LeBreton Flats 2.0 (RendezVous LeBreton) | Cancelled

[rocketphish]

Major Senators sponsor signalled interest in partnering with team's LeBreton rival

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: February 1, 2016 | Last Updated: February 1, 2016 11:17 PM EST

A major sponsor of the Ottawa Senators signalled its interest in working with the DCDLS Group on a brewery museum at LeBreton Flats less than two months ago, according to a letter viewed by Postmedia.

The letter from Molson Coors to DCDLS partner Canderel dated Dec. 4, 2015 says the brewery is excited to partner with the group on the possible development of a Canadian brew museum at LeBreton Flats if DCDLS wins the competition.

Last week, Molson Coors distanced itself from the DCDLS bid after the Molson name appeared on the brew museum in renderings initially promoted by DCDLS.

The brewery’s name was then taken out of the drawings, except those already submitted to the National Capital Commission.

The appearance of the brewery in the DCDLS proposal was particularly curious because Molson Coors is one of the big sponsors of the Sens, which is behind the RendezVous Lebreton Group’s competing proposal for LeBreton Flats.

But DCDLS was under the impression the brewer was on board with exploring the concept of a 10,000-square-foot museum, celebrating Molson Coors’ history in Canada, if the group wins the development rights. Armed with the letter of support from the brewer, DCDLS included “Molson’s brewseum” on one of the sketches.

The thing is, Molson Coors has an important history with the Sens, too. They have been partners for more than 20 years. In 2011 the Sens and the brewer extended their sponsorship agreement through the 2015-2016 hockey season.

Asked on Sunday if Molson Coors ever signed an agreement with DCDLS, spokesperson Jennifer Kerr repeated an earlier statement that the company is “not directly engaged with this initiative at this time.” The brewer says its brand name is “sometimes used unofficially” to drum up excitement and it wasn’t involved with the DCDLS bid before the LeBreton Flats proposals were made public last week. DCDLS didn’t respond to requests for comment.

The city should buckle up for a week of intense sales jobs when it comes to the battle for LeBreton Flats.

DCDLS and RendezVous only have until midnight on Feb. 8 to speak publicly about their proposals. That’s also the deadline for people to submit feedback to the NCC through an online questionnaire. When the clock strikes twelve, a gag order is slapped on both bid teams as the NCC starts assessing the public feedback and deciding which proposal is best for the future of the prime piece of federal land.

Both bid teams are proposing an NHL arena and public library, but very different mixed-use communities.

The DCDLS proposal promotes some brand-name partnerships, such as Farm Boy, Ripley’s Aquarium, YMCA, and initially Molson, where RendezVous doesn’t put emphasis on potential tenants.

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http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...lebreton-rival

[mykl]

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

People complain that "Oh, other than the arena I would only visit the DEVCOR attractions once." Well guess what, that would be once more than if RV wins and builds their proposal as-is (again other than the arena since it's a part of both proposals). What are you going to go visit there, condos and restaurants?

Yes? That's often the reason I visit any neighbourhood other than my own. To visit a friend in their condo, to shop at a different store, to eat at a different restaurant. Sometimes I even walk by Parliament Hill for the fun of it. I might even go onto the grounds just because I can. Or maybe I'd walk to Chinatown and not even buy anything. Or maybe I'll buy lots of things. Maybe I'll see tourists who just want a good dumpling and a free photo beside the royal arch because they don't want to pay $19 per person to learn the history of Molson-Coors. Some things should be googled rather than building a million dollar pavillion for them.


To everyone complaining that the arena is just there for hockey, and there's no incentive for them to fill it with other programming. Are you not aware of the large number of concerts, Disney on ice, cirque du soleil, Algonquin graduation ceremonies, Max Keeping memorials, monster truck rallies and various other events the CTC hosts all year round? This isn't 8 games of football and an ACDC concert. This is not Lansdowne park.

Hell, even if they opened the building so people could run a tour de stade on their lunch breaks, it would be an instant daytime use bringing more people to the area, at the cost of turning on the lights and a employing a security guy.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Maybe we need some crazy building of outstanding architecture.

