The future of Hamilton's public transit

[adam]

In addition to LRT, we should have a shared carpool/cycling/ebike lane on the wider parts of Main and King.

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by mic67

Thanks for the info. of Ham.'s LRT.

Dever[sic] and Portland are mutil[sic] times larger than Ham.

I don't know where you are getting the idea that Portland is multi-times larger than Hamilton. Portland has an urban population practically the same as Hamilton's. Geographically, Hamilton is much larger than Portland. Portland is 376 square kilometres, Hamilton is 1186 square kilometres.

[mic67]

http://www.travelportland.com/visito...d_profile.html


Population 568,380 (PSU Population Research center, 2007); 2.1 million in the Portland metropolitan area (U.S. Census, 2006)

Area 145 square miles (375 square kilometers)

So is the glass half full or half empty?

The City of TO proper, or as it use to be at one time is a heck of a lot different than what was or is Metro, there was city of TO then Metro council, though I am not up on any Munici. Politics or systems.

But I bet that the Portland services the 2.1 mil.

And Ham. area is that including greater Ham., for that size its got too. But even the greater Ham. does its pop even come close to that 2.1.?

Although when you said Portland I was thinking Seattle LRT system (or do they even have one?).

Mic67

[crhayes]

Originally Posted by mic67

I would not want to be a store front business owner, as for being a property owner on such a route is a 50-50 draw, to me at this point.

Mic67

Why wouldn't you want to be? You would be situated on a route that is guaranteed NOT to change for decades and carrying thousands of passengers by your business everyday.

Buses have a certain stigma that limit the types of riders that use them... how many white collar workers do you see using buses? Pretty much none, however there are tons that use trains (my dad being one of them). I would be willing to bet that they would be more willing to use LRT than BRT.

[omro]

Originally Posted by mic67

Population 568,380 (PSU Population Research center, 2007); 2.1 million in the Portland metropolitan area (U.S. Census, 2006)

From Wikipedia:

Portland, Oregon
Population (2008)
- City 575,930 (30th)
- Density 4,199.17/sq mi (1,640.30/km2)
- Metro 2,159,720

Hamilton, Ontario
Population (2006)[3]
- City 504,559
- Density 451.6/km2 (1,169.6/sq mi)
- Urban 647,634
- Metro 692,911

[flar]

MSA populations in the US are not directly comparable with CMA populations in Canada, there is a different methodology. The population density figures quoted are useless and not comparable at all. The density for Hamilton's urban area is 1763.13 persons/km2, which is the third highest in Canada behind Toronto and Montreal (yes, Hamilton's urban area is denser than Vancouver's, actually I'd say they are tied since Vancouver's density is 1720 km2)

The Portland Metropolitan area encompasses a region nearly as large as southwestern Ontario in two states (Oregon and Washington). Needless to say, Portland's LRT does not service that entire population.

If you add up Hamilton plus every municipality that directly borders Hamilton, the population is around 2 million (which is why Hamilton Health Sciences services a population of 2.2 million).

[adam]

Originally Posted by mic67

http://www.travelportland.com/visito...d_profile.html


Population 568,380 (PSU Population Research center, 2007); 2.1 million in the Portland metropolitan area (U.S. Census, 2006)

Area 145 square miles (375 square kilometers)

So is the glass half full or half empty?

The City of TO proper, or as it use to be at one time is a heck of a lot different than what was or is Metro, there was city of TO then Metro council, though I am not up on any Munici. Politics or systems.

But I bet that the Portland services the 2.1 mil.

And Ham. area is that including greater Ham., for that size its got too. But even the greater Ham. does its pop even come close to that 2.1.?

Although when you said Portland I was thinking Seattle LRT system (or do they even have one?).

Mic67

Yes, Seattle has the SkyTrain - I've also spent a couple days in Seattle and the SkyTrain is great. Mic, not to sound rude, but have you been anywhere other than Toronto?

[mic67]

omro
Ya I saw the wikki, but wouldnt it be more accurate to figure the Metro pop. or portland at 2.1 mil. pop. as listed by the site which is:
" A private non-profit destination marketing organization with a membership of more than 1,000 businesses, Travel Portland operates a busy visitor information center, supports a climate of year-round hospitality, and helps our city, state and region reap the rewards of a thriving visitor industry."

I dont know what is considered Metro Hamilton or Greater Hamilton.

"If you add up Hamilton plus every municipality that directly borders Hamilton", but wouldnt some of those actually be cities in their own right?

I means the sign says Stoney Creek but is that now considered Hamilton proper?
Does it have its own transit system? Like Burlington, and Oakville? How does flambrough fit in?

crhayes
"and carrying thousands of passengers by your business everyday."

Yep right on by your business to destinations like Jackson or Eastgate & Nash Road plaza.
mic67

[mic67]

adam
" Mic, not to sound rude, but have you been anywhere other than Toronto?"

I have probably been to more international places than in Canada.

