Phoenix Development News (3) - Page 587

pbenjamin · #**11721** Posted **Jan 18, 2018, 5:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obadno

I was surprised not to see North Carolina but im thinking Atlanta will take it.

Raleigh is on the list.

stutteringpunk · #**11722** Posted **Jan 18, 2018, 8:37 PM**

Where would a potential Apple campus even go? Park Central still seems like a mistake to me, and I'd honestly much rather have Tempe land the development.

Either way, hopefully the data center in Mesa gives AZ a leg up.

haux · #**11723** Posted **Jan 18, 2018, 9:49 PM**

I live near where the Stewart apartments will go, and it looks like it's rising about a floor every other week. That would put it on track to open at the end of the year. I like it. It's going to be a nice addition.

Obadno · #**11724** Posted **Jan 18, 2018, 10:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by haux

I live near where the Stewart apartments will go, and it looks like it's rising about a floor every other week. That would put it on track to open at the end of the year. I like it. It's going to be a nice addition.

Im liking our new forum friends.

Welcome!

CrestedSaguaro · #**11725** Posted **Jan 18, 2018, 11:02 PM**

[QUOTE=haux;8052126]I live near where the Stewart apartments will go, and it looks like it's rising about a floor every other week. That would put it on track to open at the end of the year. I like it. It's going to be a nice addition.[/Q

Thanks for the update! I think once the last level of garage is completed, the project will actually start going faster as there is less concrete for the residential portion. They also have started putting the framing in for the lower floors.

phxarchstudent · #**11726** Posted **Jan 18, 2018, 11:28 PM**

I'm not sure how I feel about Apple. Amazon appears to be intent on fully integrating into the city that wins HQ2. I fear that Apple would be less interested in that, as demonstrated by this article:

https://www.wired.com/story/apple-campus/

Not sure exactly how those problems would apply to Phoenix, given the differences in politics, demographics, etc, but they are real concerns that are all valid should Apple choose Phoenix for a new campus and not employ a radically different approach to its design.

combusean · #**11727** Posted **Jan 19, 2018, 3:13 AM**

They'd probably build the same damn thing in Chandler or Mesa.

More of the same for the local area, but definitely not as infuriating as doing it in Cupertino.

xymox · #**11728** Posted **Jan 19, 2018, 3:54 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by combusean

They'd probably build the same damn thing in Chandler or Mesa.

More of the same for the local area, but definitely not as infuriating as doing it in Cupertino.

Anything Apple does will be ‘suburban’ and not an urban make over like Amazon. The last time they were looking for sites for the campus that ultimately went to Austin’s, Phoenix was the runner up. The sites they were scouting were around Desert Ridge and the USAA campus on the north side of town. They are big on sites that are ‘shovel ready’ as they prefer to move quickly.

There was a comment here about how the lack of speculative office space would hurt us. Not sure how that would fit Apple - as they will want to build what fits them. But have to wonder if that hurt us for Amazon HQ2 - or if it was mainly a desire to be east coast.

Freeway · #**11729** Posted **Jan 19, 2018, 5:53 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by xymox

Anything Apple does will be ‘suburban’ and not an urban make over like Amazon. The last time they were looking for sites for the campus that ultimately went to Austin’s, Phoenix was the runner up. The sites they were scouting were around Desert Ridge and the USAA campus on the north side of town. They are big on sites that are ‘shovel ready’ as they prefer to move quickly.

There was a comment here about how the lack of speculative office space would hurt us. Not sure how that would fit Apple - as they will want to build what fits them. But have to wonder if that hurt us for Amazon HQ2 - or if it was mainly a desire to be east coast.

Maybe it was the fact that we are known for having one of the worst education systems in the country. I somehow don't think lack of spec office space was the issue.

Obadno · #**11730** Posted **Jan 19, 2018, 3:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freeway

Maybe it was the fact that we are known for having one of the worst education systems in the country. I somehow don't think lack of spec office space was the issue.

This is like the 4th time I've seen this.

As much lip service companies give to "education" you are talking about proposals from cities offering hundreds of millions if not billions in subsidies and incentives.

Hundreds of million if not BILLIONS of dollars.

I don't think a couple hundred dollars per student per year was the make or break decision.

**also there isn't a strong correlation between performance and expense. Arizona has some of the top Private (and public) schools in the country even with our low spending.

Obadno · #**11731** Posted **Jan 19, 2018, 3:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by xymox

Anything Apple does will be ‘suburban’ and not an urban make over like Amazon. The last time they were looking for sites for the campus that ultimately went to Austin’s, Phoenix was the runner up. The sites they were scouting were around Desert Ridge and the USAA campus on the north side of town. They are big on sites that are ‘shovel ready’ as they prefer to move quickly.

There was a comment here about how the lack of speculative office space would hurt us. Not sure how that would fit Apple - as they will want to build what fits them. But have to wonder if that hurt us for Amazon HQ2 - or if it was mainly a desire to be east coast.

Yes I want apple just for the economic impact not for any sort of urban development.

haux · #**11732** Posted **Jan 19, 2018, 8:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obadno

Im liking our new forum friends.