This is called the Bilbao effect. You can start learning about it here. http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...effect/302582/

[silvergate]

Originally Posted by mykl

WRONG. Where is Canada's biggest tourist destination? Wonderland. In the middle of fucking nowhere. (Well, now its in the middle of suburbia). People will gladly go wherever the fuck they have to in order to do the tourist things they want to do. Its about promotion and hype, not location. If tourists only cared about location, Wonderland would have been built under the CN Tower.

As for the concept of "you'd rather go to the city with 10 churches to see 10 churches" well, I'm a super cool young guy who travels and no, I'd go to a city with 10 churches and only visit the best one. Then I'd go to one museum. I'd have done my research beforehand, because technology is a thing. I'd see that in the vicinity I have the options of the national war museum, some car thing, and some beer thing. I'm going to pick the best one. I only care about beer enough to drink it (and even then, I'd prefer a whiskey museum) so I'm not going there, and cars are the devil for an urbanist visiting a walkable new development, so I'm going to choose the war museum that is steeped in important history for Canada and the world.

I'm with you on this, maybe if Ottawa started advertising more and better in the place with the most likely tourists, maybe then it would be able to attract more tourists. There is a lot to attract people here, we just need to showcase it right.

[Richard Eade]

Originally Posted by mykl

WRONG. Where is Canada's biggest tourist destination? Wonderland. In the middle of fucking nowhere. (Well, now its in the middle of suburbia). People will gladly go wherever the fuck they have to in order to do the tourist things they want to do. Its about promotion and hype, not location. If tourists only cared about location, Wonderland would have been built under the CN Tower.

As for the concept of "you'd rather go to the city with 10 churches to see 10 churches" well, I'm a super cool young guy who travels and no, I'd go to a city with 10 churches and only visit the best one. Then I'd go to one museum. I'd have done my research beforehand, because technology is a thing. I'd see that in the vicinity I have the options of the national war museum, some car thing, and some beer thing. I'm going to pick the best one. I only care about beer enough to drink it (and even then, I'd prefer a whiskey museum) so I'm not going there, and cars are the devil for an urbanist visiting a walkable new development, so I'm going to choose the war museum that is steeped in important history for Canada and the world.

Well, you might be “a super cool young guy” who prefers to only see, do, and have the best of everything, but it is certain that a lot of people will not share your opinions on what is best. For those people, I think that adding even more attraction options is a good thing. And, I would even suggest that they be built as an entertainment cluster at LeBreton. After all, your argument that attractions can be built anywhere would surely apply to the existing arena in Kanata. Since “People will gladly go wherever the [expletive deleted] they have to in order to do the tourist things they want to do”, then anyone who wants to go to an arena will gladly go to Kanata. That leaves the LeBreton area open for new attractions.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by mykl

WRONG. Where is Canada's biggest tourist destination? Wonderland. In the middle of fucking nowhere. (Well, now its in the middle of suburbia). People will gladly go wherever the fuck they have to in order to do the tourist things they want to do. Its about promotion and hype, not location. If tourists only cared about location, Wonderland would have been built under the CN Tower.

As for the concept of "you'd rather go to the city with 10 churches to see 10 churches" well, I'm a super cool young guy who travels and no, I'd go to a city with 10 churches and only visit the best one. Then I'd go to one museum. I'd have done my research beforehand, because technology is a thing. I'd see that in the vicinity I have the options of the national war museum, some car thing, and some beer thing. I'm going to pick the best one. I only care about beer enough to drink it (and even then, I'd prefer a whiskey museum) so I'm not going there, and cars are the devil for an urbanist visiting a walkable new development, so I'm going to choose the war museum that is steeped in important history for Canada and the world.

