HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Atlantic Provinces


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #1141  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2024, 2:39 PM
MonctonRad's Avatar
MonctonRad MonctonRad is online now
Wildcats Rule!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Moncton NB
Posts: 40,777
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtsoc View Post
Not sure how much stock to put in the 338 predictions right now. They’ve got Hampton as a safe PC but I can say as being a resident I have not met or talked to someone who will be voting for Faytene.
I have strong Conservative tendencies, but, if I lived in Hampton, I would most certainly not be voting for Faytene. There is no place for her type of fundamentalist philosophy in our political process. I would be deathly concerned that if she got in, it would be the thin edge of the wedge leading to a complete makeover of the PC party.

It was bad enough with the CoR merger. We do not need more of this.
__________________
Go 'Cats Go
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1142  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2024, 3:05 PM
TitleRequired TitleRequired is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2024
Posts: 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
I have strong Conservative tendencies, but, if I lived in Hampton, I would most certainly not be voting for Faytene. There is no place for her type of fundamentalist philosophy in our political process. I would be deathly concerned that if she got in, it would be the thin edge of the wedge leading to a complete makeover of the PC party.

It was bad enough with the CoR merger. We do not need more of this.
This is the same rational used against the adf in Germany. Fortunately in both cases the legislature provides the dilution required that one extremist impact is well mitigated.

Wisdom of the herd, as selected by the electorate?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1143  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2024, 4:24 PM
sailor734 sailor734 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2023
Posts: 2,634
TJ reporting that Faytene Grasseschi cancelled a meet and greet event last week due to "safety and security concerns" but is refusing to comment on what the concerns were or if police were informed. (RCMP say they were not contacted and have no knowledge of the matter)

https://tj.news/new-brunswick/pc-faytene...concerns-that-caused-events-cancellation
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1144  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2024, 4:47 PM
CharlotteSJ CharlotteSJ is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2024
Posts: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailor734 View Post
TJ reporting that Faytene Grasseschi cancelled a meet and greet event last week due to "safety and security concerns" but is refusing to comment on what the concerns were or if police were informed. (RCMP say they were not contacted and have no knowledge of the matter)

https://tj.news/new-brunswick/pc-faytene...concerns-that-caused-events-cancellation
Three suspects were likely in the vicinity...Logic, reason and sanity.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1145  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2024, 4:57 PM
gtsoc gtsoc is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailor734 View Post
TJ reporting that Faytene Grasseschi cancelled a meet and greet event last week due to "safety and security concerns" but is refusing to comment on what the concerns were or if police were informed. (RCMP say they were not contacted and have no knowledge of the matter)

https://tj.news/new-brunswick/pc-faytene...concerns-that-caused-events-cancellation
Would have nothing to do with the fact only 4 people RSVP to go would it.

This would be a lot more believable if the PC candidate didn’t come with a history of over exaggerating (Covid cops coming to her door with bulletproof vests and automatic weapons)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1146  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2024, 5:04 PM
TitleRequired TitleRequired is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2024
Posts: 428
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1147  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2024, 5:14 PM
sailor734 sailor734 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2023
Posts: 2,634
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitleRequired View Post
Hmmm. Still no guarantee Singh will actually vote against the government on confidence motions. Most likely just political maneuvering trying to differentiate the NDP from the Liberals before Oct 2025.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1148  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2024, 9:53 PM
lirette lirette is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,044
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitleRequired View Post
This is the same rational used against the adf in Germany. Fortunately in both cases the legislature provides the dilution required that one extremist impact is well mitigated.

Wisdom of the herd, as selected by the electorate?
If Faytene gets in I would assume she ends up with a prominent cabinet position. Minister of education perhaps. She isn't simply "one extremist" , she is the handpicked candidate the premier selected. Her views are the same as Blaine's.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1149  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2024, 10:43 AM
TitleRequired TitleRequired is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2024
Posts: 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by lirette View Post
If Faytene gets in I would assume she ends up with a prominent cabinet position. Minister of education perhaps. She isn't simply "one extremist" , she is the handpicked candidate the premier selected. Her views are the same as Blaine's.
Do we need an ideological purity test to see who can run for office?

