YVR And Sea Island Developments Discussion II

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by nname

From May to Sept, looks like UA will be adding daily YVR-IAD red-eye flight. This is on top of the daily morning flight offered by AC.

That’s impressive. UA will have 16 daily flights serving all seven of their hubs.
AC will also have 16 daily flights to UA hubs.. So a combined 32 daily between AC and UA. All mainline. Quite a bit of 739 flying too.

SFO 8; LAX 7; DEN 6; ORD 3; IAH 3; EWR 3; IAD 2

[LeftCoaster]

Well that's great news, nothing on aeroroutes yet, but it's bookable on United.com... not AC yet though.

[nname]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

That’s impressive. UA will have 16 daily flights serving all seven of their hubs.
AC will also have 16 daily flights to UA hubs.. So a combined 32 daily between AC and UA. All mainline. Quite a bit of 739 flying too.

SFO 8; LAX 7; DEN 6; ORD 3; IAH 3; EWR 3; IAD 2

This is for July.

For August, SFO is showing 10 flights right now. UA will have an express to fill in the long gap between 8am and noon, as well as an additional mainline flight to fill in between 5pm and 8pm. Maybe they'll update the schedule later to expand the addition through summer, or remove them...

[owenf]

Hey everyone, did a quick analysis for upcoming peak S24 YVR flights with recent DTW, CLT and IAD additions (week of 17-24 July):

YVR-ANC x1 daily AC
YVR-ATL x1 daily WS
YVR-AUS x4 weekly AC
YVR-BOS x1 daily B6
YVR-BNA x2 weekly WS
YVR-CLT x1 daily AA
YVR-DEN x6 daily AC/UA
YVR-DFW x3 daily AA
YVR-DTW x1 daily WS
YVR-EWR x3 daily AC/UA
YVR-HNL x2 daily AC/WS
YVR-IAD x2 daily AC/UA
YVR-IAH x3 daily AC/UA
YVR-JFK x1 daily B6
YVR-LAS x3 daily AC/WS
YVR-LAX x11 daily AC/AA/F8/UA/WS
YVR-MCO x1 weekly WS
YVR-MIA x4 weekly AC
YVR-MSP x18 weekly (2 daily DL/4 weekly SY)
YVR-OGG x1 daily WS
YVR-ORD x4 daily AC/AA/UA
YVR-PDX x5 daily AC/AS
YVR-PHX x2 daily AC
YVR-PSP x2 weekly WS
YVR-SAN x3 daily AC
YVR-SEA x18 daily AC/AS/DL
YVR-SFO x10 daily AC/F8/UA/WS
YVR-SLC x2 daily DL
YVR-SMF x2 daily AC
YVR-SNA x2 daily AC/WS

we're looking at 90+ daily stateside departures YVR-outbound! please let me know if I'm missing anything

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by owenf

Hey everyone, did a quick analysis for upcoming peak S24 YVR flights with recent DTW, CLT and IAD additions (week of 17-24 July):

YVR-ANC x1 daily AC
YVR-ATL x1 daily WS
YVR-AUS x4 weekly AC
YVR-BOS x1 daily B6
YVR-BNA x2 weekly WS
YVR-CLT x1 daily AA
YVR-DEN x6 daily AC/UA
YVR-DFW x3 daily AA
YVR-DTW x1 daily WS
YVR-EWR x3 daily AC/UA
YVR-HNL x2 daily AC/WS
YVR-IAD x2 daily AC/UA
YVR-IAH x3 daily AC/UA
YVR-JFK x1 daily B6
YVR-LAS x3 daily AC/WS
YVR-LAX x11 daily AC/AA/F8/UA/WS
YVR-MCO x1 weekly WS
YVR-MIA x4 weekly AC
YVR-MSP x18 weekly (2 daily DL/4 weekly SY)
YVR-OGG x1 daily WS
YVR-ORD x4 daily AC/AA/UA
YVR-PDX x5 daily AC/AS
YVR-PHX x2 daily AC
YVR-PSP x2 weekly WS
YVR-SAN x3 daily AC
YVR-SEA x18 daily AC/AS/DL
YVR-SFO x10 daily AC/F8/UA/WS
YVR-SLC x2 daily DL
YVR-SMF x2 daily AC
YVR-SNA x2 daily AC/WS

we're looking at 90+ daily stateside departures YVR-outbound! please let me know if I'm missing anything

