eby and Danielle Smith made statements against Guilbeault’s comments)

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by craner

So why would the Environment Minister make an announcement like this? Shouldn’t it be the Minister Transportation & Infrastructure? Is Cabinet & the PM all in-board with this? It doesn’t sound like it thank god.

Transportation accounts for a big chunk of GHG emissions. Seems like pretty much anything related to the environment would also fall under at least one other ministry. A carbon tax would also related to the Ministery of Finance and/or Ministery of National Revenue. Pipelines and fossil fuel projects would be relevant to the Ministery of Energy and Natural Resources as would forestry, etc.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Nite

No other federal government has spent as much on transit than the current government. why do you think every major city in this country is on their largest transit expansions ever all at this time??
With the increasing weight and of vehicles and more so with electric vehicles, the maintenance cost of new roads will explored in the coming years.
you are just wasting billions if you decided to expand the road network under these circumstances.

When the Ontario government had downloaded the gardiner to the city of Toronto, it was driving the city broke trying to maintain it. this will be the fate of most suburban communities when their road networks reach the end of life and they don't have room to expand anymore and can't generate enough revenue to fix their existing roads.

In the Big 6 metros, sure. But not in the smaller cities, and definitely not intercity transportation, where all the feds have to offer is a glacial pace (7 years and counting of "studies") half-assed "HSR" plan for the TOM corridor.

What exactly has this government done to make non-road mobility easier for people in Halifax, or Saskatoon, or Winnipeg? Or for people travelling between Calgary and Edmonton, the 4th and 6th largest cities in the country?

Until the answer to those questions is something substantially better than "Nothing at all", we can't seriously be talking about jettisoning road investment.

[Metro-One]

The fact that Victoria (450 000) is connected to the rest of the island (400 000) by a two lane road with traffic lights and a defunct railroad shows how poor our infrastructure is.

Kelowna (250 000 and growing fast!) has no highway and it recently removed the remnants of its railway.

For BC to even approach highway connectivity standards of peer industrialized nations Victoria to Campbell River would be a free flow highway. As would the 17 to the ferry. From there the #1 though the interior would be 4 lane free flow, and the 97 through the Okanagan (Penticton to the #1) would also be a free flow highway.

Along with those highways both the Island corridor, the Fraser Valley, and the Thompson / Okanagan corridor would have regional passenger rail systems.

Canada is not the US, we never overbuilt our highway system, only the Windsor to Quebec City corridor is at adequate levels (wait... now I see why they said "we are done building roads...) and can now focus more on regional rail upgrades. Outside of there most of Canada is severely lacking in both for safety and ease of travel.

Even the prairies are severally lacking in proper freeway intercity routes. Only the QE2 comes close, and even that still has at grade interactions!

So no, the feds are far far far from even thinking they are done with major highway projects in Canada. Therefore that's why this announcement = virtue signaling.

It makes it even the more hilarious that it was said without any announcement or even hint of a massive bold regional rail program across the country.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

The fact that Victoria (450 000) is connected to the rest of the island (400 000) by a two lane road with traffic lights and a defunct railroad shows how poor our infrastructure is.

I would partly blame the feds for this but I think BC is too frugal and not focused enough on infrastructure or handling growth. The province has very good finances and low taxes. I'd rather pay a bit more taxes and have decent infrastructure, although I feel like I pay my share while people with millions in real estate money by and large don't.

I think this fits in with wider politics where real estate money and property have had a big impact and so much seems to be directed to the benefit of a small group of people who live in their private gardens and are insulated from a lot of the problems. This isn't unique to BC but seems more prominent here, while in Ontario for example it is more business elites and in most provinces there just isn't that kind of wealth at all (South End Halifax politics feel very similar to wealthy BC politics but maybe 1/10 as powerful).

[ssiguy]

Funny how Guilbeault states his government will no longer fund new highway projects yet this same gov't offers free cheques to people who buy a new car and cut the transit tax credit.

[Kilgore Trout]

Originally Posted by libtard

Calm down with the fake outrage

If you can't recognize sarcasm when you see it...

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Funny how Guilbeault states his government will no longer fund new highway projects yet this same gov't offers free cheques to people who buy a new car and cut the transit tax credit.

It's a classic Trudeau government move. They're downloading infrastructure costs onto the provinces while making it sound like they're taking a principled environmental stand. If this government really cared about transport-based emissions, they'd be pushing ahead with HSR full throttle and massively financing public transit, both in cities and in rural areas that are losing their intercity bus service.

