Parkdale Collective [159-167 Parkdale Ave] | 96m | 31f | U/C

[GeoNerd]

Originally Posted by Williamoforange

Poor is a description and in this case a description of the residents net worth. If you want to take that as an insult go right ahead but again that's on you for thinking it means something more in context

I'm stating that the literal SP accepted in 2015 which dictated the zoning for areas was influenced by those with the means and ability to participate in the consultation process to restrict that zoning to lower limits then what was dictated on areas that are poor and due to that were unable to participate in the consultation process as greatly. Usually because they could not make it to meetings for a variety of reasons. ( This isn't exactly an unknown issue with these public consultation processes, and it's not exactly unknown that CA don't represent communities in either opinion or diversity)

Root cause: lower property values, Lower protections, close enough to transit and etc means it was ripe for redevelopment.

Firstly, stop calling people or neighbourhoods “poor”. It is not the 1950’s anymore. I’m sure many people in that “poor neighbourhood” have income that far exceeds yours or mine.

Secondly, income does not dictate who participates in SP consultation process. Unless you’re implying that the people of Mechanicsville are both “poor” AND “lazy”.

Lastly, I too would have the same opinion if I didn’t understand the SP/CDP/Development process. It’s simply not based on fact.

[Williamoforange]

Originally Posted by GeoNerd

Firstly, stop calling people or neighbourhoods “poor”. It is not the 1950’s anymore. I’m sure many people in that “poor neighbourhood” have income that far exceeds yours or mine.

Secondly, income does not dictate who participates in SP consultation process. Unless you’re implying that the people of Mechanicsville are both “poor” AND “lazy”.

Lastly, I too would have the same opinion if I didn’t understand the SP/CDP/Development process. It’s simply not based on fact.

The word has a definition: "lacking sufficient money to live at a standard considered comfortable or normal in a society." if you prefer you can switch it in your head to "low socioeconomic status" but that's kinda hard to type on a phone.

As for the rest:

The median household income in 20011 for that area was ~$54k the city median was around ~$79k (going from the stats canada data on census mapper) and that was just a decade ago, used to be lower then that.

There was a study done one on CA in Vancouver & Toronto and there findings were "We find that members of neighbourhood associations in both cities are not representative of the broader population. They are more likely to be white, older and have higher education than the average voter. In addition, while the ideology of neighbourhood association members differs little from that of the broader public, their policy priorities are different from those of the majority of voters in both cities" Study was called "The representativeness of neighbourhood associations in Toronto and Vancouver"

I clearly stated "Usually because they could not make it to meetings for a variety of reasons", and these reasons are the same as to why they also make up the most unvaccinated portion of the population.

As for secondary plan process, What exactly do you think led to a SP for Scott limiting land next to an LRT station to 3 stories? because you can't be arguing it was what planning thought the infrastructure at that location could support, which is what should determine it. As for my opinion SP rely heavily on community consultations usually with the CA, and those CA don't represent the community at large.

[GeoNerd]

Originally Posted by Williamoforange

The word has a definition: "lacking sufficient money to live at a standard considered comfortable or normal in a society." if you prefer you can switch it in your head to "low socioeconomic status" but that's kinda hard to type on a phone.

As for the rest:

The median household income in 20011 for that area was ~$54k the city median was around ~$79k (going from the stats canada data on census mapper) and that was just a decade ago, used to be lower then that.

There was a study done one on CA in Vancouver & Toronto and there findings were "We find that members of neighbourhood associations in both cities are not representative of the broader population. They are more likely to be white, older and have higher education than the average voter. In addition, while the ideology of neighbourhood association members differs little from that of the broader public, their policy priorities are different from those of the majority of voters in both cities" Study was called "The representativeness of neighbourhood associations in Toronto and Vancouver"

I clearly stated "Usually because they could not make it to meetings for a variety of reasons", and these reasons are the same as to why they also make up the most unvaccinated portion of the population.

As for secondary plan process, What exactly do you think led to a SP for Scott limiting land next to an LRT station to 3 stories? because you can't be arguing it was what planning thought the infrastructure at that location could support, which is what should determine it. As for my opinion SP rely heavily on community consultations usually with the CA, and those CA don't represent the community at large.

Again, an erroneous take. You're all but confirming that you believe the people of Mechanicsville are poor and lazy. "Could not make it to meetings for a variety of reasons" can apply to anyone. I'm sure people in Rockcliffe sometimes can't make meetings because they're bringing young Timmy to his water polo match. It's an inconsequential argument against people of a lower economic bracket. A report regarding neighbourhood associations in two completely different cities is irrelevant. You are confusing public consultations with neighbourhood associations. The two are mostly unrelated and not synonyms. The median income of the large swaths of Hintonburg is lower than Mechanicsville. Half of centretown is lower as well which has strong community involvement. That's why no one outside of a high school social studies project uses those census stats for anything qualitative.

