Housing Choices - where you choose to live

[floobie]

I realize this thread was recently bumped, but it's a cool topic and I'm going to answer the original question anyway:

I currently live in Edgemont in a pretty mid-sized single family home. I live here because I've always lived here. I still live with my parents. In truth, I love this house. My parents designed it with the help of one of my relatives who is an architect, and it's a truly beautiful, unique house. It's definitely one of the smaller houses in the neighbourhood. It's completely dwarfed by the houses adjacent to it. But, for a family of three it's plenty. We also have an absolutely gorgeous view of the mountains from most of the west facing windows.

Edgemont itself is a pretty nice example of suburbia. Yeah, you do need to drive a lot, but there are little nodes of retail scattered throughout. Until I got my license, I biked basically everywhere, and it was fine.

That said, commuting to downtown from here is irritating. I drive to Dalhousie station and take the train from there. It takes a lot longer than I'd like it to. Half an hour on a really good day, 45 minutes on less good days. Once I finally accumulate enough money to move out, I intend to move into a smaller but newish condo in the Beltline. I figure I don't need loads of space. I'd rather keep my possessions a bit more minimal, and not fill my dwelling with all kinds of crap I don't need. Should a spouse and spawn enter the picture, I'll have to re-evaluate. But I'm in no hurry on that front. Living in that area will dramatically cut down on my commute time, allowing me to walk for most of the trips I need to make, and give me loads of access to general "stuff" around me.

[suburb]

I don't think Edgemont is by any stretch the best example of newer integrated suburbs. There is very limited retail / service, and there are not nearly enough higher density nodes. Transit is average at best.

I definitely understand where you're coming from in that the house you're in is particularly customized and there is a sentimental connection. The costs of doing the same today closer to the core are unreachable for most.

General comment about density:

Most of the denso-radicals are single twenty somethings who have left home and don't need a house. The irony in their extremist view is that they often left home particularly early, and unlike yourself, have contributed to density going down by creating additional needs for small 'one per' housing. Multi-generational housing, as much as termite mound condos, are critical to densification.

[kw5150]

Good call Floobie. I really enjoy my condo life. I can be home by 5:20 every day and have neveer sat in rush hour....ever. The biggest thing I hated about relying on a car is that sometimes there are accidents and the traffic literally stops. At least on foot, all you have to do is walk by the traffic jams.

[fusili]

I also live in Beltline. I was living in Edgemont and taking the train for some time too. The train isn't bad, but I could see how driving would be insane for traffic. Living in Beltline really cuts down on the commute.

[Calgarian]

Also a Beltline resident, and I also enjoy not sitting in Rush Hour traffic, I really don't understand how people are willing to waste 45 minutes each way sitting in their car in traffic not moving. My "commute" is 20 minutes tops, rain, snow wind or sunshine. There are maybe 10 days a year where the weather is cold enough that driving (even with traffic) would be preferred, but that's about it.

Also for me, it's not about the Suburbs vs inner city, it's about living a reasonable distance from where you work, there's no excuse for living in Auburn Bay and driving downtown, that's just plain stupid to me.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

Also a Beltline resident, and I also enjoy not sitting in Rush Hour traffic, I really don't understand how people are willing to waste 45 minutes each way sitting in their car in traffic not moving. My "commute" is 20 minutes tops, rain, snow wind or sunshine. There are maybe 10 days a year where the weather is cold enough that driving (even with traffic) would be preferred, but that's about it.

Also for me, it's not about the Suburbs vs inner city, it's about living a reasonable distance from where you work, there's no excuse for living in Auburn Bay and driving downtown, that's just plain stupid to me.

Agreed. 10 days is pretty much it. That is really only when it is -30. Every other day, you just dress appropriately. I would rather walk and regret 10 days of the year, than drive and regret 250.

[floobie]

Edgemont certainly isn't the perfect suburb, but I prefer it over some of the newer ones. I like that it has a few little retail nodes scattered throughout. More would definitely be preferable, though. In terms of housing variety, it's definitely lacking though. The bus service is pretty poor, in my opinion... which is why I drive to Dalhousie station instead of take the bus. It generally takes half the time, if that.

Yeah, the commute is a bit of a pain. If I drove exclusively, it would be a lot worse (at least, when I leave the house). If I can get it down to about 20 minutes consistently, I'd be quite pleased. The only thing preventing that from happening at this point is money...

[suburb]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

I really don't understand how people are willing to waste 45 minutes each way sitting in their car in traffic not moving.

Because it is free as he lives with his folks. While some will see the narrow observation of 'living in edgemont' as anti-density, fact is, he remaining with his parents keeps density higher by having more people in an existing residence, while also not encouraging sprawl by moving out and thus demanding an additional residence for no increase in population.

Of course - most people don't have the option as their folks couldn't wait to get them out!

