Phoenix Area Stadium and Arena News

[combusean]

It's pretty hypocritical for Scottsdale to routinely approve intensive midrise districts in that part of Scottsdale and then get mad when something in Phoenix continues a predictable pattern of development along its side of Scottsdale Rd.

The traffic the arena will generate is nothing compared to everything else that's going on in that area, the majority within Scottsdale itself.

[ASUSunDevil]

Whoa:

https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/...-part-nhl-plan

[plinko]

^Wouldn't surprise me at all. It even keeps the divisional alignments the same. Each owner gets a nice fat check for their vote and they get a guaranteed rabid market with no arena issues.

And I won't feel sorry for the City of Phoenix at all if it happens because they completely f*cked over Tempe all over sales tax dollars (it had nothing to do with safety, and neither did the Cardinals Stadium).

This is a region that cannibalizes itself repeatedly.

[ASU Diablo]

Originally Posted by plinko

^Wouldn't surprise me at all. It even keeps the divisional alignments the same. Each owner gets a nice fat check for their vote and they get a guaranteed rabid market with no arena issues.

And I won't feel sorry for the City of Phoenix at all if it happens because they completely f*cked over Tempe all over sales tax dollars (it had nothing to do with safety, and neither did the Cardinals Stadium).

This is a region that cannibalizes itself repeatedly.

City of Tempe (Council and voters) and the Coyotes have no one to blame but themselves for the failed vote. Yes, COP had a hand in it w/ Sky Harbor concerns but this is all on Tempe and for the Coyotes thinking they had this vote in the bag.

[PHX31]

So Utah gets a relocated cursed franchise and they can do what they want with it (hopefully ultimately build a nice arena and become a long-term established franchise for many years).

Then hopefully the Phoenix market gets a new arena situation figured out and an expansion franchise that can be named the Coyotes and they'll have a new arena and can be a long-term established franchise for many years. I would worry Meruelo could buy the land at auction and develop a huge project with an arena to make it all happen. But it sounds like he or someone will have to do it.

[N830MH]

Well, then. I have nothing to say about this. It’s time to say goodbye to Arizona Coyotes. We will bid farewell to them. I’m sure they will miss Arizona Coyotes.

[combusean]

That article leaves out many key details...

Smith, the "deep pocketed" owner, had to lead a group to buy the Jazz which didn't come with a massively inflated price tag that the Coyotes do. The coyotes potential purchase price of $1.3 billion by Smith would be about twice what they're worth in a good season, with an arena, neither of which are presently the case, which coincidentally enough is the same cost as the Kraken relocation fee that the article merely glosses over. Even before everything else, there simply isn't much upside potential to a relocation deal.

The arena vote in the Utah legislature was to *authorize* raising the sales tax in SLC itself by suburban Republicans that wouldn't pay the tax or be liable for it. Majority blue SLC would still have to vote to tax itself by a whopping .5% for 30 years and I simply don't see that passing on its own.

There's literally no benefit for the average SLC taxpayer and significant risk to the city at large. These deals just don't fly for the most part in 2024, this isn't the 1960s anymore where cities are tripping over each other to write subsidy checks for professional sports, in addition to inflationary and recession fears that aren't going away anywhere.

There isn't a booster sports economics study in the world that would justify a second arena in SLC, let alone one right downtown competing with Delta Center.

An NHL team in SLC means getting in line with everything else going on in SLC during the winter, including the Jazz. If I were a minority owner of the Jazz I would be fighting tooth and nail to protect my investment from both a potentially bigger sport and my privately funded arena from a publicly funded juggernaut right in my neighborhood.

The Delta Center is a non starter for NHL hockey. The Coyotes didn't even bother trying to go to Phoenix with their tail between their legs to play at Footprint Center which has the exact same problems that Delta Center does for hockey. The comparisons elsewhere to Key Arena's conversion for hockey are similarly irrelevant. Key Arena wasn't "renovated" it was entirely reconstructed while preserving the roof and didn't have a tenant the whole time. They've gone out and released renderings of this supposed renovated arena in SLC on top of talking about building another and it just defies reality.

