Phoenix Development News (3)

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by xymox

The ‘its hot’ argument has shut down Sky Harbor on two occasions.

I don't have a strong opinion either way on the amusement park issue, but heat has never shut down Sky Harbor Airport. On two occasions, airlines have decided to temporarily halt takeoffs because the temperature was literally off the charts in terms of how specific aircraft in their fleets would perform in those conditions. In June 2017, it was American Airlines commuter affiliates grounding their regional jets. In June 1990, the restrictions on takeoffs were more widespread, but even then, aircraft continued to land at the airport. Unfortunately, a lot of media coverage has oversimplified the issue with erroneous headlines like "airport shut down" or "planes can't fly." The only time I can recall a total cessation of flights at Sky Harbor was in the aftermath of 9/11.

[KEVINphx]

Originally Posted by pbenjamin

For a theme park to be anything more than a local attraction like Castles and Coasters or Legend City it has to pull people in from other places, i.e. vacationers. The prime time to take a trip to visit a theme park is summer when school's out. Why would anyone from outside of Arizona want to come here in the summer when it's 110 when they could just as easily go to California? The reason that theme parks work in cold climates is that their summers are relatively comfortable. The heat is exactly the reason why a theme park will never work here.

One big flaw in your point you've made;

1. Phoenix High-Season for out of town tourists/vacationers & conventions & events is NOT during summer during the "prime time" as you call it. That is true of many families when choosing when to travel - that is, unless they're coming TO Phoenix - summer is NOT where we get most of our tourism dollars as it stands - so a theme park of any sort would be seeing most out-of-town visitors during our Fall-Winter-Spring season anyhow.

2. the 6,000,000 people in the Phoenix-Tucson areas combined could potentially support a larger local attraction through summer if it were seen as something that could compete with an out-of-town vacation for local families - especially those that can't necessarily afford to go out of state (of which there are arguably a large percentage in AZ) - I think our local population would provide enough patronage to keep things open through the short June-September season . . . it's not as though it'd have to close all together like many in cold climates do, even if certain rides are closed/inoperable at times. In a cold climate, it's not uncommon for attractions to close from October/November through April/May . . . no one bats an eye.

[KEVINphx]

Originally Posted by pbenjamin

For a theme park to be anything more than a local attraction like Castles and Coasters or Legend City it has to pull people in from other places, i.e. vacationers. The prime time to take a trip to visit a theme park is summer when school's out. Why would anyone from outside of Arizona want to come here in the summer when it's 110 when they could just as easily go to California? The reason that theme parks work in cold climates is that their summers are relatively comfortable. The heat is exactly the reason why a theme park will never work here.

Another counter-point you've provided opportunity for;

One could argue that the reason a theme park could work in hot climates is due to the relatively comfortable and mild Fall-Spring season. No one's coming here when it's 110 anyway haha

I'd also argue that people from metro-Phoenix might really consider a local, legitimate theme park (nothing like Castle's N Coster - they should really drop the S because there's only ONE coaster there) with multiple thrill rides etc where you feel like an escape from daily life and could spend a whole day or more VS. going out of town - especially when you can combine a visit to a theme park & a local resort with summer special rates & you'd have a pretty sweet "staycation" to market to the local market - which is already pretty successful I might add - so again, I really do think we have the demographics to support one at this point - especially if it's decent and not some piss-poor excuse for an "amusement park" otherwise yes, those local dollars will keep going to California and elsewhere. And yes, I acknowledge the argument that there will always be locals who will choose California in summer over a staycation even if it IS just as good an amusement park & even cheaper at home - precisely because it's COOLER by the ocean :-D haha - you'll never keep those tourism dollars at home in this city! Some of us just need a respite from the summer

[pbenjamin]

Originally Posted by KEVINphx

Another counter-point you've provided opportunity for;

One could argue that the reason a theme park could work in hot climates is due to the relatively comfortable and mild Fall-Spring season. No one's coming here when it's 110 anyway haha

The primary audience for theme parks is families with school age children. Said children are attending school during those relatively comfortable periods. The tourists who come during the peak season in winter are more apt to be empty nesters who come here for golf and spring training. Schools do have a week off for spring break, but family trips are much more common in the summer, when, as you say, no one's coming here.

