Winnipeg City Transit/Rapid Transit

[Luisito]

Originally Posted by thurmas

Seriously who in their right mind would even want to work as a transit operator? You have to work split shifts your safety is constantly at risk nowadays and the pay is nothing to compensate for the terrible work conditions.

There was something in the news about that not too long ago. They are having a hard time recruiting new drivers.

[Kinguni]

Originally Posted by Biff

Not picking a fight or criticizing - just trying to understand. In the past I knew a couple transit drivers and they worked a split shift. 4 hours on - 4 hours off - 4 hours on. Wouldn't a 15 min break in the 4 hour "on" shift be accepted as ok? If the standard person works an 8 hour day they generally get two 15's and an hour unpaid lunch.

Just curious.

Some drivers work split shifts, others don't. Once the split is over 2 hours a small premium is paid to them. There are no "breaks". A payment of 40 hours pay is made in December in lieu of rest breaks. A driver doing a straight shift gets no actual breaks. Recovery time is scheduled into each run at its terminals, which some people think of as breaks, but it isn't. The operator still has charge of the bus. Operators will use this time to stretch, check for lost property, use a bathroom if there's one there, or eat a snack or lunch. At properties where operators do get breaks, it is at a terminal with no passengers, and usually a washroom and usually a room to sit down and eat lunch or a snack.

The purpose of recovery time is for the bus to make up any delays encountered on a trip. Sadly, many of the schedules have inadequate recovery time, on top of schedules based on running times from 2 years ago during the pandemic. Industry standard is 8 minutes per hour, WT is generally much less. Part of it is due to the shortage of operators, part of it is due to the Chief scheduler and the director wanting to do away with the "payment in lieu of rest breaks". They've been quoted as saying "if you want more recovery time, give up the rest break pay".

So, if you're wondering why so many buses are late these days, or not showing up at all, the reason is above. Without a schedule that cannot be adhered to due to poor scheduling, and without the recovery time to make up for unforeseen delays, buses run late, and when they are late enough, they are pulled from service to be put in service on time on another part of the route.

[Kinguni]

Originally Posted by Luisito

There was something in the news about that not too long ago. They are having a hard time recruiting new drivers.

Recruiting AND retaining. In Winnipeg it takes 4 years to reach the top hourly rate, which is considerably lower than that of Calgary or Edmonton who start at a higher rate, and reach top rate in 2 years. Many operators have gone to Calgary and Edmonton, most in their first year on the job, trained at a cost to Winnipeg taxpayers.

For Winnipeg Transit to recruit and retain enough operators several things need to happen, which won't happen with the current management team, most importantly the director. Wages and working conditions. Improvements to either will tip the scales. Wages to attract applicants and working conditions to retain them.

[Biff]

Thanks Kinguni for the detailed explanation of shifts. Much appreciated.

[Kinguni]

Originally Posted by Biff

Thanks Kinguni for the detailed explanation of shifts. Much appreciated.

My pleasure. It's really hard to describe without experiencing it. A lot of new operators have trouble understanding it and learn on the go. The reality comes as a big nasty surprise to them.

[borkborkbork]

So the "no rest breaks"... I have been on buses many times, especially late at night, and the driver seems to book it at top speed until they hit the Tim Hortons, where they go in and order food and a drink while everyone on the bus waits...

I wish they'd just schedule for operators to get breaks, because it seems like they're taking them anyway

[Kinguni]

Originally Posted by borkborkbork

So the "no rest breaks"... I have been on buses many times, especially late at night, and the driver seems to book it at top speed until they hit the Tim Hortons, where they go in and order food and a drink while everyone on the bus waits...

And they come back out to the bus as quick as they can. Eating and drinking is a human right. They are still in charge of the bus so please don't consider the 3 minutes they take to do this a break.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by Kinguni

And they come back out to the bus as quick as they can. Eating and drinking is a human right. They are still in charge of the bus so please don't consider the 3 minutes they take to do this a break.

