The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Regardless of who the premier is, does it make sense financially for Alberta and Calgary to drop billions into a very very expensive transit project when their revenues are getting beat up?

Traffic in Calgary is a joke so the green line isn't desperately needed compared to how badly say Toronto needs the DRL, so I'd imagine that $5+ billion would be much better put towards.. oh I don't know, buying some oil cars or another refinery? Or maybe just to reducing the deficit.

It's also a joke compared to Montréal. The Orange Line is overcrowded. There are STM security agents to direct trafic during the rush hour at Berri-Uqam. People have to wait 4 or 5 trains before boarding.

https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-n...ers-wait-to-cram-onto-overcrowded-trains

[J.OT13]

Is it expected the REM and the CAQ proposed expansions will ease crowding? Hoping the Pink Line goes through.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Is it expected the REM and the CAQ proposed expansions will ease crowding? Hoping the Pink Line goes through.

From what I remember, the REM will relieve the Orange line by 10-15% but the Blue line extension will add 10-15% to the Orange line, so the crowding will just get worse over time.

The CAQ is now planning to due a "pink" REM line to the East, but on Notre-Dame instead with two branches, one to the future Anjou metro station via Radission station and the other one to Pointe-aux-Trembles. This is the best bet of a pink line if there's ever one.

[Taeolas]

So Fredericton is working on a new Transit Master Plan for the next 5-10 years, and Stantic released their report on Fredericton's current system and how it should grow going forward.

For people interested in stats, there are a lot of stats on the Fredericton system compared to systems in similar systems (Moncton, Brandon, Kingston, Lethbridge, North Bay, and Red Deer).

I'm only about a fifth of the way through the report so far; and so far I'm in agreement with it (despite having gotten a car a year ago and no longer being a transit rider). I am a bit disappointed that there doesn't seem to be more push for Sunday service. There are other reasons holding it back (current contract with the drivers make Sunday service 2x rate, making sunday routes expensive; especially since the Province doesn't provide any Transit support); but lack of Sunday service is possibly one of the biggest reasons I eventually got a car.

[CityTech]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

So Fredericton is working on a new Transit Master Plan for the next 5-10 years, and Stantic released their report on Fredericton's current system and how it should grow going forward.

For people interested in stats, there are a lot of stats on the Fredericton system compared to systems in similar systems (Moncton, Brandon, Kingston, Lethbridge, North Bay, and Red Deer).

I'm only about a fifth of the way through the report so far; and so far I'm in agreement with it (despite having gotten a car a year ago and no longer being a transit rider). I am a bit disappointed that there doesn't seem to be more push for Sunday service. There are other reasons holding it back (current contract with the drivers make Sunday service 2x rate, making sunday routes expensive; especially since the Province doesn't provide any Transit support); but lack of Sunday service is possibly one of the biggest reasons I eventually got a car.

^ Kingston is arguably the model city for small city transit in Canada; they've doubled ridership in the past few years. I'm not overly familiar with their system but from what I gather all they really did was.. wait for it.. add more buses to the road. More routes, better frequencies.

[J.OT13]

Confederation Line update.

Pimisi Art Work



Bayview



Parliament



uOttawa



Tremblay





https://www.ligneconfederationline.ca/news/construction-update-202/

Pimisi, Bayview and Tunney's in the distance


https://twitter.com/VVampoo/status/1066552565234458624

[Taeolas]

Originally Posted by CityTech

^ Kingston is arguably the model city for small city transit in Canada; they've doubled ridership in the past few years. I'm not overly familiar with their system but from what I gather all they really did was.. wait for it.. add more buses to the road. More routes, better frequencies.

Kingston is very similar to Freddy too, so it is a good one to use as a model. Kingston is basically from what I gather a University/Government/Highway/services city, much like Freddy is. Kingston also has about twice the people in its service area as Freddy (120k vs 60k according to the report).

From all the comments and most of the report I've read so far, Sunday service should be one of the biggest priorities, but budget and the Bargaining agreement with the drivers are the main hindrances for that, which push it to a medium term project instead of short term.

More routes isn't really a push, though that may be later in the report. More Frequency certainly is in the report and is probably the biggest thing it noted.

There is a strong push in the early part of the report to get the province involved too. New Brunswick does almost NO support for Public Transit in any of its cities, forcing cities to rely on municipal and federal support for their systems. This really curtails the Freddy Transit budget.

I haven't gotten far enough into the report yet but I'm also seeing hints that they are advising the city expand service beyond the city borders; which will need provincial support as well. The Lincoln route is basically hindered because it can NOT go out to the airport or to Oromocto. Just reaching Oromocto would probably really expand our service options, especially for routes in the Lincoln area.