[azliam]

Originally Posted by pbenjamin

The primary audience for theme parks is families with school age children. Said children are attending school during those relatively comfortable periods. The tourists who come during the peak season in winter are more apt to be empty nesters who come here for golf and spring training. Schools do have a week off for spring break, but family trips are much more common in the summer, when, as you say, no one's coming here.

Extreme and adventure sports are becoming more popular with all age groups, not just children or even school age children for that matter.

[haux]

I worked at Cedar Point for three summers in the early 2000s. Our orientation taught us that most visitors came from Detroit. That's believable. It's only a few hours away and is a large city. I don't know if that's the case now or if it's changed places with Cleveland, but most of the people who visit are relatively local.

I think an amusement park would work here. I'd love one to work here. But it would have to be grand (to compete with Disney) and everything would have to have an indoor line (like Universal Orlando). The rides can be outside and riders would be fine being in the sun and heat for a minute or two, but waiting would be the killer. Air conditioning and shade are a must. The midways would have to be tree lined or shaded. Trees are nicer, but then there's that water thing.

I just don't see it as feasible when there are so many quality parks in Southern California. There's history drawing them there. Disneyland, Hollywood, beaches, celebrity. People are already there; they built the parks for more entertainment. Casa Grande? That's a tall task.

Anyway, here are a couple of photos from the Stewart project. The eighth floor is well underway. And we have our first glass!

[Classical in Phoenix]

Thanks for the pictures.

[biggus diggus]

Am I understanding correctly that the lower floors that are parking also have some apartments? Someone who knows more about concrete construction can explain to me maybe how they allow for the flex in the garage yet still have stable apartments on the same level.

[fawd]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

Am I understanding correctly that the lower floors that are parking also have some apartments? Someone who knows more about concrete construction can explain to me maybe how they allow for the flex in the garage yet still have stable apartments on the same level.

I was generally thinking the same thing all along. 44 Monroe, for example, has seven levels of parking. Keep in mind, 44 has a MUCH smaller footprint.

With such a large footprint, I really didn't think the Steward needed so many floors of parking!

[Buckeye Native 001]

Originally Posted by haux

I worked at Cedar Point for three summers in the early 2000s. Our orientation taught us that most visitors came from Detroit. That's believable. It's only a few hours away and is a large city. I don't know if that's the case now or if it's changed places with Cleveland, but most of the people who visit are relatively local.

I grew up in Cincinnati and visited Cedar Point just once in July or August 1996, and that was because my family knew we'd be moving to Phoenix before that winter and went just to say we'd visited. Living on the opposite end of Ohio was certainly a hindrance.

Then again we had Kings Island, which is no slouch, but is nowhere close to being the kind of park that is Cedar Point (ironic that the company that owns and operates Cedar Point bought Kings Island within the past decade).

[Classical in Phoenix]

From a renovated warehouse to a high rise with Vallye-wide views, check out these 4 coworking spaces that are switching up downtown's office culture. Read: https://t.co/UCH4M5vhPm #yesphx #dtphx https://t.co/tZFIdUAPcH

Some in depth info on some of the collaborative space downtown.

[fawd]

1) New mural is finished on the south side of the Heard Building. Viewable going up central. Artists did a great job!

2) New... orange things... are installed around the exterior Duncan Doughnuts building. Almost like bar-top tables?

3) Speaking of area around Duncan Doughnuts. three homeless people were standing on 3 of the 4 corners of Central/Adams shaking cups of change at people. Annoying.

[KEVINphx]

Originally Posted by pbenjamin

The primary audience for theme parks is families with school age children. Said children are attending school during those relatively comfortable periods. The tourists who come during the peak season in winter are more apt to be empty nesters who come here for golf and spring training. Schools do have a week off for spring break, but family trips are much more common in the summer, when, as you say, no one's coming here.