Well my dear mykl, isn't Wonderland really a collection of attractions on one site? Would you be happy if they put one ferris wheel in Kitchener, a roller coaster in Barrie and a splash ride in Oshawa? That is what we are talking about when we want to congregate attractions together on Lebreton Flats. And do you think Wonderland was located where it was for no reason? They chose that location because they could not possibly afford the location next to the CN Tower, but they could buy a large tract of land next to Highway 400, within easy driving distance of the right demographic of Toronto suburbia and right on the way to cottage country. The large tract of cheap land enabled them to build a large group of attractions on a single tract, which allowed it to become a destination in itself. Your conclusions fail to understand this. And if you think about it, why did Calypso get built where it did? Because it is on the main highway been Ottawa and Montreal, on land that was inexpensive allowing them assemble a variety of water attractions on a large site so it could become a destination.

And regarding your other comments, everybody has different tastes and let's be thankful for that and believe it or not, as we get older, our tastes do change. So what doesn't interest you now, you may change your mind about later. Also once you have seen that 'one' museum, you might actually want to see a second one on a subsequent visit. There is value in encouraging repeat visits. After all, I have been to San Francisco more than once and I saw different things each time. And you know, if you are traveling with a friend or a spouse or family, you might actually have to compromise on what you see. So that whisky museum might be out if your friend detests whisky but if the breweseum had an amazing brew pub?

[LeadingEdgeBoomer]

Melnyk on whether he would sell the Sens: "It's still 'no.'"

Posted on 2/2/2016 5:16:00 PM by Chris Holski and Kris Sims

play
mute
00:00

Eugene Melnyk has responded to reports that LeBreton Flats redevelopment competitor Devcore Canderel DLS would approach him about buying the Ottawa Senators.
The owner of the team appeared on CFRA's Ottawa NOW on Tuesday, telling Evan Solomon the answer is still "no."
"It's starting to get annoying," says Melnyk. "It's the first thing we talk about instead of our bid. Maybe that's part of (DCDLS') strategy."
"Let's forget about that. I have zero interest."
CTV reports DCDLS representatives would inquire about making a purchase if the NCC favours their bid.
Melnyk has his own iron in the fire with Rendez Vous LeBreton and noth bids include NHL-calibre arenas. Devcore Canderel DLS Group is partially based out of Montreal.
The Sens owner continues: "“If I had some development planned for Montreal and I said I wanted the Habs to play on my site, I can just imagine what words Geoff Molson (owner of the Montreal Canadiens) would use.”
In the meantime, Melnyk says if his group wins the LeBreton Flats bid, he still has "spectacular" plans for the Canadian Tire Centre site in Kanata.
"It's a big bit of land so we might build onto that arena."
A decision won't be made by the NCC until 2017.
Categories: Ottawa Region

[acottawa]

All of the Canada's Wonderland talk reminded me of what this reminds me of - Ontario Place. A bunch of disconnected attractions in pavilions, various mini museums, a few amusement rides, all with "modern architecture" and a park setting.

Ontario Place failed.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by acottawa

All of the Canada's Wonderland talk reminded me of what this reminds me of - Ontario Place. A bunch of disconnected attractions in pavilions, various mini museums, a few amusement rides, all with "modern architecture" and a park setting.

Ontario Place failed.

Sure, but did it have a BREWSEUM? That's why Ontario Place failed and Lebreton Reimagined will be a runaway success.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by acottawa

All of the Canada's Wonderland talk reminded me of what this reminds me of - Ontario Place. A bunch of disconnected attractions in pavilions, various mini museums, a few amusement rides, all with "modern architecture" and a park setting.

Ontario Place failed.

I think that is a better analogy than Olympic Park, particularly given the setting.

There are a few differences though. Ontario place was not downtown adjacent and was not on rapid transit. It was actually quite isolated, cut off from the city by the Exhibition grounds and Lakeshore, which played a role in its demise.

But otherwise a reasonable comparison. It had diverse, random attractions from the Cinesphere to the Log Ride to nightclubs to whatever the flavour of the month was in the various pavilions (something about lumber for a while, I think - maybe we can buy the used displays on the cheap for Lebreton). It never really became a significant tourist attraction outside of the CNE period, and only the Molson Ampitheatre proved to be sustainable long term.

[kevinbottawa]

Originally Posted by acottawa

All of the Canada's Wonderland talk reminded me of what this reminds me of - Ontario Place. A bunch of disconnected attractions in pavilions, various mini museums, a few amusement rides, all with "modern architecture" and a park setting.