Why don't we leave it to the kind voters in Hampton?

Say what you will, she knows how to play the game, unlike Crossman's handpicked successor. Higgs didn't pick her, she picked herself through endless self promotion.

She:
1. Supported the premier, consistently,
2. Sold memberships should the premier had been exposed to a leadership review,
3. Mobilized a block of voters that show up at the polls 100% of the time.

Do you have issues with the player or the game?

That said, she wouldn't get into cabinet. Why? She marches to her own drum.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1150  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2024, 11:34 AM
TitleRequired TitleRequired is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2024
Posts: 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
I have strong Conservative tendencies, but, if I lived in Hampton, I would most certainly not be voting for Faytene. There is no place for her type of fundamentalist philosophy in our political process. I would be deathly concerned that if she got in, it would be the thin edge of the wedge leading to a complete makeover of the PC party.

It was bad enough with the CoR merger. We do not need more of this.
Another call for an ideological purity test for being an MLA?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1151  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2024, 11:37 AM
lirette lirette is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,044
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitleRequired View Post
Do we need an ideological purity test to see who can run for office?

Why don't we leave it to the kind voters in Hampton?

Say what you will, she knows how to play the game, unlike Crossman's handpicked successor. Higgs didn't pick her, she picked herself through endless self promotion.

She:
1. Supported the premier, consistently,
2. Sold memberships should the premier had been exposed to a leadership review,
3. Mobilized a block of voters that show up at the polls 100% of the time.

Do you have issues with the player or the game?

That said, she wouldn't get into cabinet. Why? She marches to her own drum.
Where in my post did I say she shouldn't be allowed to run? If she's followed all of the normal rules of being a candidate then of course she should be allowed to run and the voters can have their say.

Its really challenging to have an actual discussion with you on this forum. I mean this in the most respectful way but you have a pattern where you don't address the actual substance of anyone's posts and just strawman your own argument.

The point in my post was to respond to the idea you presented that the legislature is designed to remove power from "one extremist". For the past several years the party under Higgs has more resembled the views of Faytene than it has of Jeff Carr or Daniel Allain as evidenced by the amount of MLA's leaving and the new toxic comms strategy.

There is a dramatic effort to reshape the party. If I was a conservative I would be concerned about the comments of the departing MLA's about the state of the leadership right now. The premiers circle is shrinking, and with that those offering differing opinions aren't being listened to anymore and are leaving and being replaced by loyalists.

Higgs just spent Canada Day with Pastor Phil Hutchings. When the party leader is surrounding himself with people like that someone like Faytene isn't an outlier, she's what the party has become. If that's the party you want in government then that's your prerogative. I understand this forum skews conservative and I'm simply offering a different perspective which hopefully adds to the quality of discussion here.

I may end up wrong, but I still predict she ends up with a cabinet spot. Her loyalty will be rewarded.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1152  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2024, 11:38 AM
MonctonRad's Avatar
MonctonRad MonctonRad is online now
Wildcats Rule!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Moncton NB
Posts: 40,777
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitleRequired View Post
That said, she wouldn't get into cabinet. Why? She marches to her own drum.
Don't be so sure. Dominic Cardy marched to his own drummer too and became a cabinet minister.