RIGHT - and you seem to be missing or ignoring the part where I state that I believe you could capture a large percentage of LOCALS (6,000,000 people between PHX & Tucson) during summer vacation season . . .

Might I ask - who in the hell is attending Mid-Western & Southern theme parks in the Summer aside from regional travelers anyhow? I've never heard of someone going to those places solely to see a theme park aside from perhaps Disney in Florida - otherwise, it's typically coinciding with family-visit type vacations etc

Go to any resort here in the valley in winter and you'll find plenty of families vacationing here even if there isn't a summer break and even if they aren't the majority of our visitors.

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by KEVINphx

RIGHT - and you seem to be missing or ignoring the part where I state that I believe you could capture a large percentage of LOCALS (6,000,000 people between PHX & Tucson) during summer vacation season . . .

Might I ask - who in the hell is attending Mid-Western & Southern theme parks in the Summer aside from regional travelers anyhow? I've never heard of someone going to those places solely to see a theme park aside from perhaps Disney in Florida - otherwise, it's typically coinciding with family-visit type vacations etc

Go to any resort here in the valley in winter and you'll find plenty of families vacationing here even if there isn't a summer break and even if they aren't the majority of our visitors.

Well, this is not the primary focus of Midwestern or Southern theme parks. Yes, they have children's themed sections, but the majority of Cedar Fair, Six Flags and other theme parks are geared towards thrill seekers that want to ride the newest, fastest, tallest and greatest rides they can. These parks do not compete with Disney, Dollywood, Universal, SeaWorld, etc. which are family oriented parks and have moderate rides with more emphasis towards visual design elements that appeal to kids and families.

You go to Cedar Point for one thing...to ride coasters...and maybe hit the water park while your there. That's what it's known for. There are not any mom and dads with their kids lining up to ride Top Thrill Dragster or Millennium Force. Also, these parks rely heavily on repeat visitors with season passes. That's where they make their money at.

For some reason, I just don't see Phoenix being this kind of thrillseeker town. I think the population is too high with retirees and empty nesters. Yes, empty nesters like me will go...but not all will. Most out-of-state migrants have moved here for Arizona nature and weather. I think a park is going to not only compete with California amusement parks, but will compete have to compete with it's own state's tourist attractions (Grand Canyon, Sedona, Superstitions, Tombstone, etc.). That's going to be tough IMHO.

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by fawd

I was generally thinking the same thing all along. 44 Monroe, for example, has seven levels of parking. Keep in mind, 44 has a MUCH smaller footprint.

With such a large footprint, I really didn't think the Steward needed so many floors of parking!

The Stewart will have apartments on the lower garage levels fronting Central Ave. The garage is actually about 2/3rds of the footprint.

[stutteringpunk]

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

Well, this is not the primary focus of Midwestern or Southern theme parks. Yes, they have children's themed sections, but the majority of Cedar Fair, Six Flags and other theme parks are geared towards thrill seekers that want to ride the newest, fastest, tallest and greatest rides they can. These parks do not compete with Disney, Dollywood, Universal, SeaWorld, etc. which are family oriented parks and have moderate rides with more emphasis towards visual design elements that appeal to kids and families.

You go to Cedar Point for one thing...to ride coasters...and maybe hit the water park while your there. That's what it's known for. There are not any mom and dads with their kids lining up to ride Top Thrill Dragster or Millennium Force. Also, these parks rely heavily on repeat visitors with season passes. That's where they make their money at.

For some reason, I just don't see Phoenix being this kind of thrillseeker town. I think the population is too high with retirees and empty nesters. Yes, empty nesters like me will go...but not all will. Most out-of-state migrants have moved here for Arizona nature and weather. I think a park is going to not only compete with California amusement parks, but will compete have to compete with it's own state's tourist attractions (Grand Canyon, Sedona, Superstitions, Tombstone, etc.). That's going to be tough IMHO.

