DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[Denveropolis]

Originally Posted by jimijam35

i rather see them bulit on most of the pepsi center parking lot than move Elitch for now- pepsi center can built parking garage north of the can with bars/resturant. And pepsi center naming right is coming up- HELLO Amazon Center

Wonder why Broncos delayed a name change for Sports Authority Field for one year????

[PLANSIT]

Denver is already in talks about Amazon headquarters “mega prospect”


Denverite

Mayor Michael Hancock would like Denver to be the site of Amazon’s second headquarters.

Seattle-based Amazon announced this morning that it would build a second main campus for as many as 50,000 employees in North America. It’s looking for metro areas that can offer at least 1 million people, a “strong technical talent pool,” and preferably some financial incentives, as Recode reported.

Denver fits that description, and the city already was exploring the possibility as of Thursday afternoon.

“Amazon is a leading innovator, and we’re excited about this headquarters expansion opportunity,” Hancock said in a written statement released to Denverite...

[CherryCreek]

Originally Posted by PLANSIT

Denver is already in talks about Amazon headquarters “mega prospect”


Denverite

To be clear, I read the "Denver is already in talks" to mean Denver is talking with other development stakeholders in Colorado regarding potential responses to the RFP, and not as "Denver is already talking to Amazon."

The exact quote is :

“This is a mega prospect and we have already initiated conversations with our economic development partners at the state and regional level to thoroughly consider the best possible fit for Denver and the region.”

[DenverInfill]

Originally Posted by jimijam35

i rather see them bulit on most of the pepsi center parking lot than move Elitch for now- pepsi center can built parking garage north of the can with bars/resturant. And pepsi center naming right is coming up- HELLO Amazon Center

This was my thinking. The parking lots around the Pepsi Center would be better than Elitch's. No need to relocate Elitch's first. Since the same entity owns both the Pepsi Center and Elitch's, the Amazon redevelopment could be view holistically for both sites together.

Interesting that the City just started a redevelopment planning process for exactly the Pepsi/Elitch's site. It was because Kroenke said they want to develop a building on one of their parking lot sites along Speer. Maybe that was the reason put forth, but secretly they had Amazon in mind.

[Meliorem]

I see Denver as one of just four perfect suitors with all boxes ticked. Austin, Raleigh-Durham and Washington D.C being the other three. Austin's formal bid will obviously play on the possible synergy of having the HQ of Whole Foods and Amazon HQ2 in one city. It remains to be seen how much that will play a role as Amazon is very much a jack of all trades, increasingly so.

Will be interesting to follow.

[comoneymaker]

I for one don't want it. One I bet they build some massive complex out in the burbs forcing more sprawl. Two we are blowing up beyond acceptable rates now.

[seventwenty]

So what is an acceptable rate then?

[Ich]

Just curious but what does Denver have up on Austin.... As much as I'd want it to be Denver, wouldn't Austin make more sense? Especially having Whole Foods HQ there?

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Ich

Just curious but what does Denver have up on Austin.... As much as I'd want it to be Denver, wouldn't Austin make more sense? Especially having Whole Foods HQ there?

One of the best airports in the country although not as good as DFW. Couldn't say how important that is but it's often more important than we'd think. It definitely made a difference with Davita.

[DenverInfill]

Originally Posted by Ich

Just curious but what does Denver have up on Austin.... As much as I'd want it to be Denver, wouldn't Austin make more sense? Especially having Whole Foods HQ there?

Transit. Austin's transit system is a generation behind Denver's.

[mhays]

With job multipliers (wild guess 3:1) this is like 200,000 jobs. And that's like 400,000 residents, including a substantial inflow of overseas tech talent.

Some of that would effectively replace jobs that would have happened (like jobs that don't come because the city is more expensive and locals aren't as available) but a substantial part would be net additive. There's no way to figure that out of course, so it's all guesswork.

The current 40,000 going on 80,000 has had a massive impact on Seattle for a full decade, starting with 500,000 sf and maybe 3,000 people back then. Any city smaller than we are will probably be even more changed.

The scale issues make me think Denver has a chance but Austin is a longshot. Something like Dallas (the "opposite type" theory) or Chicago might be the front runner.

But who knows. It might be about which of the leading candidates gives up the most.

[BG918]

Originally Posted by Ich

Just curious but what does Denver have up on Austin.... As much as I'd want it to be Denver, wouldn't Austin make more sense? Especially having Whole Foods HQ there?

The Rocky Mountains and our climate are far superior to anything in Texas. They do have some nice lakes and a few decent beaches.

[CherryCreek]

To me, Pepsi/Center/Elitches is the most obvious site for an Amazon complex on this scale.

Are there any others that could work? I think we have lots of surface lots still in the Uptown/Arapaho Square area that, in combination could work, though not nearly as neatly as Pepsi/Elitches.

The other I could see is Brighton Blvd (to be renamed - Amazon Blvd), where there is still plenty of land that could be assembled for a state of the art campus (perhaps near or part of World Trade Center).

From the Amazon RFP and its culture/history in Seattle, I would think Aurora and Tech Center are not viable, but who knows.

[twister244]

Originally Posted by CherryCreek

To me, Pepsi/Center/Elitches is the most obvious site for an Amazon complex on this scale.

Are there any others that could work? I think we have lots of surface lots still in the Uptown/Arapaho Square area that, in combination could work, though not nearly as neatly as Pepsi/Elitches.

The other I could see is Brighton Blvd (to be renamed - Amazon Blvd), where there is still plenty of land that could be assembled for a state of the art campus (perhaps near or part of World Trade Center).