If the pickings are slim (weak majority), and the pool of potential cabinet ministers is shallow, Higgs could very well give her a portfolio (or in this case portfoolio), especially if he feels indebted to her.
__________________
Go 'Cats Go
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1153  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2024, 12:04 PM
TitleRequired TitleRequired is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2024
Posts: 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitleRequired View Post
Still no mention of the SJ Harbour candidate.
Finally a release on facebook. Pictured with Oliver, Bockus and Savoie. Vetting completed

Uphill battle for him. Hickey as wide name recognition regardless of his positions on certain topics.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1154  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2024, 10:36 AM
TitleRequired TitleRequired is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2024
Posts: 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by lirette View Post
The point in my post was to respond to the idea you presented that the legislature is designed to remove power from "one extremist". For the past several years the party under Higgs has more resembled the views of Faytene than it has of Jeff Carr or Daniel Allain as evidenced by the amount of MLA's leaving and the new toxic comms strategy.
The people leaving are part of the wing that supported Mel Norton in the last leadership race. Including supporting cast of Kelly Van Buskirk, who got a 1M$ payout for Dornan. Part of Mel Norton's campaign team.

This is the same people that failed to organize a leadership review.

I would disagree with the statement that they left due to views, but simply that they left due to a failed putsch that shouldn't have gone public.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1155  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2024, 11:39 AM
MonctonRad's Avatar
MonctonRad MonctonRad is online now
Wildcats Rule!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Moncton NB
Posts: 40,777
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitleRequired View Post
I would disagree with the statement that they left due to views, but simply that they left due to a failed putsch that shouldn't have gone public.
The putsch occurred due to profound disagreements with the policy direction of the party. Higgs rightward shift was the reason.
__________________
Go 'Cats Go
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1156  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2024, 11:56 AM
lirette lirette is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,044
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitleRequired View Post
The people leaving are part of the wing that supported Mel Norton in the last leadership race. Including supporting cast of Kelly Van Buskirk, who got a 1M$ payout for Dornan. Part of Mel Norton's campaign team.

This is the same people that failed to organize a leadership review.

I would disagree with the statement that they left due to views, but simply that they left due to a failed putsch that shouldn't have gone public.
You can downplay it all you want, but the evidence is just not with you on this. It is unprecedented to see the amount of cabinet ministers resign. Giving up a ministers salary is no easy decision. Below is just a sliver of the evidence supporting my argument. I certainly respect anyone who puts their principles over their party, not easy in todays climate.

Trevor Holder:

"He also rapped the premier for what he called "his lack of empathy, as well as his inability to listen to valid concerns from all members of his caucus." "My political career has always been about trying to maintain balance, and if I daresay, Mr. Speaker, it's about trying to be progressive and conservative at the same time," Holder said during his speech Thursday.

Gary Crossman: “My personal and political beliefs no longer align in many ways with the direction of our party and government,” said Crossman in the post.

Jeff Carr on policy 713 (a policy put in by the higgs government BTW)

Infrastructure Minister Jeff Carr said the ability for students to confide in teachers or guidance counsellors knowing that their parents won’t be informed is an important part of the policy and shouldn’t be removed. If anything, the policy should be strengthened, he said.

“For me, it’s about the safety of the student,” he said. “It’s about having, not just the student, but all the people that are in those communities, have the comfort that they can go to somebody before they go to their parents because they don’t want to disappoint their parents, they do not want to feel unloved.

“It’s incumbent on us to continue to have those discussions, to continue to understand and educate ourselves, because many of us don’t understand what it’s like to be in a marginalized community.”

Carr said he’s been working to understand the perspective of people in the LGBTQ2 community and why the backlash against the review has been so strong.

“As soon as we start talking about effecting policy for inclusion, the people that have fought so long for inclusivity feel like they’re having something taken away,” he said.

“We have to be able to put ourselves in those shoes and understand how other people feel when we start developing these policies.”

Dorothy Shepard on policy 713

“Policy 713 is about giving educators a mechanism to promote an inclusive and respectful learning environment for children in our public schools. It’s about providing a safe place,” she said.

“It is a necessary policy that, I believe, needs to be strengthened and supported. Policies like this make the world a better place.”

Dorothy Shepard on the direction of the party:

"The way it's heading now, I think there is such a hyper-focused trend with far-right politics," she said. "That's my personal perspective."