I believe ATL will be up to double daily on WS

[trofirhen]

It's great to see YVR transborder mushrooming the way it is. I rather think some of the now-seasonal flights might one day grow into year-round. Yes, as people have said, Vancouver punches well above its weight.
And back to -and please forgive me - comparing Seattle to YVR, SEA-TAC will get Munich service on LH starting May 30 ... year-round. At YVR MUC remains seasonal. Too bad.
(Having DXB qnd DUB only seasonal as well seems a little anemic, but we just don't have the population size or business market that Seattle has.
And they are at 4.1 million population metro area, so I guess much of this is self-explanatory).

[LeftCoaster]

Worth noting that MUC-SEA goes to 3x during the winter, not daily, but still I am surprised YVR-MUC has not gone year round sub-daily at least. My surprise isn't because of YVRs Munich demand or anything like that, but mainly because LH is prioritizing MUC so much. Seems like it must be coming soon.

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

It's great to see YVR transborder mushrooming the way it is. I rather think some of the now-seasonal flights might one day grow into year-round. Yes, as people have said, Vancouver punches well above its weight.
And back to -and please forgive me - comparing Seattle to YVR, SEA-TAC will get Munich service on LH starting May 30 ... year-round. At YVR MUC remains seasonal. Too bad.
(Having DXB qnd DUB only seasonal as well seems a little anemic, but we just don't have the population size or business market that Seattle has.
And they are at 4.1 million population metro area, so I guess much of this is self-explanatory).

I wouldn't call YVR having seasonal DXB and DUB anemic. It's still a big deal that YVR has both of those cities even just seasonally. YVR punches way above its weight.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by nname

This is for July.

For August, SFO is showing 10 flights right now. UA will have an express to fill in the long gap between 8am and noon, as well as an additional mainline flight to fill in between 5pm and 8pm. Maybe they'll update the schedule later to expand the addition through summer, or remove them...

Originally Posted by owenf

we're looking at 90+ daily stateside departures YVR-outbound! please let me know if I'm missing anything

Greetings from MapleLeaf Lounge. Flying home tonight on Air NZ!

So yeah looking like 95+ daily transborder flights of which almost half on US carriers ~ 45 daily (UA 18 / DL 11 / AS 7 / AA 6 / B6 2 and 4 weekly SY)

Nice to see WS still has a presence too with 11 destinations

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Worth noting that MUC-SEA goes to 3x during the winter, not daily, but still I am surprised YVR-MUC has not gone year round sub-daily at least. My surprise isn't because of YVRs Munich demand or anything like that, but mainly because LH is prioritizing MUC so much. Seems like it must be coming soon.

When it went MUC-YVR last year there were a ton of people connecting from Delhi. I'm surprised that wouldn't help make it viable year-round.

Is MUC the LH base for A380? There seem to be a lot of US bound flights with it.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by whatnext

When it went MUC-YVR last year there were a ton of people connecting from Delhi. I'm surprised that wouldn't help make it viable year-round.

Is MUC the LH base for A380? There seem to be a lot of US bound flights with it.

Yes. All A380 flying is MUC based the 748s are based in FRA.

Speaking of Delhi, we flew AI via DEL to Europe from MEL for Xmas. They were excellent! The amount of India traffic ex MEL has just skyrocketed in the last decade.
Will be flying back to YVR in late AUG on AI as well. Their J class fares are by far the best deal.
AI has really upped their game since Tata took over. More improvements to come. They have become a decent option to fly to Europe and NA.

[xd_1771]

Aeroroutes is saying JAL will swap its 767s to Vancouver for 787-8s in August and October only, which per booking on their website is expected to be the SKY SUITE/Apex Suite layout. A welcome change.

Gain 6x business seats per flight (in a better seat) in exchange for losing 30 pax in economy. That loss is still more than made up for by JAL throwing us a new ZIPAIR route.