From the Amazon RFP and its culture/history in Seattle, I would think Aurora and Tech Center are not viable, but who knows.

One would think RiNo could be a great place, but is there really enough consolidated land to support something of this size? By the time a decision is made on this, several parcels of land will have been either bought up by different developers, or already under developed. If you drive along Brighton these days, it's quite astounding how it's almost developing it's own mini skyline with the Catalyst project and Source Hotel going up. Not that it couldn't be done, but the Elitche's space seems to make the most logistical sense.

[TakeFive]

I'm skeptical that Elitches or the Pepsi Center is even available or viable.

Elitches will presumably need some environmental remediation; not sure how much or the time factor involved. Not that it matters but Kroenke only owns a partnership share that I'm not sure has ever been reported as to percentages.

With respect to the Pepsi Center why would Kroenke have any interest in selling? Worth noting is the Houston Rockets are selling for $2.2 Billion which exceeds the $2 billion price that Ballmer paid for the LA Clippers. While the Nuggets aren't worth that much Kroenke also owns the Avalanche (and Mammoth). Maybe Kroenke might have intrest is some form of joint venture, hard to say. More likely is that the site is not for sale.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by CherryCreek

To me, Pepsi/Center/Elitches is the most obvious site for an Amazon complex on this scale.

Are there any others that could work? I think we have lots of surface lots still in the Uptown/Arapaho Square area that, in combination could work, though not nearly as neatly as Pepsi/Elitches.

The other I could see is Brighton Blvd (to be renamed - Amazon Blvd), where there is still plenty of land that could be assembled for a state of the art campus (perhaps near or part of World Trade Center).

From the Amazon RFP and its culture/history in Seattle, I would think Aurora and Tech Center are not viable, but who knows.

The Gates redevelopment site is another possibility as well as the Denver Design District redo. Both of these sites could accommodate 8 million sq ft of development (not that I think this is remotely what a 2nd HQ will end up being), are pedestrian friendly, have good highway access, great mass transit connections, and would catalyze the entire south Broadway corridor.

[CherryCreek]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

I'm skeptical that Elitches or the Pepsi Center is even available or viable.

Elitches will presumably need some environmental remediation; not sure how much or the time factor involved. Not that it matters but Kroenke only owns a partnership share that I'm not sure has ever been reported as to percentages.

With respect to the Pepsi Center why would Kroenke have any interest in selling? Worth noting is the Houston Rockets are selling for $2.2 Billion which exceeds the $2 billion price that Ballmer paid for the LA Clippers. While the Nuggets aren't worth that much Kroenke also owns the Avalanche (and Mammoth). Maybe Kroenke might have intrest is some form of joint venture, hard to say. More likely is that the site is not for sale.

Stan Kroenke if a real estate investor - that's what he does. I assume his partners are real estate investors.

See https://www.bisnow.com/national/news/com...-know-about-nfl-owner-stan-kroenke-55197

He had the foresight to assemble a huge piece of prime real estate directly adjacent to a booming central business district and public transport - probably one of largest such parcels in the country. Nobody believes he bought Elitch's cause he likes roller-coasters.

This may well one of the single most significant "real estate" development opportunities in US history. I would think this "real estate guy" will have an interest in this real estate deal, and that some sentimental attachment to a rapidly aging sports arena with limited remaining shelf life is not going to keep him from being interested in this deal.

He can keep Pepsi Center there during the initial development and later integrate a new arena into the project. He doesn't have to sell the Nuggets/Avs to sell the real estate. Hell with 50,000 employees Amazon may well see Pepsi Center as a feature, not a bug.

[Robert.hampton]

Originally Posted by Ich

Just curious but what does Denver have up on Austin.... As much as I'd want it to be Denver, wouldn't Austin make more sense? Especially having Whole Foods HQ there?

As others have noted the transit -- both public transit and the airport -- give Denver a huge advantage. The fact executives from Seattle could hop one of more than a dozen non-stop flights to Denver and then take a train to the office is pretty huge. Transit alone should put Austin out of the running (assuming Amazon is serious about it). DIA also carries (transit accessed) non-stop flights to Tokyo, Panama City and half a dozen European cities.


Denver also has a larger talent pool to draw from, although the labor market is tighter than in Austin. Both Austin and Denver are 'in' cities, but I think denver has a bit stronger draw for talent recruitment.

And not sure about Austin's current layout but as has been discussed, Denver has several options for campus-sized development that is right downtown and steps from public transit (Arapahoe Sqaure, Elitches, 38th and blake area)

[TakeFive]

CherryCreek... Not sure if you're thinking of Kroenke selling the land, developing it for Amazon or doing some type of joint venture. Likely only the third option would interest Kroenke.

Kroenke is as much a sports franchise investor as real estate developer/land owner. He has managed to acquire the real estate for his franchises except for maybe the Arsenal which I can't speak to. Whether he gives a wit about Amazon I couldn't say.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Robert.hampton

As others have noted the transit -- both public transit and the airport -- give Denver a huge advantage. The fact executives from Seattle could hop one of more than a dozen non-stop flights to Denver and then take a train to the office is pretty huge.

Agree and it may be that Whole Foods being in Austin is irrelevant. Worth noting is that nobody has been able to compete with Texas incentives when Texas set their sights on winning. Their ability to cut through red tape is impressive. My assumption is that Dallas is as likely as Austin as a landing place. Yet, I also assume that an east coast city may be the preference.