The Official Moncton, NB Project Thread

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Scarface

Dumont Hospital, and Moncton Hospital have a deal that seems to put patients needs first. 2 new MRI machines to be added to the current 2 at Dumont, and the province is to up the operating budget to make this work. With this it wont matter if you are a patient of the Moncton Hospital, or Dumont. You will be able to go to either one where an MRI is available. They are saying this deal has been in the works for years, and will cut wait times significantly.

Personally I was place on an "Emergency" wait list for an MRI, and waited almost 9 months, and would have had to wait longer if a spot had not suddenly opened up.

I won't delve into the Machiavellian political perambulations over this issue, as this would take several pages to entail. Suffice it to say that medical politics in Moncton have a heavy ethnolinguistic overlay, and the least important factor in deciding how services are delivered and where services are delivered is actual patient need.

Just to clarify, the Dumont will have two MRIs (one refurbished). The Moncton Hospital will have one MRI (despite having the provinces longest waiting list). The only way to get this imbalance approved was to ensure access by Moncton Hospital physicians (including radiologists) to the second Dumont magnet. This has been successfully negotiated and this should help with the outlandish Moncton Hospital waiting list.

FWIW, there is a fourth MRI unit in Moncton, located at the private clinic on Mapleton Road.

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Just to clarify, the Dumont will have two MRIs (one refurbished). The Moncton Hospital will have one MRI (despite having the provinces longest waiting list). The only way to get this imbalance approved was to ensure access by Moncton Hospital physicians (including radiologists) to the second Dumont magnet. This has been successfully negotiated and this should help with the outlandish Moncton Hospital waiting list.

FWIW, there is a fourth MRI unit in Moncton, located at the private clinic on Mapleton Road.

Having recently spent a lot of time at both hospitals (mostly City) I will say that the staff have been fantastic but the City Hospital infrastructure and building (save the new ambulatory care/clinic space) is really showing its age. When I muse those "If I were a billionaire" threads, one place I'd certainly consider throwing a lot of money at is the resources of the City Hospital... None of my issues are acute enough to jump queues or anything like that, but I feel for the people who wait on lists for months and years for things that in the US would have been done in a few weeks, tops.

[Sunnybrae]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I won't delve into the Machiavellian political perambulations over this issue, as this would take several pages to entail. Suffice it to say that medical politics in Moncton have a heavy ethnolinguistic overlay, and the least important factor in deciding how services are delivered and where services are delivered is actual patient need.

Just to clarify, the Dumont will have two MRIs (one refurbished). The Moncton Hospital will have one MRI (despite having the provinces longest waiting list). The only way to get this imbalance approved was to ensure access by Moncton Hospital physicians (including radiologists) to the second Dumont magnet. This has been successfully negotiated and this should help with the outlandish Moncton Hospital waiting list.

FWIW, there is a fourth MRI unit in Moncton, located at the private clinic on Mapleton Road.

It's not just medical politics that deal with ethnolinguistic overlays but like they say, if you don't like it, leave...... and that happens more than people realize. It's just not politically correct to talk about it so shush.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Sunnybrae

It's not just medical politics that deal with ethnolinguistic overlays but like they say, if you don't like it, leave...... and that happens more than people realize. It's just not politically correct to talk about it so shush.

Indeed. I have attempted to render my opinion in the most politically correct manner that I could think of. I will expound no further, lest risking consequences.......

[Delusio Cogno]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

lest risking consequences.......

spoken like a true maritimer...

What I don't understand about your post is why Moncton doctors would have to beg to use services in Moncton in the first place. Why was negotiation needed? Don't we have two bilingual hospitals, run by one provincial government, serving one bilingual population? Or was MH trying to get access to the 2nd GD MRI ahead of patients referred by family doctor offices?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Delusio Cogno

What I don't understand about your post is why Moncton doctors would have to beg to use services in Moncton in the first place. Why was negotiation needed? Don't we have two bilingual hospitals, run by one provincial government, serving one bilingual population? Or was MH trying to get access to the 2nd GD MRI ahead of patients referred by family doctor offices?

Again, a very complex topic, which at it's very essence boils down to power and control, and which ethnolinguistic group wields the power and control. Needless to say, the Moncton Hospital is not the most politically powerful hospital in Moncton at present (and likely will never ever be again in the future). The complexity of this issue extends beyond Moncton, and is partly an intercity issue as well (especially with Saint John). The labyrinthine politics involved is so convoluted it makes your head hurt.