Although I have been to the furthest most eastern point in North America, which was prolific, Cape Speer (spear?) in NFLD. It was as windy as heck and the rockscape looked like perfectly carved stones, leading into the ocean.
It reminded me of sailing in the Atlantic beyond the sight of land and did the "I am the king of the world" long before Leo De. did it.

London - has the greatest treasures in the World - Tate and National Gallery and Turners paintings
Amsterdam - is the most progressive and artistic -Van Gough
Paris - is romantic and has the spirit of life -Mona Lisa - why is she smiling
Rome - truly the centre of an empire at one time same with Vienna
The Cote du Azur the french riveria - is the blue coast and Nice has a pebble stone beach where St. Tropai has a soft sandy one, Monte Carlo is a one times enough visit, but you will know where the Formula 1 races happen and can walk it.

Driven US 1 on the California coast, very, very cool to watch the sea lions and sequioa's - from Mexico through Malibu to north of Hearst Castle.

USC the private university, UCLA the public one and has a much nicer campus....USC officially means University of Southern California but is know by those that attend as University of Spoiled Children, gee there were plenty of Merc.'s there driven by the students.

Ya I have been to Windsor, Wawa, Delhi, buffalo, etc.
Never been to the west in Canada yet.
Spent many summers in the glacial lake region, which is where I learned to sail, swim and just about every other outdoor activity.

Mic67

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by mic67

I dont know what is considered Metro Hamilton or Greater Hamilton.

Lets compare apples to apples. When LRT was introduced to Portland it serviced the city itself, a population of less than 500,000 at the time. This is not unlike the scenario Hamilton is considering right now. In fact, most of the Portland LRT network is still contained within the city borders.

Originally Posted by mic67

I means the sign says Stoney Creek but is that now considered Hamilton proper?

yes

Originally Posted by mic67

Does it have its own transit system? Like Burlington, and Oakville?

no

Originally Posted by mic67

How does flambrough fit in?

Same as Stoney Creek.

mic67 you seem to need to learn a lot about your adopted city. I suggest you take some time to read through this SSP and other resources such as myhamilton.ca where you'll find the answers you need to gain more knowledge about the city.

[mic67]

I probably know more of Hamilton than many who lived here all their lives, that is not to say I know it all or know enough. Trivia is not an interest of mine.

mic67

[go_leafs_go02]

as a non-hamiltonian, but goes to school there (part-time)

I will call your bluff on that.

[adam]

[mic67]

"I will call your bluff on that."

Huh...

Ok... there use to be a steam locomotive at the south east corner of Gage Park by the baseball diamond, its not there any more, anybody who knows hamilton would know that it was there as it is not an internet knowledge kind of thing. Any Hamiltonian into trains know what happened to it? We use to play hockey were the baseball diamond is, that is no more either.

mic67

[SteelTown]

It's at Westfield Heritage Village.

[mic67]

Thanks

Supposedly someone impaled themselves on the metal rod fence surrounding that locomotive. The chain link spikes around the baseball diamond is nicely covered.

mic67

[mic67]

http://www.westfieldheritage.ca/

Here is an image of that train.

http://home.mountaincable.net/~chuckd/
"Locomotive #103 is a 2-8-0 Consolidation type steam locomotive, built in 1910 by the Montreal Locomotive Works. It operated in South Central Ontario until 1956, when it was retired and put on display in Gage Park in Hamilton Ontario. The engine and tender sat in the park unsheltered for 21 years. "

Ok there is info on this train on the net. But only a Hamiltonian or someone who knew Hamilton would know that where in the park it was located.

Cool,

mic67

[flar]

Here is a picture of Portland's light rail:


picture by Segun http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=163111

[crhayes]

Originally Posted by mic67

Yep right on by your business to destinations like Jackson or Eastgate & Nash Road plaza.
mic67

That to me is faulty logic. If people wanted to go to Jackson or Eastgate they would get there regardless of whether there was LRT. You might as well say that you don't want your business on any bus route.

If anything being on a bus/LRT route helps your business even further just by the number of passengers looking out of their windows observing the shops along the way.... it's free (in a sense) exposure to the masses that use transit.

[mic67]

Flar
Thanks for the image. Although it is not a raised track like I understand the StClair will be in Toronto. And it appears that if no raised track then cars can have use of that throughfare? Or how does that work? In other words are the tracks only to be used by LRT or what? in ham.

As far as businesses go there is more to it that just that, like the opinion of the StClair business that have issues, I dont think any of them or very few (not the majority) of them supported the system on StClair, but that transport issue was not a hobby of mine so.... I could see and understand their point of view. But heck the state of King st. and empty stores, its not an issue - I guess.

" If people wanted to go to Jackson or Eastgate they would get there regardless of whether there was LRT."

Right. The LRT would give more of a reason to travel further and faster.

Again I am not against and LRT, in fact is is probably a good thing for Hamilton and furture proofs the city. But just because it is a good thing doesnt mean it is the right thing. What I am saying has been said before by others? I guess y'all made them give up...lol

mic67