[Moncton] St. Bernard Place | 18 Storeys | Proposed - Page 6

jonny golden · #**101** Posted **Apr 17, 2023, 4:35 PM**

The original plans from Frederic Properties in Feb. 2021:

Twelve floors, $35 million, 148 units, three levels of underground parking - 170 spaces.

I'm curious to see if the new developer plans on keeping the original design, or have they been working on something completely different for the site.

Leroy321 · #**102** Posted **Apr 17, 2023, 7:16 PM**

Are they drilling for soil samples or starting site prep?

Riberview · #**103** Posted **Apr 17, 2023, 7:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Reposted from the downtown thread:

Could it be? Are the new owners about to proceed on this project???

Cooool!! (Too many o's, I know. I'm excited.)

jonny golden · #**104** Posted **Apr 17, 2023, 7:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leroy321

Are they drilling for soil samples or starting site prep?

The post this morning on the downtown Moncton thread said they were drilling.

jonny golden · #**105** Posted **Apr 17, 2023, 8:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonny golden

The original plans from Frederic Properties in Feb. 2021:

Twelve floors, $35 million, 148 units, three levels of underground parking - 170 spaces.

I'm curious to see if the new developer plans on keeping the original design, or have they been working on something completely different for the site.

At the time, Frederic Properties were quoted as saying that the project would take two and a half years to complete.

NBNYer · #**106** Posted **Apr 17, 2023, 9:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonny golden

The post this morning on the downtown Moncton thread said they were drilling.

This project already had the go-ahead from the city. I wonder why they would need more soil samples.

MonctonRad · #**107** Posted **Apr 17, 2023, 9:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by NBNYer

This project already had the go-ahead from the city. I wonder why they would need more soil samples.

Well, one possibility is that the project has been changed by the new proponent. The original proposal was for a 12 storey building. What if the new plan is for 16 or 20 storeys? This might require new testing.

Again, John Wishart on a couple of occasions recently said he expected a couple of 20 storey announcements this spring.

Hmmmmm............

MonctonRad · #**108** Posted **Apr 18, 2023, 5:04 PM**

Drilling again today. They seem to be doing a comprehensive soil analysis across the entire length and breadth of the lot.

I can't help wondering if this comprehensive retesting doesn't mean that the new developer plans a building with significantly different style and/or stature.

Nashe · #**109** Posted **Apr 18, 2023, 5:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I can't help wondering if this comprehensive retesting doesn't mean that the new developer plans a building with significantly different style and/or stature.

That crosses my mind too. If your project was smaller/lower, you could re-use the existing core info, no?

jonny golden · #**110** Posted **Apr 18, 2023, 5:21 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Drilling again today. They seem to be doing a comprehensive soil analysis across the entire length and breadth of the lot.

I can't help wondering if this comprehensive retesting doesn't mean that the new developer plans a building with significantly different style and/or stature.

That's the question.

I don't recall Frederic Properties doing any drilling at the time, so perhaps this is just the normal first step in building the existing design. But like you, I'm wondering if the new developer has been working on something completely different. They've had plenty of time to create their own design. Could they be planning a larger project to maximize the return on investment?

In any case, it's great to finally see something happening with this project.

adamuptownsj · #**111** Posted **Apr 18, 2023, 7:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonny golden

That's the question.

I don't recall Frederic Properties doing any drilling at the time, so perhaps this is just the normal first step in building the existing design. But like you, I'm wondering if the new developer has been working on something completely different. They've had plenty of time to create their own design. Could they be planning a larger project to maximize the return on investment?

In any case, it's great to finally see something happening with this project.

I recently completed a geotechnical survey which did not need any test drilling (test pits were fine) but that is often a second step. Test drilling could be needed if bedrock isn't found during the initial survey, if the pits were inconclusive, if the site is unique/disturbed/etc.

Perhaps the project has grown larger or this is just an uncrossed T/undotted I from the first attempt.

benvui · #**112** Posted **Apr 20, 2023, 7:35 PM**

So to add more rumor to the fire, my dad was mentioning that he was told by his minister that they started working on building 20 storey building next to the church. Just a rumor

MonctonRad · #**113** Posted **Apr 20, 2023, 9:04 PM**

The plot thickens!

jonny golden · #**114** Posted **Apr 20, 2023, 11:21 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

The plot thickens!

You don't spend $3 million for a piece of land unless you intend to build something significant on it. I wouldn't be surprised if it's taller than the 12 floors originally planned. If it is, they'll have to go before city council, right?

Riberview · #**115** Posted **Apr 20, 2023, 11:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonny golden

You don't spend $3 million for a piece of land unless you intend to build something significant on it. I wouldn't be surprised if it's taller than the 12 floors originally planned. If it is, they'll have to go before city council, right?

From what I read, one of the original variances approved for St Bernard's was to allow a building taller than 19 meters.

I don't recall there being a "no more than XX tall".. but I can't find the document.

jonny golden · #**116** Posted **Jun 20, 2023, 6:24 PM**

OK so there is speculation that some developers might be re-working their plans in light of the recent ICON news. (30 floors) Could this explain why we haven't heard any news lately about St Bernard Square? Hopefully this is the situation as to why it's taking so long. The developer purchased the land along with the plans which called for a 12 storey building. So we could eventually see an even bigger development on this land!

jnaygull · #**117** Posted **Jun 20, 2023, 6:58 PM**

Why the pissing contest? Or is it more to see what kind of resistance the first developer encounters when coming in with such a project? First one through the wall kinda deal.

Monctoncore · #**118** Posted **Jun 20, 2023, 7:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnaygull

Why the pissing contest? Or is it more to see what kind of resistance the first developer encounters when coming in with such a project? First one through the wall kinda deal.

It’s hard to say as these are only rumours. I think if it is true, the reasoning behind it, is local developers wanting to put their “mark” on the city. John Lafford set a new standard for development in the city with the Three Sisters and now others are seeing that there is a demand for these larger projects.

Something the developers should consider, is that they can make a statement without building the tallest building. An 18-22 story building that stands out architecturally can make a bigger statement than a 30 floor building. Though I do like the added blue lighting in the Icon development building.

jonny golden · #**119** Posted **Jun 20, 2023, 9:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monctoncore

It’s hard to say as these are only rumours. I think if it is true, the reasoning behind it, is local developers wanting to put their “mark” on the city. John Lafford set a new standard for development in the city with the Three Sisters and now others are seeing that there is a demand for these larger projects.

Something the developers should consider, is that they can make a statement without building the tallest building. An 18-22 story building that stands out architecturally can make a bigger statement than a 30 floor building. Though I do like the added blue lighting in the Icon development building.

I think you hit the nail on the head with the market demand. I had heard on two separate occasions that the first sister was fully leased. I believe this to be true, since the original timeline for completing the project has been shortened.

MonctonGoldenTri · #**120** Posted **Jun 22, 2023, 12:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monctoncore

It’s hard to say as these are only rumours. I think if it is true, the reasoning behind it, is local developers wanting to put their “mark” on the city. John Lafford set a new standard for development in the city with the Three Sisters and now others are seeing that there is a demand for these larger projects.

Something the developers should consider, is that they can make a statement without building the tallest building. An 18-22 story building that stands out architecturally can make a bigger statement than a 30 floor building. Though I do like the added blue lighting in the Icon development building.

What is the elevation difference compared to the Harper building? Seems to me that St Bernard could get away with less height and still have a significant presence on Moncton's skyline. 15-18s would probably get close to the assumption is my guess.