Ontario Place failed.

Ontario Place was a success for decades before it failed. Probably more so due to a lack of reinvesting and adapting to changes in what visitors wanted. I imagine the buildings at Lebreton could be repurposed if Ottawans and tourists grow tired of the initial attractions.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

I sure wish that people would stop saying that RV plan includes a new Central Library. It does not! The RV group has suggested that a library could be built, by others, next to ‘its’ property. This would be like me trying to sell my house by saying that my neighbour might build a nice new garage (include a picture of the taj mahal) on his property next door. Only the DCDLS group has proposed building a library on the property.

J.OT.13, you say that you love to wander around vibrant areas; but what about not-so vibrant areas? One of the reasons that the Byward Market is a ‘happening place’ is because it attracts people – including many tourists. This mass of people then attracts others, like buskers, who, in turn, creates more draw to the area. Why is it that we don’t generally see buskers (and I’m using them as an indicator of fun-loving crowds) along Hazeldean Road in Kanata; or in front of the Science and Tech museum on St. Laurent? I expect that it is because there is no ‘buzz’ happening around the single attraction or in front of a specific restaurant or business.

Fact is, the City and Archives are doing their own process to design and build a library. They don't need the LeBreton groups to butt in. IMO, RV's move of proposing the library just beside their lands is genius cause' their is no guarantee (just like every other gimmick in Devecore's Re-Imagined) the City/Archives will choose Devecore's site or RV's proposed site.

Market doesn't have any big obvious public attractions other than the Mint and Gallery (both on the edge of the Market). People go because its an urban neighborhood full of bars, restaurants and retail, just like the RV proposal.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by kevinbottawa

Ontario Place was a success for decades before it failed.

I think that really depends on your definition of success. Also your definition of decades.

Ontario place was certainly successful when it first opened in the 70s, particularly the Cinesphere and the Children's Village play area, but other than the movie theatre, it was almost exclusively a summer destination. A big chunk of its attendance was tied to the CNE, which raises the question of how much of an attraction it was on its own.

I haven't looked up the exact years things happened, but it was clearly on the decline in the 80s, maybe 15 years after it opened, and it received substantial investment at that point, with limited success.

I don't doubt that the Devcore proposal would draw people in the summer, but if Ontario Place is a reasonable case study, it could definitely struggle in the winter.

[agl]

Just spent some time at the Devcore display set up at Constitution Square, and have to say I drank a bit of the Lebreton Re-Imagined Kool-Aid. They'll be there until the 8th, so drop by if you didn't get a chance to view the presentations at the War Museum. Many on hand to answer questions, including the project manager I spoke with.

Anyone know if and where the Rendez-Vous group has displays up?

[citydwlr]

Speaking of the DCDLS group, Reevely (from the Citizen) tweeted out an image of some statements by some of their partners (Ripleys, Farm Boy, etc...) praising the development/DCDLS and saying how thrilled they are to be a part of it (I guess as a means of legitimizing their involvement in the project and to gain more support):

[BlueJay]

Originally Posted by agl

Anyone know if and where the Rendez-Vous group has displays up?

Rendez-Vous Group has their display up at the Canadian Tire Centre.

[Buggys]

Originally Posted by acottawa

All of the Canada's Wonderland talk reminded me of what this reminds me of - Ontario Place. A bunch of disconnected attractions in pavilions, various mini museums, a few amusement rides, all with "modern architecture" and a park setting.

Ontario Place failed.

It was great while it lasted. Lots of people were sad to see it go.

[rocketphish]

Competing teams giving public second chance to view LeBreton Flats displays

Don Butler, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: February 3, 2016 | Last Updated: February 3, 2016 5:47 PM EST

The open house at the Canadian War Museum ended nearly a week ago, but the public will get an unexpected second chance to view displays of the two competing development plans for LeBreton Flats.

The Devcore Canderel DLS Group was first out of the gate, taking to Twitter Wednesday to announce the news. “Missed the NCC #LeBreton consultation last week? Come see our display and ask your questions.”

