DENVER | Transportation Thread

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by vblack

Any chance of a reasonable discussion on the potential for the imminent arrival of autonomous electric vehicles?

Autonomous cars are not imminent on a large scale. Even advocates have backed off the "they're almost here" rhetoric over the past year or so, as problems have cropped up and as less-than-flattering safety records have started to become statistically significant.

A good analogy is self-checkouts at the grocery store. That's a $4 billion/year industry, with decades of research behind it and gigantic economic incentives to get right. Quite mature. The first ones showed up in the 80s, and only about 10 years ago did the tech get good enough for widespread use. But "good enough" still kind of sucks, as anyone who's ever heard "UNKNOWN ITEM IN THE BAGGING AREA!" can attest. The problem is, it turns out that developing something that's 90% as good as a human is relatively easy, but developing something that's 100% as good as a human (or better) is very hard.

And while 90% is good enough for a grocery checkout, because nobody gets killed when they have an UNKNOWN ITEM IN THE BAGGING AREA, for cars it has to be better than 100%.

So we're not there yet, and nobody really knows when we'll get there, except that we can say pretty authoritatively that you should not hold your breathe.

[Darius C]

Bye bye, bus rapid transit of Colfax! Hello, nicer benches! (I might be wrong but it is hard to imagine they will go for both projects.)

https://www.9news.com/article/traffi...2-1bbc2c61c24e

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by Darius C

Bye bye, bus rapid transit of Colfax! Hello, nicer benches! (I might be wrong but it is hard to imagine they will go for both projects.)

https://www.9news.com/article/traffi...2-1bbc2c61c24e

They’re two separate projects, BRT being Denver and the 15L improvements being RTD, and both will be implemented. IIRC, the stop Improvements mentioned in the article are for the 15L, while BRT would replace the 15.

[TakeFive]

Good news for Lyft

Down here Lyft has been aggressive and grown market share. I see Lyft as doing a good job of being an 'everyman' service. I favor Uber as capturing more of the Scottsdale/business crowd. Whether flying in for regular business or conferences Uber seems to dominate this crowd. I typically have my 'next trip' lined up before I even drop off my current ride. If I'm gonna drive I prefer staying busy. When I need my 'old guy' breaks I merely tap 'stop further trip requests'. And when I want to watch an NBA game then I don't drive.

Lyft only operates in the U.S. and Canada (as opposed to Uber's global footprint) so they've strategically worked to gain market share in these markets. Seems to be working. The business of both companies is growing exponentially. It's a very fascinating business model.

[Darius C]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

They’re two separate projects, BRT being Denver and the 15L improvements being RTD, and both will be implemented. IIRC, the stop Improvements mentioned in the article are for the 15L, while BRT would replace the 15.

Thank you for the clarification!

[SnyderBock]

Originally Posted by Darius C

Thank you for the clarification!

Why would the BRT lanes and stations not be used by all the bus routes on the corridor?

[mr1138]

Originally Posted by SnyderBock

Why would the BRT lanes and stations not be used by all the bus routes on the corridor?

I had the same question, but then just remembered that local service usually cannot use center-running lanes very easily. Usually it's the express service that gets replaced by BRT though, not the local service. Wouldn't that actually be the 15L and not the 15?

In any case, the enhanced shelters and lighting, curb extensions, and expanded boarding areas all make sense to me - presumably these would all be transfer points with future BRT stations. I'm curious about the queue bypass lanes though - perhaps these will be re-striped again after the center lane is taken for BRT?

[PLANSIT]

Operational changes for 15L include TSP (at 16 intersections), queue jumps, and bypass lanes. These elements, along with several bus bulbs (where feasible) will help to keep both the 15L and 15 running more efficiently. 15L will be getting the new enhanced shelters.

BRT, more specifically the center-running exclusive lanes, will house both the 15 and 15L. These two routes will each stop at all BRT stations within the center-running section. Outside of the center-running section, the two routes will operate much like they do today, stopping at their respective 15 and 15L stops and bifurcating on the East (Sable) and West (Broadway/15th) ends. Much like Central section of LRT between Broadway and Osage.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by PLANSIT

Operational changes for 15L include TSP (at 16 intersections), queue jumps, and bypass lanes. These elements, along with several bus bulbs (where feasible) will help to keep both the 15L and 15 running more efficiently. 15L will be getting the new enhanced shelters.

BRT, more specifically the center-running exclusive lanes, will house both the 15 and 15L. These two routes will each stop at all BRT stations within the center-running section. Outside of the center-running section, the two routes will operate much like they do today, stopping at their respective 15 and 15L stops and bifurcating on the East (Sable) and West (Broadway/15th) ends. Much like Central section of LRT between Broadway and Osage.

That makes good sense now that I've got the picture. In fact it sounds ideal; I had wondered about how both routes would be impacted if/when centerline lanes happen.


My Beloved

High Line Canal Trail will be getting two strategically needed underpasses. The first one is at Colorado Blvd and Hampden Ave while the second underpass will be at Mississippi and Parker Rd.

Hampden/Colorado is a collaboration among Denver and Arapahoe Co (Cherry Hills Village) and assuming NEPA environmental approval the project will begin late this year. Project area depiction. Hot Tip: walking the trail through Cherry Hills Village is much more enjoyable than biking.