As I previously stated much of Scott Street has north-south back lanes and it is almost entirely low-rise residential. Not ideal for tower sites. Parkdale has a proper back lane and abuts a more mixed-use neighbourhood with more building separations, higher density housing types, and surface parking. These are stronger factors in tower redevelopments than "cheap houses" which have almost identical value to their Scott Street counterparts.

I don't think we're going to agree on this issue, but I will base my statements on facts.

[Williamoforange]

Originally Posted by GeoNerd

Again, an erroneous take. You're all but confirming that you believe the people of Mechanicsville are poor and lazy. "Could not make it to meetings for a variety of reasons" can apply to anyone. I'm sure people in Rockcliffe sometimes can't make meetings because they're bringing young Timmy to his water polo match. It's an inconsequential argument against people of a lower economic bracket. A report regarding neighbourhood associations in two completely different cities is irrelevant. You are confusing public consultations with neighbourhood associations. The two are mostly unrelated and not synonyms. The median income of the large swaths of Hintonburg is lower than Mechanicsville. Half of centretown is lower as well which has strong community involvement. That's why no one outside of a high school social studies project uses those census stats for anything qualitative.

As I previously stated much of Scott Street has north-south back lanes and it is almost entirely low-rise residential. Not ideal for tower sites. Parkdale has a proper back lane and abuts a more mixed-use neighbourhood with more building separations, higher density housing types, and surface parking. These are stronger factors in tower redevelopments than "cheap houses" which have almost identical value to their Scott Street counterparts.

I don't think we're going to agree on this issue, but I will base my statements on facts.

Were done, I've clearly stated what my actual opinion is, provided data to back it and you've now attempted to put words in my mouth that I did not state for a third time.

If you want to argue in bad faith go do it with someone else.

[SL123]

Has anyone seen any progress on this site? Excavation was suppose to start by end of August. Havent been in the area in a while and im curious to know if this is actually going up.

[ponyboycurtis]

Originally Posted by SL123

Has anyone seen any progress on this site? Excavation was suppose to start by end of August. Havent been in the area in a while and im curious to know if this is actually going up.

Made a point to walk by yesterday while checking out the second Dale excavation.





The thing that struck me most about this photo is how little over burden there is. It's straight bedrock after about 2 feet of top soil. No wonder our parking garages take forever. They are essentially drilling and blasting from ground level here.

So if the Dale 2? is anything to go on which now has the bottom level of concrete started, this should be at the same phase in 6 months or so. Possibly at ground level by early summer 2022.

As a side note... what is typically done with the topsoil here? Is it generally considered spoil or does it have some value?

[SL123]

Thanks for the update! Glad to see this one actually get built.

[SidetrackedSue]

Originally Posted by ponyboycurtis

They are essentially drilling and blasting from ground level here.

I heard a blast the other day and wondered which building it was for. Perhaps I should be taking a long walk and see if it was for here. (It was out my east window, I hear blasting for Scott/McRae out my west window so I knew it wasn't for that.)

[daud]

A running joke I have with some colleagues on this particular area:

Whenever there's a crime its called "Mechanicsville" Whenever its a new restaurant or condo its called "Hintonburg".

Scott Street is the historical delineation between the 2 (I think) but you will notice that any crime that happens in mechanicsville gets called mechanicsville while ads for condos like the Dale will call the location Hintonburg.

[ponyboycurtis]

Minor Update. Walked by again the other day and realized they are using concrete blocks to shore the side? I don't recall seeing that before. It's usually the steel piles filled with lumber.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by ponyboycurtis

Minor Update. Walked by again the other day and realized they are using concrete blocks to shore the side? I don't recall seeing that before. It's usually the steel piles filled with lumber.

It looks like they've hit rock within a metre or two - while you need sheet piles to hold back soil at depth, it you only need to build a 2m high retaining wall concrete blocks are going to be much cheaper and faster.

[J.OT13]

Thanks for posting ponyboy. Parkdale will have quite the lineup of towers within the next 5 years. It will look kind of weird: sort of 2D instead o layering. Tunney's and Holland Cross might help.

[ponyboycurtis]

Originally Posted by Catenary

It looks like they've hit rock within a metre or two - while you need sheet piles to hold back soil at depth, it you only need to build a 2m high retaining wall concrete blocks are going to be much cheaper and faster.

Ah ok! that makes perfect sense now. Thanks for clearing up the obvious

[kevinbottawa]

That shorter building to the left in the last photo looks great

[Marcus CLS]

Website for future tenants is now available.

Parkdalecollective.com

[Harley613]

https://www.parkdalecollective.com/

[ponyboycurtis]

Assuming that is a pile of loose rubble under the excavator they have made some decent progress since the beginning of November. They also sounded off a blast shortly after this photo at roughly 4:30 pm. The whistle was a good precursor to my eventual sojourn to downtown.

[SL123]

thanks for the update! Always appreciated. I dont walk around as much in the winter so these pics really keep me up to date ahahah

[GeoNerd]

Progress.

[Harley613]

Big dig! Mods, can we please change the title to 'Parkdale Collective'?