Winnipeg Construction X

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by Malcsta

I think it was around this time last year we heard talk of a big tower at the site of the old st regis hotel.. anyone remember this? There were a few renderings floating around from what I can remember

We're getting the parkade part apparently. 10 stories. The rest of the building, not happening yet. Not sure what the timelines are.

[FactaNV]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

We're getting the parkade part apparently. 10 stories. The rest of the building, not happening yet. Not sure what the timelines are.

In what world does a ten story parkade ever make sense as a business case? This has to be sheer stupidity or money laundering lol.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by Malcsta

I think it was around this time last year we heard talk of a big tower at the site of the old st regis hotel.. anyone remember this? There were a few renderings floating around from what I can remember

dead...all of it.

I think their deadline on the option passed.

[WinCitySparky]

Originally Posted by Malcsta

I think it was around this time last year we heard talk of a big tower at the site of the old st regis hotel.. anyone remember this? There were a few renderings floating around from what I can remember

That was like 3 years ago and I wouldn’t hold breath on any of it

[Biff]

Originally Posted by trueviking

dead...all of it.

I think their deadline on the option passed.

I have heard the same thing.

[eman]

I keep criticizing Bellamy because all he offers is more of the same things that got us into this housing crisis. The housing crisis we are in is caused by restrictive zoning right out of the Jane Jacobs playbook.

If Jane Jacobs was alive today she could not afford to live in Greenwich Village next to billionaires like Taylor Swift or the Toronto Street she lived on.

The same highly restrictive zoning is making Winnipeg unaffordable to live and build in.

While Jane Jacobs' ideas have significantly influenced urban planning and offer valuable insights into creating livable, engaging urban environments, it is essential to recognize that these principles can inadvertently contribute to contemporary challenges, such as the housing CRISIS. In the case of Osborne Village and similar neighbourhoods, the strict adherence to Jacobs' principles—such as overly restrictive zoning policies intended to preserve neighbourhood character—can severely limit housing supply and exacerbate affordability issues, crime and push small businesses away from a once thriving neighborhood. Despite the good intentions behind preserving community character, these policies have contributed to a situation where demand far outstrips supply, driving up housing costs and making it increasingly difficult for people to find affordable homes.

My building needs to regularly remove people setting up camp and starting fires.

How about Tokyo Japan? 40 million people in the metro and NO housing crisis.





The Japanese model for housing, particularly in cities like Tokyo, presents an intriguing contrast to many Western urban centers experiencing housing crises. Tokyo's approach to urban development and housing can offer valuable lessons:

Key Features of Tokyo's Housing Model:

High Density and Mixed-Use Development:

Tokyo embraces high-density living and mixed-use development, where residential, commercial, and cultural activities coexist within the same neighborhoods. This efficient land use allows for a greater supply of housing units in central urban areas.
Flexible Zoning and Building Regulations:

Zoning regulations in Tokyo are more flexible compared to some Western cities. This allows for easier development of mid-rise and high-rise buildings, accommodating the city's growing population without overly restricting building heights or densities.
Incremental Development and Adaptability:

The Japanese approach often involves incremental development, where buildings are replaced or renovated over time to meet changing needs and demographics. This adaptability helps maintain a steady supply of housing and encourages diverse architectural styles and building types.
Public Transportation and Accessibility:

Tokyo's extensive and efficient public transportation system makes living in outlying areas feasible, reducing the pressure on central urban areas. This accessibility enhances housing options across the city and reduces dependence on owning a car.
Social and Cultural Factors:

Cultural norms in Japan, such as a high value placed on urban living and communal spaces, support the acceptance of higher-density housing. There is also a preference for smaller living spaces, which optimizes land use and contributes to affordability.
Contrasting with Western Cities' Housing Crises:

Zoning and Regulatory Differences:

Western cities often have more stringent zoning regulations and building codes that can hinder high-density development. Height restrictions and neighborhood preservation efforts, influenced by figures like Jane Jacobs, can limit housing supply despite increasing demand.
Market Dynamics and Speculation:

Housing markets in Western cities may also be influenced by speculative investment, driving up prices and exacerbating affordability issues. Tokyo's more stable housing market discourages speculative investment, contributing to more stable prices.
Government Intervention and Planning:

In Japan, government policies often support affordable housing initiatives and urban planning that balances growth with livability. Programs promoting mixed-income developments and public-private partnerships help maintain housing affordability.
Lessons for Western Cities:

Flexibility in Zoning:

Adopting more flexible zoning policies that accommodate higher-density developments in appropriate areas can increase housing supply without compromising urban character.
Public Transit Investment:

Investing in efficient public transportation can expand housing options beyond central urban cores, alleviating pressure on housing prices in those areas.
Balancing Preservation with Growth:

Learning from Tokyo's example, Western cities can balance the preservation of neighborhood character with the need for diverse housing options. This includes reconsidering height restrictions and encouraging adaptive reuse of existing buildings.
Conclusion:

Tokyo's housing model demonstrates that a combination of flexible zoning, high-density living, efficient public transportation, and cultural norms can effectively mitigate housing crises. Western cities can draw valuable insights from Tokyo's approach to urban development and housing policy to address their own challenges, fostering more sustainable and affordable urban living environments.