Floobie - one option for you is to join the majority and stop working in DT. If you must work in the zoo, however, perhaps it does make sense to find yourself a small cage in the inner city. Don't be ashamed of staying with your folks though. If everyone was like you we wouldn't have the proliferation in low 'human to residence' ratio housing.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by suburb

Because it is free as he lives with his folks. While some will see the narrow observation of 'living in edgemont' as anti-density, fact is, he remaining with his parents keeps density higher by having more people in an existing residence, while also note encouraging sprawl by moving out and thus demanding an additional residence for no increase in population.

Of course - most people don't have the option as their folks couldn't wait to get them out!

OR..... if he moves out, that reduces the need for the parents to live in the house (empty-nesters) and also move to a smaller place in time. That then allows a family to move into the vacated house, probably with more than one child.

[Full Mountain]

As a beltline resident, there are a number of major advantages to my wife and I, one is the commute 20 relaxing minutes tops

Second and hugely important to me is that there are 6 resturants within 2 blocks of our condo that serve menus that accomadate my allergies (gluten, dairy), and they range from pub food (The Ship) to fancy night out (Ox & Angela), and most things in between, and to top it all off there is a gluten free bakery 30 seconds outside the door of our building

For us the beltline is about the life style it allows us to live, by spending the money we would otherwise spend on commuting, we can afford a nice condo rental, so even if we aren't out enjoying the resturants, we have a nice place to hang out

[suburb]

Originally Posted by fusili

OR..... if he moves out, that reduces the need for the parents to live in the house (empty-nesters) and also move to a smaller place in time. That then allows a family to move into the vacated house, probably with more than one child.

My point was that the often simplistic assessment is not fair on the questions around density. In this situation, it is not a house or condo, rather a house or a house + condo, or at a minimum, one residence or two residences, with no difference in number of people. At a population level, I assure you that moving towards the multi-generational model will help keep areas vibrant while maintaining if not increasing density in the housing that already exists.

I'm not meaning to be argumentative. Just highlighting a reality that often gets missed. I'm not sure what Calgary's population of 17-25 year olds that are in single occupancy housing is, but if that could be cut in half, that would make a big impact. Might even help with care delivery and the overall health care system, though no two situations are alike.

The other option, of course, is for more of the single KY types to move into co-operative housing.

Originally Posted by Full Mountain

hugely important to me is that there are 6 resturants within 2 blocks of our condo that serve menus that accommodate my allergies (gluten, dairy)

What did you do when you were a kid? Oh wait, you would have had home cooking then!

Regarding the commuting argument, it is in general terms a false argument as only 1/6 of Calgary workers work in the DT zoo.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by suburb

Because it is free as he lives with his folks. While some will see the narrow observation of 'living in edgemont' as anti-density, fact is, he remaining with his parents keeps density higher by having more people in an existing residence, while also not encouraging sprawl by moving out and thus demanding an additional residence for no increase in population.

Of course - most people don't have the option as their folks couldn't wait to get them out!

Floobie - one option for you is to join the majority and stop working in DT. If you must work in the zoo, however, perhaps it does make sense to find yourself a small cage in the inner city. Don't be ashamed of staying with your folks though. If everyone was like you we wouldn't have the proliferation in low 'human to residence' ratio housing.

I'm not talking about one person who lives with their parents still, I'm talking about all the people who buy a house 20km from their office downtown. Sure it's cheaper to buy further out, but that's not factoring in the amount of gas you burn, the cost of parking and the cost of maintenance on your car, not to mention the extra time spent sitting in traffic.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by suburb

I'm not meaning to be argumentative.

You say you don't mean to be argumentative, but you use condescending terms to refer to multi-family housing (Termite mounds) and downtown (calling it the zoo), and voicing your opinion that is contrary to what the majority think on every opportunity you get while using these negative terms. When you use terminology like this, in an overly negative manner, it causes people to be defensive and does indeed start arguments. Not trying to pick a fight with you, just pointing out something I noticed.

[Calgarian]

One last thing on this topic, Living downtown isn't for everyone, and I don't expect everyone to want to do it. All I am suggesting is living close to work to reduce the time spent commuting, and reduce the impact of traffic on both city streets and the environment. If you work in Marda Loop, but live in Tuscany, that's still ridiculous. If you live in Quarry Park, but live in Signal Hill, it's ridiculous. That's my point. Downtown is the usual focus of this topic as it is the area of the city with the highest employment.

I realize people change jobs and many industries aren't focused in a single region, but once you get to the point in your life where you have a stable career, then it should be less of a factor and relocating closer to work shouldn't be too difficult.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

One last thing on this topic, Living downtown isn't for everyone, and I don't expect everyone to want to do it. All I am suggesting is living close to work to reduce the time spent commuting, and reduces the impact of traffic on both city streets and the environment. If you work in Marda Loop, but live in Tuscany, that's still ridiculous. If you live in Quarry Park, but live in Signal Hill, it's ridiculous. That's my point. Downtown is the usual focus of this topic as it is the area of the city with the highest employment.