Dorothy Shepard on the leadership of Higgs

""You do not trust the people who serve you," she wrote. "You do not value the insight that they bring to your table. You have built a system where no one takes things to the ministers anymore, they simply go to you — and you allow it."

Daniel Allain

"After that meeting, it was just time for me to take a break," he said. "I love playing a role, and some of those roles were already taken. … There wasn't a place for me."

Allain also made clear he's not comfortable with some of the social conservatives now involved with the party, including Hampton-Fundy-St. Martin's candidate Faytene Grasseschi and campaign manager Steve Outhouse.

He said they are part of the "extreme right" and their involvement goes against "the natural instincts" of the PC Party, which he said has always been closer to the centre of the political spectrum.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1157  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2024, 12:20 PM
TitleRequired TitleRequired is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2024
Posts: 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by lirette View Post
You can downplay it all you want, but the evidence is just not with you on this. It is unprecedented to see the amount of cabinet ministers resign. Giving up a ministers salary is no easy decision. Below is just a sliver of the evidence supporting my argument. I certainly respect anyone who puts their principles over their party, not easy in todays climate.

Trevor Holder:

"He also rapped the premier for what he called "his lack of empathy, as well as his inability to listen to valid concerns from all members of his caucus." "My political career has always been about trying to maintain balance, and if I daresay, Mr. Speaker, it's about trying to be progressive and conservative at the same time," Holder said during his speech Thursday.

Gary Crossman: “My personal and political beliefs no longer align in many ways with the direction of our party and government,” said Crossman in the post.

Jeff Carr on policy 713 (a policy put in by the higgs government BTW)

Infrastructure Minister Jeff Carr said the ability for students to confide in teachers or guidance counsellors knowing that their parents won’t be informed is an important part of the policy and shouldn’t be removed. If anything, the policy should be strengthened, he said.

“For me, it’s about the safety of the student,” he said. “It’s about having, not just the student, but all the people that are in those communities, have the comfort that they can go to somebody before they go to their parents because they don’t want to disappoint their parents, they do not want to feel unloved.

“It’s incumbent on us to continue to have those discussions, to continue to understand and educate ourselves, because many of us don’t understand what it’s like to be in a marginalized community.”

Carr said he’s been working to understand the perspective of people in the LGBTQ2 community and why the backlash against the review has been so strong.

“As soon as we start talking about effecting policy for inclusion, the people that have fought so long for inclusivity feel like they’re having something taken away,” he said.

“We have to be able to put ourselves in those shoes and understand how other people feel when we start developing these policies.”

Dorothy Shepard on policy 713

“Policy 713 is about giving educators a mechanism to promote an inclusive and respectful learning environment for children in our public schools. It’s about providing a safe place,” she said.

“It is a necessary policy that, I believe, needs to be strengthened and supported. Policies like this make the world a better place.”

Dorothy Shepard on the direction of the party:

"The way it's heading now, I think there is such a hyper-focused trend with far-right politics," she said. "That's my personal perspective."

Dorothy Shepard on the leadership of Higgs

""You do not trust the people who serve you," she wrote. "You do not value the insight that they bring to your table. You have built a system where no one takes things to the ministers anymore, they simply go to you — and you allow it."

Daniel Allain

"After that meeting, it was just time for me to take a break," he said. "I love playing a role, and some of those roles were already taken. … There wasn't a place for me."

Allain also made clear he's not comfortable with some of the social conservatives now involved with the party, including Hampton-Fundy-St. Martin's candidate Faytene Grasseschi and campaign manager Steve Outhouse.

He said they are part of the "extreme right" and their involvement goes against "the natural instincts" of the PC Party, which he said has always been closer to the centre of the political spectrum.
Lol.

Check out the endorsement list from the leadership race. 713 is simply window dressing.