I don't think that's the case at all, especially since a similarly high-retiree state like Colorado has their own small scale coaster park. Just because a portion of the people moving here do it for the scenery and weather doesn't mean those folks wouldn't be interested in theme parks anyways. Having a theme park to go to when the weather is finally nice is one the biggest draws to building one here. You have more options to spend the day available to you.

As it stands, whether it be do to geography or sprawl, the valley doesn't offer as many ways to spend your time compared to other metropolitan areas. Yes, there's mountains like Camelback and the Superstitions, and Sedona and the Grand Canyon are ~3 hours away, but not everyone enjoys hiking. A theme park, in whatever capacity, can cater to as many people as possible and allow families to potentially spend full days in a place that generally isn't as strenuous to get around. Not to mention, it's much easier to make a day trip out of an hour or so drive to Casa Grande than it is to make the full trek out to California.

[CrestedSaguaro]

So, I posted a while back about 200' building obstruction evaluation for the Kierland area. The obstruction was approved and now shows a little more detail. The permit shows "Proposed to build an approximate 200 foot tall mixed-use building of hotel, residential, office and commercial uses.".

I'm trying to find more information on the development. But it is not part of the Optima development.

Overview

Study (ASN): 2017-AWP-13007-OE
Prior Study:
Status: Interim

Letters:


Received Date: 12/20/2017
Entered Date: 12/20/2017
Completion Date: 01/31/2018
Expiration Date:
Map: View Map


Sponsor Information Sponsor's Representative Information

Sponsor: Kurt Jones
Attention Of: Kurt Jones
Address: 2525E. Camelback Road
Address2:
City: Phoenix
State: AZ
Postal Code: 85016
Country: US
Phone: 602-452-2729
Fax: 602-255-0103


Representative: Tiffany & Bosco
Attention Of: Kurt Jones
Address: 2525 E. Camelback Road
Address2:
City: Phoenix
State: AZ
Postal Code: 85016
Country: US
Phone: 602-452-2729
Fax: 602-255-0103


Construction Info Structure Summary

Notice Of: CONSTR
Duration: PERM (Months: 0 Days: 0)
Work Schedule: 03/01/2019 to 05/01/2021
Date Built:


Structure Type: Building
Structure Name: DMB Circle Road Partners LLC
FCC Number:



Structure Details Height and Elevation

Latitude (NAD 83): 33° 37' 37.00" N
Longitude (NAD 83): 111° 55' 36.00" W
Horizontal Datum: NAD 83
Survey Accuracy: 4D
Marking/Lighting:
Other Description:
Current Marking/Lighting: None
Current Marking/Lighting Other Description:
Name:
City: Phoenix
State: AZ
Nearest County: Maricopa
Nearest Airport: SDL
Distance to Structure: 5129.95 feet
On Airport: No
Direction to Structure: 286.8°
Description of Location: Northwest corner of Kierland Blvd. and Scottsdale Rd.
Description of Proposal: Proposed to build an approximate 200 foot tall mixed-use building of hotel, residential, office and commercial uses.

[biggus diggus]

DMB is Bennet Dorrance's company, not associated with Optima.

[CrestedSaguaro]

Not really big news, but I will post it anyway since it's something. The lot across the street from where I work just had a For Sale sign posted over the weekend. This is the empty lot on the Northeast corner of Central and Mitchell next to the upside-down pyramid building. It's a smaller lot though and it doesn't appear to include any of the surrounding structures. So, hopefully if it sells, something creative can be placed there outside of a single use/single floor building.

[muertecaza]

Plan Review Documents filed today:

• Preliminary review for 223 units at the Central/Columbus parcel previously discussed during rezoning
  
• Pre-application for 14-story (!!!), 198 unit project at 3rd Ave./Fillmore, 601 N. 3rd Ave., given name "Aspire Fillmore Apartments". Applicant is CCBG Architects.

14 stories at 3rd Ave./Fillmore would be awesome. I would want to live there. Couple blocks to Roosevelt, couple blocks to Crescent/Van Buren, couple blocks to light rail. Hope this one pans out.