[thenoflyzone]

Interesting discussion over on airliners about AC's fleet strategy in the coming years. Rumor has it the AC mainline 7M8s are going over to Rouge, so that AC can open up a Rouge base in the west, to better compete against Westjet/Sunwing at YVR, and possibly re-establish itself at YYC. The A320/321ceo's don't have the legs and/or ETOPS certification to do YVR-Hawaii, Florida or Caribbean runs. The 7M8 does. (Around half the 7M8 fleet is ETOPS 180 certified, whereas none of the A320/321s are)

The Rouge 319s (built in the 90s) will eventually retire, and the A320/321ceos will move over to AC mainline. The A321XLRs will give AC mainline an ETOSP 180 capable narrowbody when they arrive.

Seems to make sense. Looks like Rouge might live on. Let's see what happens.

[madog222]

As long as they keep rouge out of LAX and SFO.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Interesting discussion over on airliners about AC's fleet strategy in the coming years. Rumor has it the AC mainline 7M8s are going over to Rouge, so that AC can open up a Rouge base in the west, to better compete against Westjet/Sunwing at YVR, and possibly re-establish itself at YYC. The A320/321ceo's don't have the legs and/or ETOPS certification to do YVR-Hawaii, Florida or Caribbean runs. The 7M8 does. (Around half the 7M8 fleet is ETOPS 180 certified, whereas none of the A320/321s are)

The Rouge 319s (built in the 90s) will eventually retire, and the A320/321ceos will move over to AC mainline. The A321XLRs will give AC mainline an ETOSP 180 capable narrowbody when they arrive.

Seems to make sense. Looks like Rouge might live on. Let's see what happens.

Ugh no thanks. To both Rouge and the Max 8. I recently had the “pleasure” of taking the Max 8 to Hawaii. What a comedown from decades of wide body service. Gone are the days of 767s, A340s and DC10s. The plane was too small for such a long route. Don’t ever buy seats in the last 6-10 rows aka Latrine Lane. You’ll spend the flight looking at the lineup of pax waiting to use the laughably small lavs.

[connect2source]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Interesting discussion over on airliners about AC's fleet strategy in the coming years. Rumor has it the AC mainline 7M8s are going over to Rouge, so that AC can open up a Rouge base in the west, to better compete against Westjet/Sunwing at YVR, and possibly re-establish itself at YYC. The A320/321ceo's don't have the legs and/or ETOPS certification to do YVR-Hawaii, Florida or Caribbean runs. The 7M8 does. (Around half the 7M8 fleet is ETOPS 180 certified, whereas none of the A320/321s are)

The Rouge 319s (built in the 90s) will eventually retire, and the A320/321ceos will move over to AC mainline. The A321XLRs will give AC mainline an ETOSP 180 capable narrowbody when they arrive.

Seems to make sense. Looks like Rouge might live on. Let's see what happens.

Just reading about that on a.net too. Seems there's also some speculation that Rouge will be dissolved, hence fleet absorbed by mainline AC. Interesting development but no links to anything official on a.net.

[owenf]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Worth noting that MUC-SEA goes to 3x during the winter, not daily, but still I am surprised YVR-MUC has not gone year round sub-daily at least. My surprise isn't because of YVRs Munich demand or anything like that, but mainly because LH is prioritizing MUC so much. Seems like it must be coming soon.

2 things about YVR/SEA-MUC:

1. In S23 YVR-MUC was 3x weekly from late March-late June, at which point it switched to daily until end of summer season at the end of October. For S24, YVR-MUC is daily onwards from 8 April to end of October. So already that is considerably more capacity if you're looking at post-pandemic frequency. This is considering that LH initially launched Seattle as summer daily/winter 3 weekly, but changed it to 3x weekly year-round as of right now. I do think sometime in the near future (2-3 years) also as more LH A350s come online YVR-MUC should grow to sub-daily in the winter.

2. SEA-MUC was supposed to launch in 2020 but that never materialized due to the pandemic, and then LH launched it initially once-daily...now three-weekly so they may have overestimated that market especially with it being so saturated with recent TK, AY (AY is scaling back now aswell) and TN additions. AA ended their seasonal SEA-LHR route for this year as well. This is while YVR-Europe traffic is relatively stable post-pandemic. Something to think about.