Declared candidates
Brian Macdonald - MLA for Fredericton West-Hanwell
Candidacy declared: January 21, 2016.[6][7]
Endorsements: Peter MacKay, Noël Kinsella, Jody Carr, Jeff Carr, Jack Carr, Carl Urquhart
Blaine Higgs - MLA for Quispamsis (2010–present), Minister of Finance (2010–2014)
Candidacy declared: March 17, 2016.[8]
Endorsements: Bill Oliver, Sherry Wilson, Brian Keirstead, Rob Moore, Ernie Steeves
Monica Barley - Moncton lawyer
Candidacy declared: April 15, 2016.[9]
Endorsements: Claude Williams, Ted Flemming
Mike Allen - MP for Tobique—Mactaquac (2006–2015)
Candidacy declared: April 21, 2016.[10]
Endorsements: Kirk MacDonald, Richard Bragdon, Pam Lynch
Mel Norton - Mayor of Saint John, New Brunswick (2012–2016)
Candidacy declared: May 4, 2016.[11]
Endorsements: Gary Crossman, Dorothy Shephard, Trevor Holder, Glen Savoie, Ross Wetmore, Rodney Weston.
Jake Stewart, MLA for Southwest Miramichi-Bay du Vin (2010–present)
Candidacy declared: May 26, 2016.[12]
Endorsements: Jim Parrott
Jean Dubé, MLA for Campbellton (2001–2003), MP for Madawaska—Restigouche (1997–2000)
Candidacy declared: June 27, 2016.[13]
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1158  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2024, 1:30 PM
adamuptownsj adamuptownsj is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Saint John NB
Posts: 1,993
There is no duty for a centre-right party to include a 'long tail' to its left, especially of sour-grapes types. No centre-left party has a long tail to its right. Who would be the 'rightmost' Liberal in Parliament? Housefather? Lightbound? There's certainly none in the Legislative Assembly, AFAIK.

Every few years, a right-of-centre party in Canada shears off its left flank, people who weren't voting for it anyway freak out, and it generally improves its fortunes in the medium term.

Just in my lifetime, there's been FIVE instances of this happening.

1997: Saskatchewan Liberals and PCs merge (mostly) to form the Saskatchewan Party
2003: Alliance-PC merge to form the Conservative Party
2017: Alberta PCs and Wildrose merge to form the UCP
2022: NB PCs basically swallow the PA
2024: BC Conservatives force the BC Liberals/United out of existence

Is Faytene is a strong candidate? No, she puts what should be a rock solid seat at risk and doesn't seem to add any value. Is Dorothy Shepard some beloved figure of the Sensible Centre? No! She's a borderline-failed health minister who stood a decent chance of losing reelection in a moderately blue seat due to her own unpopularity.

Not going to wade into social issues here, but any voter chiefly motivated by 713-- in either direction-- was not exactly going to waffle between PCs and Liberals anyway. However, if national polls can be extrapolated to provincial issues, there's literally a dozen issues on the average voter's mind over this one.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1159  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2024, 2:04 PM
lirette lirette is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,044
Both of the posts above support my original claim that the party is moving more in the direction of Faytene Grassichi and less in the direction of Daniel Allain so I guess everyone is in agreeance?

The entire point of my post was to respond to the claim that Faytene was some outlier that would get diluted in the legislature. Due to various things you both mentioned in your posts, she will no longer be an outlier type but a strong loyal solider whos voice will be elevated with a Higgs victory. You can support that move or not support that move, but it is the reality.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1160  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2024, 2:14 PM
MonctonRad's Avatar
MonctonRad MonctonRad is online now
Wildcats Rule!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Moncton NB
Posts: 40,777
It causes me great discomfort that the party is ceasing to be the Progressive Conservative Party, and more of a "Reform" Conservative Party.

Will it affect my vote this time around? Probably not (unless I lived in Faytene's riding), but, my attention has been gained, and I will be observing the future direction of the party very carefully. If the rightward drift continues, then my long term support might become very shaky.
__________________
Go 'Cats Go
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Atlantic Provinces
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:38 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.