I am a firm believer that the number of cars in cities needs to be drastically reduced, but even I believe we still need investment in intercity road infrastructure. The state of highways in this country is embarrassing.

[ssiguy]

BC's road highway network is a write-off and frankly it's too late to solve the problem.

Not only is BC's highway network laughably inadequate but it also suffers from incredibly poor long-term vision. The province didn't demand, little alone buy, future highway corridors so development has been wildly under planned. Now if the province wants to build a new highway it will result in hundreds of homes being destroyed to say nothing of the billions just to buy these homes due to BC's absurd housing costs. Their time honoured excuse that they need Ottawa's help is a bold face lie. The HWY#15, which is the only route connecting the truck crossing to HWY#1, upgrade years ago could have included several overpasses and Ottawa was willing to help but it was Victoria that refused to match the funds. Now you have a regular 4 lanes road, with 15 traffic lights, warming to yield to farm tractor, going thru the middle of a town center lined with fast food and malls, all while warning you to only drive 50km/hour when "children are playing near the road".............you couldn't make this stuff up.

Now you have the environmental activists screaming blue murder on any highway projects, even ones that upgrade for safer roads. They keep telling everyone in the Valley that they should take transit but the fact that there is no way to get from Chilliwack to Abbotsford on transit seems to allude them. Of course, the gov't gleefully shut-up because as far as they are concerned, it's less money to spend.

It would take tens of billion just to bring BC highways up to marginal standards and basically none is forthcoming. It's going to really start hurting BC's, and especially Vancouver's, economic future as the city begins to come to a screeching halt and hence not a viable option for new and expanding companies.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Now you have the environmental activists screaming blue murder on any highway projects, even ones that upgrade for safer roads. They keep telling everyone in the Valley that they should take transit but the fact that there is no way to get from Chilliwack to Abbotsford on transit seems to allude them. Of course, the gov't gleefully shut-up because as far as they are concerned, it's less money to spend.

It would take tens of billion just to bring BC highways up to marginal standards and basically none is forthcoming. It's going to really start hurting BC's, and especially Vancouver's, economic future as the city begins to come to a screeching halt and hence not a viable option for new and expanding companies.

The activists' "solution" is the 66X bus from Chilliwack to Lougheed Town Centre. Which itself has to run in mixed traffic on the woefully inadequate Highway 1. An extra lane could be used for that bus, as exists through Surrey through Burnaby.

[dmuzika]

Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout

I turn 40 this year and I've never owned a car.

Am I still a man?!

Straw man argument. I don't own a bus, but I've still used public transit - which also uses the same roads the feds supposedly don't want to fund.

It should be pointed out that the timing of this announcement was on the heals of the Auditor General's report on the ArriveCan app's gross overspending and missing $$ millions. Probably not a coincidence.

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout

I turn 40 this year and I've never owned a car.

Am I still a man?!

• Video Link

[Kilgore Trout]

Originally Posted by dmuzika

Straw man argument. I don't own a bus, but I've still used public transit - which also uses the same roads the feds supposedly don't want to fund.

It should be pointed out that the timing of this announcement was on the heals of the Auditor General's report on the ArriveCan app's gross overspending and missing $$ millions. Probably not a coincidence.

You're taking my comments way too seriously. They were a snarky response to the ridiculous assertion that Guilbeault has never owned a car, and what kind of "grown-ass man" has never owned a car?

You don't have to own a car to know that highways between cities are important. And there's nothing wrong with never having owned a car. It shouldn't be a measure of masculinity.

[Luisito]

Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout

I turn 40 this year and I've never owned a car.

Am I still a man?!

When i lived in Montreal I never really felt the need to own a car. Didn't own one until I moved to WInnipeg. Got my first car at the age of 30. Unfortunately you need one here. Public transit here is not very good.

I have freinds in MTL in the 40s that still don't have a car. It is not for a lack of money either. Montreal is a great transit city and great city for walking.

[dmuzika]

Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout

You're taking my comments way too seriously. They were a snarky response to the ridiculous assertion that Guilbeault has never owned a car, and what kind of "grown-ass man" has never owned a car?

You don't have to own a car to know that highways between cities are important. And there's nothing wrong with never having owned a car. It shouldn't be a measure of masculinity.

My bad, I missed the sarcastic tone.

Even if the minister in question has never owned a car, I'm sure he's driven one. I highly doubt he took the bus to Ralph Klein's house when he scaled it 20+ years ago (I could be wrong).