[1ajs]

we keep going all or nothing with these ideas and never a balance and thats why we run into these situations but... the other issue is.................................

if prices arnt high no one wants to build were caught in a catch 22 of our economy and thus becomes unafordable and then were also still dealing with the fall out of 2008 and the stimulus money that filled the economy and took interest rates so low putting pressure on revenue assets like rentals and stock markets then u throw china in the mix with many of its wealthy trying to get their money outa china and u get the perfect storm

[optimusREIM]

^ I'm not sure I totally understand what your beef with Winnipeg zoning policy or Brent Bellamy is. Are you suggesting that we prioritize density at the expense of all other issues? Clearly that's not tenable either? Is it wrong to try and preserve historic character? I think that in some cases, there is in fact too much red tape, but I don't know that this is really the only problem. Obviously it would be good to have a bunch of developers waiting in the wings to raze the least efficient uses of land and make much denser neighbourhoods, but this is not a process that you can really force to occur

[eman]

"Is it wrong to try and preserve historic character?"

When it results in the neighbourhood being unaffordable to live or build in and daytime crime and people living in tents then the zoning was way too restrictive.

Does old housing stock, say on Bole Street, River Ave or Stradbrook need to limited to 4 floors? Are these houses really historic? Would a 15 story building destroy the characer? No, there already is a 15 story building midblock on Stradrbook(400 Stradbrook).


Preserving character failed, and failed to provide new homes to people that would love to live there.

[trueviking]

eman is the guy who thinks that if we eliminate zoning, skyscrapers will magically pop up all over winnipeg.....he has zero interest in understanding development economics.

[eman]

Originally Posted by trueviking

eman is the guy who thinks that if we eliminate zoning, skyscrapers will magically pop up all over winnipeg.....he has zero interest in understanding development economics.

Skyscrapers are 30+ floors.

Why do cities like Tokyo NOT have a housing crisis and all the cities with our same failed zoning as us all have a housing crisis. If we keep doing what has failed we can only continue to fail.

I am all for walkable, bikable transit oriented, yet limiting massive parts of an inner city to 4 floors is foolish with massive negative affects. And I don't understand why you are not Winnipeg's greatest advocate for mid-rise and high-rise mixed use (successfully like Tokyo) anywhere in OV or anywhere near downtown.

A building like 400 Stradbrook or 26 Carlton should be permitted, zoned mixed use and actively solicited by the city anywhere in OV.

[Biff]

I'm pretty sure the downtown area has no significant zoning restrictions on height other than a minimum of 3 storeys. Unless I am missing something I don't recall a rush of "skyscrapers" being built.

[trueviking]

Oh Eman....again?

Everyone loves towers...i love towers....i want them everywhere....

the reason we don't have towers everywhere in Winnipeg is NOT ZONING.



Here's a fun little bit of information I wanted to share here....it really puts things into perspective.

I am right now working on a large two-building project. One building is 16 storeys....one building is 6 storeys....both are concrete block structural construction...the same mechanical, and electrical requirements....they have the exact same cladding.....tthe exact same number of units and square footage....they have the same site constraints and schedule requirements....it is a pure apples to apples comparison.

THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS ONE IS A TOWER AND ONE IS NOT.

the tower costs 23% more.

This is why developers do not build towers....we have cheap land....it is far cheaper to build 6 story buildings, even concrete ones, than iit is towers....its the market dictating it, not zoning.

[trueviking]

don't we now have an illegal parking lot where a tower was proposed in Osborne Village?...was that a zoning issue.

Eman contacts me in various ways every few months about this.....he will never answer the question, why there are no towers being built in the area of Osborne Village where zoning allows it....if zoning is the issue, why are we not seeing them where there are no zoning restrictions?

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by trueviking

don't we now have an illegal parking lot where a tower was proposed in Osborne Village?...was that a zoning issue.

Eman contacts me in various ways every few months about this.....he will never answer the question, why there are no towers being built in the area of Osborne Village where zoning allows it....if zoning is the issue, why are we not seeing them where there are no zoning restrictions?

Even more to the point, it took forever to get a half-baked fugly parkade-apartment next to the osborne station, and that was a location where height and density were being expressly encouraged.