Welcome!

Thanks. Longtime member but seldom poster. I sort of stopped visiting after moving back to Arizona, but I moved downtown and wanted to keep up with the development, so I'm back.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

Thanks for the update! I think once the last level of garage is completed, the project will actually start going faster as there is less concrete for the residential portion. They also have started putting the framing in for the lower floors.

I should take photos as it goes up. I mean, I have been, but not really saving anything. It's going to block my view from my apartment's parking garage.

PhxSprawler · #**11733** Posted **Jan 19, 2018, 8:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obadno

This is like the 4th time I've seen this.

As much lip service companies give to "education" you are talking about proposals from cities offering hundreds of millions if not billions in subsidies and incentives.

Hundreds of million if not BILLIONS of dollars.

I don't think a couple hundred dollars per student per year was the make or break decision.

**also there isn't a strong correlation between performance and expense. Arizona has some of the top Private (and public) schools in the country even with our low spending.

Amazon was looking for a higher % of degree-holding citizens than we have in the metro, regardless of how well our suburban and private schools perform.

I'm sure it wouldn't have been a big issue for Amazon to squeeze hundreds of millions out of the state in tax benefits when it came time to implement. Amazon could take on the Goldwater institute with more fury than your standard developer.

Obadno · #**11734** Posted **Jan 19, 2018, 9:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhxSprawler

Amazon was looking for a higher % of degree-holding citizens than we have in the metro, regardless of how well our suburban and private schools perform.

I'm sure it wouldn't have been a big issue for Amazon to squeeze hundreds of millions out of the state in tax benefits when it came time to implement. Amazon could take on the Goldwater institute with more fury than your standard developer.

I just don't buy especially with multiple cities on their finalist list that certainly don't have good education.

CrestedSaguaro · #**11735** Posted **Jan 19, 2018, 9:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obadno

I just don't buy especially with multiple cities on their finalist list that certainly don't have good education.

Some of the finalists cities don't even have good mass transit systems and barely break the 1 mill mark in Urban Metro size. So, I have no idea why Amazon picked some of these.

somethingfast · #**11736** Posted **Jan 20, 2018, 1:20 AM**

Nobody is asking me but I believe Amazon discarded Phoenix for two simple reasons: 1) too far west (yes, Denver is still on the list but that's just because it's "cool", ha) and 2) Phoenix/Arizona is too "conservative". That's changing (for the worse imho) but, still, has a maverick "red" label associated with it. But, really, it's pretty obvious that Amazon will go east coast with it's choice. Sorry, Austin, Chicago, et al. It wants a "longer" business day and gets that on the east coast and, additionally, it's influence moves farther toward Europe while in Seattle it reaches farther toward East. So bet on Northern Virginia or Boston or Miami (sorry, Atlanta, too "red" also).

haux · #**11737** Posted **Jan 20, 2018, 1:44 AM**

Well, Amazon's a bust. That's not exactly bad. Anyway, here are some development photos from downtown earlier today.

The Arizona Center is going to look really modern and nice when it's done.

Block 23 is coming along.

Work has started on The Stewart's seventh floor.

The Stewart from the front.

somethingfast · #**11738** Posted **Jan 20, 2018, 2:28 AM**

Amazon is a bust, yes, but it may not be a bad thing. I suspect Amazon's demands upon the "chosen one" will be extremely burdensome. Basically, what Amazon represents in totality is a redistribution of wealth from the masses to the few. That is Amazon's legacy. Convenience and choice were the mere mechanisms by which Amazon became the behemoth that it is. Will Amazon benefit the chosen city? Probably, long term. But who knows? Amazon is playing a dangerous game...a future winner need only better them at their own formula. And then the roles are flipped. We shall see. I don't own any Apple products but I'd prefer Apple to Amazon as a corporate citizen.

stutteringpunk · #**11739** Posted **Jan 20, 2018, 7:02 AM**

Would you be able to get more Arizona Center pictures next time your around there, Haux? It's the one project we don't really see much progress on here.

Obadno · #**11740** Posted **Jan 20, 2018, 5:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by somethingfast

Nobody is asking me but I believe Amazon discarded Phoenix for two simple reasons: 1) too far west (yes, Denver is still on the list but that's just because it's "cool", ha) and 2) Phoenix/Arizona is too "conservative". That's changing (for the worse imho) but, still, has a maverick "red" label associated with it. But, really, it's pretty obvious that Amazon will go east coast with it's choice. Sorry, Austin, Chicago, et al. It wants a "longer" business day and gets that on the east coast and, additionally, it's influence moves farther toward Europe while in Seattle it reaches farther toward East. So bet on Northern Virginia or Boston or Miami (sorry, Atlanta, too "red" also).

Arizona is too red? Compared t Tennessee? North Carolina, Texas, Indiana, Georgia?

No Amazon is from a state with no state income tax, as “blue” As Washington allegedly is, it’s just Seattle in a deep red rural state.

It’s all about the money guys, all about the most incentive they can get.