Why Smith thinks SLC is special here, on top of every other factor, is beyond me. He seems to have this small town arrogance that rubs me the wrong way, and it wouldn't surprise me if he was hiding cracks in the deal or his partnerships. I have a hard time believing nobody's tried to tell him this project is a waste of money, a bad idea, or just utterly infeasible.

[Comrade]

The tax won't come up for a city-wide vote. It'll just need to be approved by the Salt Lake City Council. Not a guarantee but pretty likely since the mayor supports it.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by Comrade

The tax won't come up for a city-wide vote. It'll just need to be approved by the Salt Lake City Council. Not a guarantee but pretty likely since the mayor supports it.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2024/03/...with-terrorist

Here's a glimpse of how bad things got in Utah on the MLB stadium front which seems to be directly interconnected with the NHL vote that took place at the same time. There is no plan for an NHL venue yet but the right to raise a citywide sales tax of 0.5% to cover around ~$500M of a new venue is in place.

I see a lot of public sentiment acting like SLC is some type of fantasyland where the roads are paved in gold and billions upon billions of dollars are readily available for new venues and teams.

I guess we'll see but my bet is this gets ugly.

[ASU Diablo]

Originally Posted by locolife

Think about this for a minute, he paid $300 million for the team 4.5 years ago.
There has been endless rumors swirling of other rich people who will do anything to get a team.

As a savvy business man, Alex said, okay pay me over 300% more than I paid for the team and it's yours.... this is the classic, make me an offer I can't refuse then. He called out these big mouths from other states saying fine, go for it. They didn't happen and the Yotes seem to be focused on moving forward with the land auction. More news came out on that this evening.

The public auction date for the land was set today, it will take place on June 27th.

- To ensure that the process starts as quickly as possible if the team places the winning bid on the land, the Coyotes have already secured Gensler as the architect on the project and AECOM Hunt as general contractor.

- There is full commitment to buy the land, and to the extent that there will be other bidders, to outbid them and move forward with this project

- During the 2023-2024 season at Mullett Arena – a year when the team showed some promise at the beginning of the season but will miss the playoffs yet again – the team has had five games with gate revenue at $1 million.

Damn man, you poked the bear and these out of state big mouths took the bait LOL jk

From what I have read and heard on AZ Sports and other media outlets, sounds like this is pretty much a done deal.

The most likely scenario is the team (Meruelo gets to keep the Coyotes name, logo, etc) gets sold to the NHL then to SLC Group and Meruelo still moves forward w/ the arena plan and if succeeds, Phoenix gets awarded an expansion team in 2027. However, this ownership group has been extremely tone-deaf through this entire ordeal and their social media presence has not helped. I don't think current Valley fans would support an expansion team being led by Alex Meruelo and I don't blame them.

[PHX31]

Originally Posted by ASU Diablo

The most likely scenario is the team gets sold (get to keep the Coyotes name, etc)

If this is the case, I really hope the Utah group would change the name and logos. While there are Coyotes in Utah, the kachina coyote is one of the best and most unique logos and really wouldn't fit up there in northern Utah. I hope it's not a Utah Jazz situation, which obviously still makes zero sense.

And from the Phoenix perspective, hopefully if an expansion team ultimately came, they would bring back the Phoenix Coyotes name and logo/uniforms. Similar to how the new Cleveland Browns did.

[ASU Diablo]

Originally Posted by PHX31

If this is the case, I really hope the Utah group would change the name and logos. While there are Coyotes in Utah, the kachina coyote is one of the best and most unique logos and really wouldn't fit up there in northern Utah. I hope it's not a Utah Jazz situation, which obviously still makes zero sense.

And from the Phoenix perspective, hopefully if an expansion team ultimately came, they would bring back the Phoenix Coyotes name and logo/uniforms. Similar to how the new Cleveland Browns did.