Oh and on a related note, but independent of this report (maybe), the City Council here did announce that parking rates and expired/illegal parking fines are going to be going up in the coming years. They've been untouched over the past 8 years, and honestly do still seem a bit low (but I don't work downtown so its a moot point for me). But that was noted as one of the things the city could do to help improve transit numbers; to get people taking the bus for the work commute instead of driving and parking.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by CityTech

^ Kingston is arguably the model city for small city transit in Canada; they've doubled ridership in the past few years. I'm not overly familiar with their system but from what I gather all they really did was.. wait for it.. add more buses to the road. More routes, better frequencies.

Yes, Kingston has done a great job, and it was very noticeable when I went there in October that Kingston is now a transit city.

Basically, they have streamlined routes that increased ridership which enabled improved frequency. They did what most cities should do. Do a complete rethink of transit based on how the city now operates in the 21st century. Many cities just tinker with transit leaving them with a service that pretends its still the 1950s or 1960s.

Ontario only supports municipal transit through capital projects. Operations are funded by fares and municipal property taxes.

[Taeolas]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Ontario only supports municipal transit through capital projects. Operations are funded by fares and municipal property taxes.

Are you sure of that? The report from Stantic seems to indicate otherwise. This is on Page 34 of the big PDF they made for Freddy Transit:

Finally, while a large municipal contribution to transit funding is typical of Canadian transit properties, it is important to
note that provincial subsidies are also vital for public transit operations. While the federal government does not
provide operating subsidies, in provinces such as Ontario, the provincial government contributes 28% of the
operating subsidises; the rest comes from municipalities. The provincial government in Alberta provides little by way
of operating subsidies, less than 1%. Nevertheless, New Brunswick, typical of small, more rural provinces in the
Atlantic Canada, does not contribute operating funds to its municipal public transit providers. Furthermore, while
Ontario and Alberta contributed 67% and 55%, respectively, to capital costs of their public transit providers in 2016,
New Brunswick contributed 25%, depending mainly on federal (37%) and municipal (30%) contributions, as well as
8% from other sources. We note however, that Fredericton Transit did not receive any provincial contributions in
2016, and it is not clear how gas tax dollars have been distributed. As such, transit in New Brunswick depends
heavily on local funding, and as discussed in Surfaces to Services, lobbying the provincial government for operating
contributions would likely help in improving transit service. We believe the province needs to play an important
funding role particularly as Fredericton Transit seeks to expand its service frequency and quality.

[CityTech]

Ontario provides operarting subsidies to municipalities for transit through the gas tax program although it's nowhere near 28% of costs.. more like 10% I think.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by CityTech

Ontario provides operarting subsidies to municipalities for transit through the gas tax program although it's nowhere near 28% of costs.. more like 10% I think.

Yes, I forgot about that.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

To be fair to call it a redo is a huge understatement. Yes it is taking a long time much longer then expected but adding an extra level below an active railway station is no small feat. In fact it's the second busiest railway station in North America so adding a new level, upgrading all existing levels and restoring the heritage sections without causing any major disruptions is a massive undertaking.

Source: https://www.blogto.com

This is probably one of the most impressive transit projects in the entire country

[Calgarian]

In terms of the Green Line here, isn't it already underway? Cancelling the contract and taking the funding away would be pretty expensive and super bad optics for the UCP (should they get elected). Calgary traffic is a bitch (other cities may be worse, but that's beside the point), and it's only going to get worse with a bunch new suburbs approved, a bunch of which are in the deep SE.

[MalcolmTucker]

I've been assured the Green Line contract will be to a point where cancelling it would be financially ruinous.

[LeftCoaster]

Just happened in BC with the Massey Tunnel replacement.

Don't underestimate a government's ability to cause financial problems then blame them on the past party. That's like politics 101.

[Chadillaccc]

I don't think it would work in this case. If the UCP wins at all, it will be because Calgary swung back to blue. We are the primary provincial battleground in this election, and if they ever want to get elected again, they'll make sure to follow through on the Green Line.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Just happened in BC with the Massey Tunnel replacement.

Don't underestimate a government's ability to cause financial problems then blame them on the past party. That's like politics 101.

The contract in that case was only at the shortlisting stage.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Don't underestimate a government's ability to cause financial problems then blame them on the past party. That's like politics 101.

I think it's going to be a long shot for Notley to get re-elected, and I assume Kenny will go all Trump and blame Notley for every single problem in this province, and his mouth breathing followers will just eat that BS up.

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

I don't think it would work in this case. If the UCP wins at all, it will be because Calgary swung back to blue. We are the primary provincial battleground in this election, and if they ever want to get elected again, they'll make sure to follow through on the Green Line.

Given how much it's been truncated, I don't think it's an election breaking issue anymore.

It would help significantly if the next update expected in January would clearly lay out where Phase 2 is going, when it could be built and how much it would cost. Or in other words, confirm that Phase 2 will be 16th Avenue to Beddington/96th. Otherwise I don't see how there's going to be much support in the NC communities.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

The contract in that case was only at the shortlisting stage.

The main build contract yes, but piling and preloading construction work had already begun. All just money dumped down the tubes by the NDP.

Just sayin don't expect a government to make a rational decision, be they blue, red, or orange.