I won't say any more. I'm not as anonymous on this forum as I would like to be. Maybe after I retire (in about five years time) I'll write an expose.........

[Ammn_guy]

I just don't understand why it cant all be one bilingual system..schools hospitals etc, everyone pushes bilingualism.. but then they push protectionism after ... segregated services.. etc. IE they don't practice what they preach, its is so ignorant of the bigger picture (look at bc serving like 5 languages). Things like the trouble making language commissar should not exist.
It flows both ways... "Learn my language but don't take away my special services". its a mind numbing waste of time and money. like the 6 mostly empty school buses that ply my road every morning. Sad.

Being a middle class family and taxed to the extreme, the waste of my money in the province is very vexing.

Its useless to talk about it though....i

(disclaimer: francophone family, with kids in English schools)

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Again, a very complex topic, which at it's very essence boils down to power and control, and which ethnolinguistic group wields the power and control. Needless to say, the Moncton Hospital is not the most politically powerful hospital in Moncton at present (and likely will never ever be again in the future). The complexity of this issue extends beyond Moncton, and is partly an intercity issue as well (especially with Saint John). The labyrinthine politics involved is so convoluted it makes your head hurt.

I won't say any more. I'm not as anonymous on this forum as I would like to be. Maybe after I retire (in about five years time) I'll write an expose.........

[theshark]

MonctonRad, What are your toughts on merging the two hospitals? You just need to say yes or no lol. I mean there is a duplication of service, expertise and equipment that we really cannot afford. So you could have 3 mri machine at the same place, serving everyone, no down time, french and english people in and out all day, i feel this would be more effective. Same would be with other services.

Theres is a way to make this work while respecting everybody's language rights.

Edit: seems like me and Ammn_guy where thinking the same this morning lol

[Taeolas]

Speaking as an outsider, merging the hospitals would make all the sense.... and be political suicide across all levels for anyone pushing for it; much like pushing to amalgamate the 3 cities into one.

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

Speaking as an outsider, merging the hospitals would make all the sense.... and be political suicide across all levels for anyone pushing for it; much like pushing to amalgamate the 3 cities into one.

NB in a nutshell.

[MonctonRad]

What are your toughts on merging the two hospitals? You just need to say yes or no lol. I mean there is a duplication of service, expertise and equipment that we really cannot afford. So you could have 3 mri machine at the same place, serving everyone, no down time, french and english people in and out all day, i feel this would be more effective. Same would be with other services.

Theres is a way to make this work while respecting everybody's language rights.

I would not be adverse to the concept of making the Moncton region a third health care authority (separate from Vitalite & Horizon), with a special bilingual mandate, locating certain specialized services at the Moncton Hospital and other specialized services at the Dumont Hospital. This would encourage cooperation and discourage unnecessary duplication.

This concept however will never fly, mostly because of power and control issues. For some individuals and special interest groups, the concept of sharing control is absolutely inconceivable.

As some activists have been known to state - "not one step backwards, ever!!!!!"

[Sunnybrae]

I was just in a ward at the Moncton Hospital visiting someone. All I could hear in the other three beds was french being spoken. I don't care about them being there but I did wonder, why are you not at the Dumont? Whats the point of the two systems? If I was francophone, I would go to the Dumont. Is there something wrong with the hospital?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Sunnybrae

I was just in a ward at the Moncton Hospital visiting someone. All I could hear in the other three beds was french being spoken. I don't care about them being there but I did wonder, why are you not at the Dumont? Whats the point of the two systems? If I was francophone, I would go to the Dumont. Is there something wrong with the hospital?

Some Acadians would never set foot in the Moncton Hospital. They are making a political statement by their blind devotion to that "other" institution.

Most Acadians don't care much one way or the other. They may have Anglophone spouses. They may have Anglophone physicians or have been referred to a specialist at the Moncton Hospital because of the needs of their medical condition. Perhaps they entered the health care system because they presented at the Moncton Hospital ER (we have the better emergency room - no question). There are lots of reasons why francophones can end up admitted at the Moncton Hospital, and they are all welcome to be here.

Conversely, there can be lots of reasons why Anglophones may end up receiving care at the Dumont, most notably because of their radiation oncology service. They will also receive excellent care there.