Apologies if it wasn't clear in my original post. Meruelo would keep the Coyotes name/logs, just like the Cleveland Browns

[locolife]

Originally Posted by ASU Diablo

Damn man, you poked the bear and these out of state big mouths took the bait LOL jk

From what I have read and heard on AZ Sports and other media outlets, sounds like this is pretty much a done deal.

The most likely scenario is the team (Meruelo gets to keep the Coyotes name, logo, etc) gets sold to the NHL then to SLC Group and Meruelo still moves forward w/ the arena plan and if succeeds, Phoenix gets awarded an expansion team in 2027. However, this ownership group has been extremely tone-deaf through this entire ordeal and their social media presence has not helped. I don't think current Valley fans would support an expansion team being led by Alex Meruelo and I don't blame them.

lol I do live the crazy life after all.

It does seem like that is the most likely scenario now but it makes no sense. Move to another non-hockey arena in a smaller market and hope that billionaire owner can get it done. I get the league is in a tough spot as staying in Mullett much longer is not palatable.

I find it hard to believe that the existing NHL specific hockey arena in Phoenix cannot be utilized for a few years. That’s just plain stupid. But bad prior ownership, a host of mistakes, not working with the Godfather of AZ sports back on the day. It’s been one thing after another.

So if this is the end of the road, so be it. But hockey culture is alive and well in the valley, so I see the nhl making its way back sooner or later.

[ASU Diablo]

Looks like announcement will come on April 18th that they are being sold

https://x.com/gambo987/status/177883...-9xto6gli9jVMg

[CrestedSaguaro]

It's been announced that Bill Armstrong, the Coyotes GM, is flying into Edmonton tonight for a meeting with the team before the game. The meeting is apparently to discuss what’s going on and to take questions from the players.

I think that is pretty much the nail in the coffin right there boys

[PHX31]

Originally Posted by ASU Diablo

I don't think current Valley fans would support an expansion team being led by Alex Meruelo and I don't blame them.

I agree with this. Assuming the sale happens and we lose the Coyotes for now, if an expansion team is awarded in the future, I really hope it's with a different ownership group.

That would suck to be a player (let alone any Coyotes employee) and have to relocate to a different place (not via being traded). Plus there must be a ton of turn over and whatnot.

I'm feeling better resigning to the fact that this Coyotes saga may be over, we take a pause to regroup, and in a few years there's a much better ownership situation and arena situation and the Coyotes basically start back up again. I mean I haven't watched a game or even barely followed the team in several years (other than on Twitter/X), so it won't be much of a change anyway if they're gone for a while.

[CrestedSaguaro]

...and just like that.

https://kslsports.com/514977/arizona...location-utah/

[locolife]

Originally Posted by CrestedSaguaro

...and just like that.

https://kslsports.com/514977/arizona...location-utah/

Anyone else see the irony in moving away from PHX because of an unclear path to an NHL viable arena, only to move somewhere else that seems fairly volatile as well? I wish the players, employees, and families all the best. They deserve a good situation, I'm not yet convinced they're getting one.

From what I can gather, the Delta Center has 10,000 or so seats for hockey, terrible sight-lines, and much like in Phoenix today, there is no clear path to how a fancy new arena rendering/entertainment district will actually get paid for and built. From what I can gather, this does not look like a slam dunk for the Yotes either.

By comparison to our top sports owner, Ryan Smith is worth about $2.2 billion and Matty Ish is worth about $6 billion. Mr Smith might be spreading himself a little thin to own part of an MLS team, an NBA team, and an NHL team. But I'm merely at 25-years of volatile NHL franchise suffering so... I also question the market size, as we've heard in Phoenix it's hard to support 4 pro teams plus major college athletics. Meanwhile SLC is much smaller and will be asked to support the athletic programs of 2 major colleges (BYU and Utah) plus now 3 pro-sports teams. In the mad dash to chase the $500M of public funding that the State of Utah passed, it seems all analysis on viability has gone out of the window.