Final design for the underpass at Mississippi and Parker Rd is pending with construction anticipated to start in the Fall. Project area depiction.

What's really nice about living nearby to the High Line Canal (I've done it twice - Univ Hills and Windstream) is the exercise, the scenery and there's no fuss with downtown congestion.

[COS]

I lived in Windstream area for a couple years as well, and the high line canal trail was so crucial to me being able to continue to ride my bike to work downtown. Nice to see there are more improvements coming!

[rds70]

G Line opening April 26th:

http://www3.rtd-denver.com/elbert/ne...x.cfm?id=11689

[TakeFive]

How 'bout that!

Originally Posted by rds70

G Line opening April 26th:

http://www3.rtd-denver.com/elbert/ne...x.cfm?id=11689

It sounds like RTD has confidence that a software re-write or updates will get the positive train control system working closer to expectations. I'll speculate the the costs are being shared among three parties: RTD, DTP and whoever 'owns' the software rights since all three stand to benefit. RTD mends it reputation with a better functioning train, the software developer will be in a stellar position to sell more of it's software and Fluor Corporation can take the corrected software to its next project which is the Maryland Purple Line where they are also leading the private partnership. Who knows, perhaps Fluor will find a way to recoup some of its Denver costs via the Purple Line since they will be spared the embarrassment that Denver has suffered.

[TakeFive]

Calling all bike-to-work enthusiasts

It's not just drivers you should be concerned with. How many of you have road hazard insurance? Ouch!

[jbssfelix]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Calling all bike-to-work enthusiasts

It's not just drivers you should be concerned with. How many of you have road hazard insurance? Ouch!

Dumb hypothetical question: Could the city be held liable for creating an unsafe environment for the cyclist?

[Cirrus]

It's not a dumb question. The answer is no, as long as the environment the city creates is compliant with engineering standards like AASHTO, which basically exist to remove liability.

There's probably a better case to sue AASHTO for adopting unsafe standards. That would be an uphill battle too, but it strikes me as potentially less settled than the alternative.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

It's not a dumb question. The answer is no, as long as the environment the city creates is compliant with engineering standards like AASHTO, which basically exist to remove liability.

There's probably a better case to sue AASHTO for adopting unsafe standards. That would be an uphill battle too, but it strikes me as potentially less settled than the alternative.

I'm gonna take a stab that w/o acknowledging any liability that the city ponies up to help with the (uninsured) medical costs.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

It's not a dumb question. The answer is no, as long as the environment the city creates is compliant with engineering standards like AASHTO, which basically exist to remove liability.

Even if they're not up to third-party standards, governmental (sovereign) immunity is strong in Colorado. Basically, you can't sue the king for doing what the king does.

You could, however, vote. Problem is, so can I, and what you call a safe street, I call an inconvenient one to drive on.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Even if they're not up to third-party standards, governmental (sovereign) immunity is strong in Colorado. Basically, you can't sue the king for doing what the king does.

You could, however, vote. Problem is, so can I, and what you call a safe street, I call an inconvenient one to drive on.

BTW, they've started on 'my' freeway widening to 10 lanes. Interestingly, 8 lanes isn't that much since nobody wants to drive in the right lane unless they're exiting or entering the freeway. That only leaves two general purpose lanes plus the HOV lane.

Metro Phoenix, though is in danger of going the way of Los Angeles. Apparently 'hundreds' of companies are now looking at Phoenix to relocate or expand. Metro areas to the SE are already seeing congested freeways even where there's already 10 lanes.

Denver will work better with its densifying downtown; they just need a few urban light rail routes added is all.

[Denver Dweller]

https://denverite.com/2019/04/02/den...2yhls4lSV4eJ1o

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Denver Dweller

https://denverite.com/2019/04/02/den...2yhls4lSV4eJ1o

That Eulois Cleckley has quite the sense of humor.

The consolidation will save $7.3 million annually, which Cleckley said will fund transport projects.

They'll still pick up the garbage etc but the new umbrella structure of Department of Transportation and Infrastructure will grow the transportation group from 120 to 1,100 employees working on transportation. No doubt there will be many hard-working, well-deserving public servants who are rewarded with higher pay-grade status. So while we'll save $7.3 million over here we'll spend many times that over there.

After about three years of talk, Denver will join major cities like Chicago, New York and Washington, D.C., all of which have transportation departments.

Hardly peer cities and btw Denver lies West of the Mississippi not east. But cities like Phoenix, Portland and Seattle which are all west of the Mississippi also have their own transportation departments. Even our good friend from Sacramento, CastleScott, benefits from SACDOT. Just sayin'.

Of course Sachs wants to impress us of the pending more efficient roll out of badly needed bike lanes and then proceeds to prove his point by offering a photo as an example:


Photo by Kevin J. Beaty/Denverite

Indeed the bike congestion is umm... nvm.

I have no objection to the changes and it should be able to bring better results. It sounds like they figure to save money by sub-contracting out less to the private sector and doing more of the work in-house. Maybe they'll save on a per project basis but color me skeptical. In fact I'll guess this avenue is more costly over the long term and cutting ties to the private sector has its drawbacks.

Ultimately their success will be dependent on additional funding from taxpayers above the existing plate of ~$450 million Elevate Denver projects already in the pipeline.