It's obvious that land values don't yet justify highrise development in most areas, even OV.

[FactaNV]

Also, what's wrong with 6 story builds? Is missing middle not exactly what we need? It's cheaper to build = cheaper rent, has similar densification values in terms persons per sq km, is human scale and honestly, looks nicer. Go for a walk in Old City Paris or London or Greenwich Village for that matter and then walk down wall street, what feels more comfortable and inviting for humans? I'm taking mid rise at human scales and street interactions every single time. If the city could build tens of thousands of units in 4-8 story buildings in the inner suburbs and outer downtown areas along with some strategic high rises in the core, we'd be so much better for it. More small new build bungalows and du/tri/quadplexes are also needed because at the end of the day, no one wants to rent forever, people want to own.

[BAKGUY]

Originally Posted by trueviking

Here is what I know for downtown:

Some Railside buildings are in for development permit. It's happening this year.

10 Storey building in the Exchange.

10 Storey Building in the Exchange. (we've seen this one)

12 Storey building.

14 Storey building.

12 Storey building.

McLaren Hotel Addition - 10-12 Storeys?

This does not include the resumption of the True North Hotel, which is now one slightly taller tower....or the 9 Storey building on Portage East....or the completion of the 14 Storey tower at Donald/St. Mary.

I am happy to hear that.
But no hi-rises?
It was suggested, I think by Biff that 2 tall buildings were on the horizon for downtown?
I am guessing a couple more interest rate reductions might encourage that if at all to even be a possibility?

[eman]

Originally Posted by trueviking

Oh Eman....again?

Everyone loves towers...i love towers....i want them everywhere....

the reason we don't have towers everywhere in Winnipeg is NOT ZONING.



Here's a fun little bit of information I wanted to share here....it really puts things into perspective.

I am right now working on a large two-building project. One building is 16 storeys....one building is 6 storeys....both are concrete block structural construction...the same mechanical, and electrical requirements....they have the exact same cladding.....tthe exact same number of units and square footage....they have the same site constraints and schedule requirements....it is a pure apples to apples comparison.

THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS ONE IS A TOWER AND ONE IS NOT.

the tower costs 23% more.

This is why developers do not build towers....we have cheap land....it is far cheaper to build 6 story buildings, even concrete ones, than iit is towers....its the market dictating it, not zoning.

I have no doubt about what you are saying about the current costs and viability
of that project.

Eveything about it IS affected by zoning as zoning limited the supply of available land for development. Just a fraction of OV is zoned high density and most is low density. These limits on density affect the property values. With a life cycle of about 60 years run down properties should be contenders for an upgrade in density. By limiting supply the smart money goes into renovations so the single family home is more likely to stay single family and the property already zoned high density is not likely to be upgraded either. Tokyo's has a higher turnover and each life cycle is more likely to lead owners to upgrade the density than simply renovate as zoning has much more flexibility. Over time population grows significantly compared to Winnipeg or any other NA city providing a flow of new people and customers to new businesses. Starbucks leaving OV is a sure sign that OV is not growing enough in addition to the crime they blamed it on.

[WildCake]

Originally Posted by eman

I have no doubt about what you are saying about the current costs and viability
of that project.

Eveything about it IS affected by zoning as zoning limited the supply of available land for development. Just a fraction of OV is zoned high density and most is low density. These limits on density affect the property values. With a life cycle of about 60 years run down properties should be contenders for an upgrade in density. By limiting supply the smart money goes into renovations so the single family home is more likely to stay single family and the property already zoned high density is not likely to be upgraded either. Tokyo's has a higher turnover and each life cycle is more likely to lead owners to upgrade the density than simply renovate as zoning has much more flexibility. Over time population grows significantly compared to Winnipeg or any other NA city providing a flow of new people and customers to new businesses. Starbucks leaving OV is a sure sign that OV is not growing enough in addition to the crime they blamed it on.

Let's wait until the seas of surface parking lots on the already high-rise zoned downtown Winnipeg disappear to developments before blaming our current zoning as the true limiters to density in Winnipeg.

[EdwardTH]

eman, you're not wrong that our zoning is outdated and I especially love the point about incremental development & adaptability - this used to be very central to how neighbourhoods grew.

Love the spirit but you're missing some key details and gotta dial it back quite a bit.

1. Japan has had negative population growth for 4 decades. It's easy to maintain enough housing stock when your population doesn't grow.
2. For the economic reasons explained above, changing zoning will not make big towers suddenly pop up all over Osborne village.
3. Even if those towers did pop up, the camps on the riverbank are not going to just disappear. It's not like those people can just pack up their tents and put a $2k deposit down on a nice brand-new apartment.