- The Utah legislature’s vote last month to approve $500 million in spending on a new or renovated arena if the NHL comes to town definitely got some attention.
- The money is supposed to come from a 0.5% citywide sales tax hike plus kickbacks of sales taxes from a “10-block revitalization area” around any arena.
- How much an NHL-ready arena would cost overall remains unknown, (estimates seem to be in the $1.5B range)
- How much Smith would pay to cover the remaining costs after plunking down maybe $1.3 billion for the Coyotes.
- Salt Lake City will be by far the smallest media market with both NBA and NHL teams competing for winter sports ticket sales (1,148,120 TV households, behind Miami’s 1,720,970).

https://www.fieldofschemes.com/

[azcats]

Originally Posted by CrestedSaguaro

...and just like that.

https://kslsports.com/514977/arizona...location-utah/

The potential fallout: The perception could be that Phoenix can't or won't support major league hockey. Not sure about Coyote games, but in L.A. when New York, Chicago, or Montreal would come to town to play the Kings - it always seemed that half of the Forum in Inglewood and then the Staples Center was filled with Rangers, Blackhawks, and Canadien fans. Over 20 years ago, I went to a PRE-SEASON Canadien hockey game in Montreal. It was packed - and with just Canadien fans. Talk about a deep-seated religion - the passion: fans were arguing with each other about players - what should be done, etc. A little side note: When "Oh Canada" was being played (I actually know the words) NO ONE stood or paid attention. I expressed my dismay to the guy sitting next to me. His response was like, "So!?! WE don't want to..." 200 years has not diminished the division between French Canadiens and English Canadiens. If the Quebec Fleur de Lis had been flying instead of the Canadian Maple Leaf - it may have been different.

Someone will sooner or later produce a study of the economic impact of the Coyotes leaving Phoenix. There will also surely be the intangibles - how the fan base will be impacted. When I was a young teenager, a family friend had four season tickets for the Phoenix Roadrunners and he would take me to many of the games. I became a Roadrunners fan and got hooked on hockey. The Seattle Totems and Portland Buckaroos!! My father used to laugh and call them "bush league." He had grown up watching Boston Bruins hockey. I didn't care. Watching Roadrunners hockey changed me. I ended following the UofA Ice Cats down in Tucson, and in my 30s - I would play ice hockey - pickup games and league games at night after work at ice rinks all over the L.A. basin, Pasadena, and the San Fernando Valley. The Roadrunners used to play in the Coliseum on McDowell. The rink was surrounded by cyclone fencing - or, whatever that was. No plexiglass. Times sure have changed in Phoenix. How come the owner of the Coyotes didn't temporarily play in the Veterans Memorial Coliseum? There are like 14,000 seats for hockey. He could have spent some $$ bringing it up to "code" for his team.

Good luck landing a future NHL franchise in Phoenix. The league would have to approve an expansion. Or, maybe another team could re-locate to Phoenix.
There will be competition: Houston doesn't have an NHL team - their CSA population is nearly 7.4 million and lots of oil/oil related money. Phoenix CSA has about 2 million people - less. This owner - or, soon to be owner - of the Coyotes can be quoted as to what he wants to do in the future ...or, will do in the future. Until it is signed, sealed, and delivered - who really knows. For all we know - when he lost out on building his complex in Tempe - he may have been thinking on bailing on the Valley. That north Phoenix land deal and plans for a complex located there - could have been part of the negotiating ploy for selling. I don't know - it doesn't matter. However, if an opportunity does come about for a future franchise in the Valley, the potential owner or group of owners will need to have really deep pockets, a strong desire, and ability to work with the community and sway NHL owners/ board for Phoenix. It seems like yesterday (1998) when Ovitz with Disney was attempting to get an L.A. NFL franchise and stadium built at the intersection of the 405 and 110 freeways. Houston was awarded the franchise instead.

[combusean]

I certainly didn't see this sale coming but that doesn't mean it will work out in the end.

What confuses the hell out of me is that Phoenix is far closer to putting shovels in the ground if this is strictly about the arena they're going to play in.