The main difference between the Dumont and the Moncton Hospitals is that at the most fundamental level, the Dumont is just as much a political organization as it is a medical one. They play politics exceedingly well and have SJW allies who are not beyond shaking up the political landscape every six months or so, just to keep the local politicians wary and off balance. Because of this, it is virtually impossible for any politician to say or do anything which could possibly be construed in any way other than being pro-Dumont.

[Sunnybrae]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Some Acadians would never set foot in the Moncton Hospital. They are making a political statement by their blind devotion to that institution.

Most Acadians don't care much one way or the other. They may have Anglophone spouses. They may have Anglophone physicians or have been referred to a specialist at the Moncton Hospital because of the needs of their medical condition. Perhaps they entered the health care system because they presented at the Moncton Hospital ER (we have the better emergency room - no question). There are lots of reasons why francophones can end up admitted at the Moncton Hospital, and they are all welcome to be here.

Conversely, there can be lots of reasons why Anglophones may end up receiving care at the Dumont, most notably because of their radiation oncology service. They will also receive excellent care there.

The main difference between the Dumont and the Moncton Hospitals is that at the most fundamental level, the Dumont is just as much a political organization as it is a medical one. They play politics exceedingly well and have SJW allies who are not beyond shaking up the political landscape every six months or so, just to keep the local politicians wary and off balance. Because of this, it is virtually impossible for any politician to say or do anything which could possibly be construed in any way other than being pro-Dumont.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I'm fairly ignorant about a lot of this.

[Scarface]

I remember being told by people much older that there was an attempt at Amalgamation both french, and english schools Never was I told that anything else was being placed in the spot light but the person who pushed against amalgamation happen to be a member of the english school board, and his reasoning as stated was that some students would be left behind.

I've actually talked to friends about where we were at in language studies, and it seems the english schools are the ones behind as they where doing grade 10-11 work in both languages that we had done in 3rd, and 4th grade. It's ridiculous. It seems to be a very large disservice to the students, and even to staff in a way.

I will point out the reason for the George Dumont Hospital to exist is also rooted in education as Quebec had ban French Speaking Atlantic Canadian from getting there degree in Quebec, and the D.G.L.D. Hospital was a compromise for french speaking hospital staff's education/on the job training.

At least from what I have been told

[Sunnybrae]

Until the education system in NB is pumping out 100% all bilingual students, there should be segregation. Otherwise, when you make systems like hospitals or whatever bilingual, then your telling half the population, sucks to be you but you will never get a job here. And people are not suppose to get bitter about that? Well they do... and they end up moving out west or to Halifax or where ever. I know half my family doesn't live here anymore because of this BS and if I had the opportunity, I would leave too.

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by Sunnybrae

Until the education system in NB is pumping out 100% all bilingual students, there should be segregation. Otherwise, when you make systems like hospitals or whatever bilingual, then your telling half the population, sucks to be you but you will never get a job here. And people are not suppose to get bitter about that? Well they do... and they end up moving out west or to Halifax or where ever. I know half my family doesn't live here anymore because of this BS and if I had the opportunity, I would leave too.

If you're not bilingual then you just need to aspire to get a job outside of government departments or government run institutions.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Ammn_guy

I just don't understand why it cant all be one bilingual system

Because New Brunswick isn't bilingual - it has French areas and English areas. There are very few actually bilingual areas, and protectionist language policies will almost always favour the minority.

Almost all areas in NB have a heavy slant (80%+/-) towards one language over the other. There are very few de facto 50/50 areas, and of those Francophones are far more likely to speak English than vice versa.

Language trends have been continuing, though, and raw first-language Francophone numbers are decreasing whilst French-majority areas become geographically tighter and smaller with each census.

[Franco401]

Separate hospital systems would actually be OK, as they could be regional. As long as you can still get service in both languages, 4 or 5 systems works.

The problem is splitting the system directly along what's already the biggest political divide in the province, English-French.

[Delusio Cogno]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Because New Brunswick isn't bilingual - it has French areas and English areas.

I don't care what language my doctor speaks. If I'm dying please heal me. And if I need an MRI, and I am one one in greatest need, I should be first in line for whatever ethnolinguistic machinery is available.

The problem comes when someone with an allergy cannot communicate that to the medical staff and they prescribe a deadly cure. The French speakers need French care-takers. The English speakers needs English care-takers. And it is cheaper to hire one bilingual person that to hire two of each.