For what it's worth I think YVR is doing very well internationally despite literally having no China capacity like it did pre-pandemic and the numbers reflect that. We also have the only Thailand non-stop service to North America, albeit seasonal. I just wish we had more foreign carriers (SQ, EI, EK) and more winter Europe service as well but we're doing well. Looking forward to the 2023 final numbers.

[zahav]

The combined AC/UA flight schedule is very strong, and all mainline to boot. I had posted on the Canada Airport thread that YVR will be the only Canadian airport with both AC and UA service to all seven of UA's hubs (not counting Guam, which doesn't even have UA flights to the mainland US).

Definitely a solid showing by WS. Johnny Aussie, I counted 12 destinations this summer, not 11, unless I am missing something? Atlanta, Honolulu, Kahului, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Orange County, Orlando, Palm Springs, Detroit, Nashville, San Diego, San Francisco. I am not mad at having WS take over from DL on several transborder routes (ATL, LAX, DTW, all of which DL has served at some point in the past, and handed them to WS with DL codeshare). I feel like solidifying WS's place is more important for YVR than having DL operate these; it boosts the overall flights by our 2nd biggest carrier, and still keeps the codeshare from DL for US connections. I am also happy that WS stuck it out with OGG. The devastating fires a few months ago really hurt Maui, and airlines like AC dropped it for the summer. But WS kept daily flights, so I'm sure they will reap the benefits of being the only carrier on the route. Maui is bouncing back, and is always a popular choice for West Coasters, so very happy WS stuck it out. WS and AC have really reached an equilibrium in terms of sharing transborder routes (WS has traditionally been on routes like PSP and SNA, but then AC moved in). Glad to see the shared leisure routes have absorbed the capacity and both carriers are steady (WS basically wiped out AC in YYC, and AC massively cut down WS in YYZ, but they've both kept a steady schedule here.

Small update I noticed, AF is switching from the A359 to 777-300. It appears to be an increase in seats as well (the A359 has either 324 or 292 pax, while the 777 has either 369, 381, or 472 seats). I never know how to tell which variant is operating a route, as the schedules only list the equipment, not the configuration. But even assuming the high end for the 359 at 324, and the low end for the 777 at 369, it is still a bump. I am not sure about which is a nicer experience however, the 777 are quite old and the 359s brand new, so might be a downgrade in interior, but is a boost is capacity. And 777-300s are nice and beefy, glad to see both AF and KLM operating their largest planes here.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by connect2source

Just reading about that on a.net too. Seems there's also some speculation that Rouge will be dissolved, hence fleet absorbed by mainline AC. Interesting development but no links to anything official on a.net.

That rumor has been lingering for the last 2-3 years. This one (7M8/A320 swap), is hot off the press, so to speak.

That being said, neither can be taken for granted until ink is on paper. So we'll see.

Originally Posted by whatnext

Ugh no thanks. To both Rouge and the Max 8. I recently had the “pleasure” of taking the Max 8 to Hawaii. What a comedown from decades of wide body service. Gone are the days of 767s, A340s and DC10s. The plane was too small for such a long route. Don’t ever buy seats in the last 6-10 rows aka Latrine Lane. You’ll spend the flight looking at the lineup of pax waiting to use the laughably small lavs.

You're saying this as if you're just now realizing passenger comfort is not a priority for the airlines. Every aircraft, Rouge or non-Rouge, has rows close to the lavs. And every airline nowadays is installing those slim lavs, to add more seats in their narrowbodies. This is an industry wide change, and nothing specific to Rouge.

I've said this on here several times now. Rouge has been nothing but a massive success for AC. People will complain, but will still book Rouge the following year, because for most people, price is the #1 factor in determining which airline they fly. That will never change.

[C3YVR]

I'll be traveling to Munich in three weeks but as I'm also visiting Paris and Vienna I'm flying AF to CDG then taking a TGV to Munich. After Munich I'll take another train to Austria before flying AF A320 back to Paris from Vienna. This trip on AF will be on 789s but when I flew last October to CDG on AF it was a 772, and I returned from AMS on a KLM 773.