I realize people change jobs and many industries aren't focused in a single region, but once you get to the point in your life where you have a stable career, then it should be less of a factor and relocating closer to work shouldn't be too difficult.

I agree 100%. I live downtown. I love living downtown. I also work downtown. However, I don't have anything against people who choose to live elsewhere. That is their perogative.

I just find that most people who criticize downtown living have never done it. They will complain about the size of the units, without ever living in a space of that size. They complain about the noise, without knowing what it is like. They complain about crime, but have no idea how safe the area actually does feel.

On the other hand, in places like Calgary, most of the people living downtown have also had the experience of living in the burbs- myself included. I like downtown and can say that I do, because I have experienced both, and quite frankly, I hate suburban living.

[polishavenger]

Im in Bridgeland and love it there. Being central helps reduce the commute to wherever a job might take me, and since Im at the focal point of rush hour traffic, im heading counter flow both in the morning and evening. The transit infrastructure is also as good as it gets in this city.

The lifestyle is great because I have the piazza next door that has a lot of the services I need (food to exercise) and now with the bridgeland market, I can enjoy the simple pleasure of walking a block to buy a bag of potatoes for dinner i thought I had but didnt. I do think the convenience of the liquor store next door has increased my alcohol intake, but wine is good for you right?

I just got a dog and the off leash park on Tom Campbell hills is great, not to mention the river and pathways around the neighborhood. When kids arrive, the zoo, science center, soccer field with playground and skating rink, and schools (elementary to high school) make staying in the neighborhood a no brainer.

The 15 - 20 minute walk to Eau Claire is pretty sweet too, and with the new zoo island bridge coming, crossing into the east village will be a snap. For running afficiandos, this area is the best due to the hills and pathways, you can give yourself a serious butt kicking.

[floobie]

I can safely assume that, should I continue with my current career, I'll always be working downtown (or the Beltline). So, that makes long-term planning in that regard pretty easy

I do hope Calgary becomes a bit more multi-nodal in the coming years. Indeed, not everyone wants to live in the "zoo" , but they should still have the opportunity to live near their workplace.

Based on my last few years of experience with the Beltline, I think I quite like the area. I know people who haven't been there for 10 years or so and assume it's still a crime-infested hole... assuming it ever really was? It's clearly still developing, but it's a nice area to just walk around. I've done it in the middle of the day and at 1 in the morning, and never felt anything but safe.

[polishavenger]

Originally Posted by floobie

I do hope Calgary becomes a bit more multi-nodal in the coming years. Indeed, not everyone wants to live in the "zoo" , but they should still have the opportunity to live near their workplace.

.

That is the key, creating good mixed use neighborhoods all over the city to diffuse traffic (not so down town oriented) and provide good transit service everywhere. With the LRT lines being the focus of this kind of strategy, I think the city is going in the right direction (NCLRT is key), but those areas not directly on CTrain stations can still be much better.

As suburb demonstrates, not everyone likes multifamily living, and they should have choice. My point always is that the choice shouldnt be subsidized the way it is in Calgary. If you think its not, try running this city without the tax base that is generated by the inner core.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by floobie

I can safely assume that, should I continue with my current career, I'll always be working downtown (or the Beltline). So, that makes long-term planning in that regard pretty easy

I do hope Calgary becomes a bit more multi-nodal in the coming years. Indeed, not everyone wants to live in the "zoo" , but they should still have the opportunity to live near their workplace.

I have to vehemently disagree with you.

I know I sound like a broken record, but concentrating office development in the downtown (or at least next to transit stations) is a good thing. While it sounds nice for everyone to live near work, the truth is that most people change jobs several times through their life cycle, yet do not change housing location nearly as much. Secondly, most people live in dual-income households now, so you may live near your work in a suburban office development, but your spouse/partner probably won't.

If multi-nodal employment was so good for walking, wouldn't they have a higher percentage of walkers/transit riders? The fact is, suburban office developments are horrible in terms of the percentage of people who walk or take transit to work. In New York, Midtown has something like 80% walkers/transit riders (probably more), while the suburban office areas are lucky to get to 15%.

Why is a concentrated downtown good? Because you can change jobs five times and never move more than 4 blocks away. The whole time you can take transit. If you live in Riverbend and work in Quarry park and walk to work, that is nice, but statistically you will change jobs in time and be driving again.

[Calgarian]

I'm torn on the multi nodal thing. I like the points you made fusili, but I also think anything that can help take the pressure off the commute downtown isn't necessarily a bad thing.