Well of course it’s a break, don’t be silly. They should just be given proper scheduled breaks so they don’t have to do anything like that on the job. As noble as your assertion of eating and drinking being a right may be, I do not believe that the act of eating and drinking is a human right under any law anywhere.

[borkborkbork]

Originally Posted by Kinguni

And they come back out to the bus as quick as they can. Eating and drinking is a human right. They are still in charge of the bus so please don't consider the 3 minutes they take to do this a break.

"In charge of the bus": Left the bus running on the side of Pembina highway for 10 minutes with the door open at midnight.

We can agree I'm sure that it would be better for WT to just build in reasonable breaks so that they don't have to do unreasonable things.

[thebasketballgeek]

Winnipeg Transit just placed an order for up too 166 electric busses.

https://www.globenewswire.com/news-r...g-Transit.html

[zalf]

I know it's been litigated to death as to whether this is the best use of transit money vs attracting drivers/building infrastructure/building more diesel buses, and I tend to agree that electrics are the least efficient way of improving Winnipeg Transit.

On the positive side, the improved opex of electrics will definitely give WT some more budgetary wiggle room. There's also less chance of WT getting stranded in the future with replacement parts getting harder to find, or coping with smaller market for used diesels.

Another benefit I think is underrated is that it will make it more pleasant to live close to transit. My previous apartment was on the ground floor just a few metres from a transit stop. This was very convenient, but it made quality-of-life things like having the windows open on summer nights a non-starter when the buses would accelerate away and the engine would roar. I also breathed in more diesel exhaust than I would otherwise have liked.

[borkborkbork]

My guess is that the province doesn't want to fund transit but doesn't mind funnelling money to New Flyer (Soubry was a donor to Stefanson's leadership campaign).

[Winnipegger]

Transitioning to an electric bus fleet on its own will only result in marginal cost savings from not having to purchase volatile diesel and not having to pay carbon tax, and these savings will be miniscule in comparison to purchasing the electric busses themselves. Without intervention or incentives from higher levels of government, switching to electric is by far more expensive than maintaining a diesel fleet over the next several decades - especially in a fiscally constrained organization like Winnipeg Transit.

Where the true "cost savings" comes into play is government policy: if the provincial and federal government adopt green policies that ensure they will only contribute funding for transit initiatives (busses and infrastructure) that are electric, then maintaining a diesel fleet becomes a much more costly option relative to diesel, essentially forcing a switch to electric.

This is a good example on how high-level government policy objectives can be used to coerce organizations like municipalities to address negative externalities (carbon emissions) by swinging the financial math in favor of an otherwise more expensive option.

[Luisito]

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

Winnipeg Transit just placed an order for up too 166 electric busses.

https://www.globenewswire.com/news-r...g-Transit.html

Finally. Thats good news.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

Winnipeg Transit just placed an order for up too 166 electric busses.

https://www.globenewswire.com/news-r...g-Transit.html

waste of money.

Greenwashing environmental policy....

[wags_in_the_peg]

Originally Posted by trueviking

waste of money.

Greenwashing environmental policy....

is buying electric the only way to get any Fed $? thats my impression,

[trueviking]

possibly....or that the feds will pay for it so they are asking for it....still dumb way to spend our money.

I'd way rather spend the money on properly implementing the high frequency service model and its rapid transit lines.

[thebasketballgeek]

Originally Posted by trueviking

waste of money.

Greenwashing environmental policy....

I agree. With the cost it would take to buy all these electric busses and the necessary charging infrastructure they really should’ve secured the funds to built the three rapid transit lines instead which would do far more to reduce emissions.

Is there even any updates on the actual lines or is the city just going to tread water for another decade?

[bomberjet]

They're only committed to 16 buses or something like that. So there's still time to change the Cities mind.

[thebasketballgeek]

Councillor Mayes doubles down on his stance to try and bring light rail on the Main/St. Mary’s corridor.

https://beta.ctvnews.ca/local/winnip...1_6216704.html

Even if he might be NIMBY for the Glenwood residents I think with a mindset like this he is a positive for city council. I even sent him an email supporting his idea to try and bring light rail to Winnipeg as even 1 north-south route would transform the city greatly.