Models and designs of its LeBreton Re-Imagined will be on display at 340 Albert St., part of the Constitution Square office complex, from 8 a.m. to 6 p.m. until Feb. 8, when online public consultations on the development of LeBreton Flats will end.

Meanwhile, the RendezVous LeBreton team – headed by Senators Sports & Entertainment and Trinity Developments – was scrambling Wednesday to reassemble its IllumiNation LeBreton display at the Canadian Tire Centre.

Details of when the public will be able to view them were still being worked out. Public access is complicated by the fact that the Senators play games at the CTC Thursday and Saturday.

Hundreds of people showed up at the Canadian War Museum last week to view models and sketches of the plans by the two teams vying for the right to develop 21.6 hectares of vacant land on LeBreton Flats.

The National Capital Commission initially informed both teams that they wouldn’t be allowed to speak publicly about their proposals after the two-day open house ended on Jan. 27. As a result, neither had made plans to relocate their displays.

The NCC changed its mind and allowed the two groups to present their proposals until Feb. 8, forcing both to make ad hoc arrangements on short notice.

Public interest in the LeBreton redevelopment proposals has been high. As of Tuesday, the NCC had received almost 4,000 completed questionnaires offering feedback on the two plans.

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http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...flats-displays

[rocketphish]

LeBreton arena architects extend visions beyond hockey

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: February 3, 2016 | Last Updated: February 3, 2016 5:39 PM EST

A modern entertainment centre on LeBreton Flats needs to be more than just a hockey rink for the Ottawa Senators, according to the two competing arena architects.

Matt Rossetti, the arena designer for the RendezVous LeBreton Group bid, said his scheme has arts spaces, a community theatre and commercial areas attached to the concourse. The building should be alive even when there isn’t a hockey game or concert, he said.

“If we could put an elementary school inside of it, we would do that,” Rossetti said.

Ritchard Brisbin, the arena architect for the Devcore Candarel DLS Group proposal, said people go to arenas to not only watch the hockey game, but to socialize with friends and other fans.

“These aren’t your grandfather’s facilities. This isn’t the Original Six. They are quite a different animal,” Brisbin said.

Ottawa-based Brisbin and his firm BBB Architects, along with its subsidiary Stadium Consultants International, was involved in designs of the Air Canada Centre in Toronto, Rogers Arena in Vancouver and other international sports centres.

Rossetti, whose firm is based in Detroit, has worked on arenas in Boston, Los Angeles and Ottawa, plus other sports facilities around the globe. Rossetti was the architect of the Canadian Tire Centre.

Designing an arena in 2016 is nothing like it was when Rossetti was drawing up plans for the original Palladium, the first name of the Sens’ arena in Kanata.

“Frankly, they couldn’t be more different,” Rossetti said.

“These things had just come out of the realm of being, literally, public infrastructure projects, almost as utilities. (Arenas) were seen as something for the public, not really to make money off of. They stuffed them out in parking lots where they could control everything. They had almost no hospitality side to them. Now we look at them as catalysts for bigger developments. Our scheme here is a quintessential, new-age event centre project.”

The RendezVous and DCDLS arena designs share similar elements. Both pay homage to Ottawa’s lumbering past and include a healthy amount of wood. Both seating bowls could be adjusted to suit NHL hockey or an intimate concert. The views from inside both buildings, looking out to the Ottawa River and Parliament Hill, would be spectacular, based on the descriptions provided by Rossetti and Brisbin.

The architects are also mindful of the local business demographics. Being of a government region, Ottawa-Gatineau isn’t full of deep-pocketed corporations willing to shell out big money for corporate suites. While there will be premium seating zones, the arena needs to suit the ordinary fan.

Where the proposals diverge is location. RendezVous wants the building between Bayview and Pimisi LRT stations, while DCDLS has virtually plugged the arena into Bayvew station.

With the RendezVous proposal, Rossetti noted how easy it would be to walk to an arena from one of the two nearby LRT stops.

Brisbin promoted the proposed DCDLS arena as the ultimate easy-to-access facility. It’s connected to the east-west LRT and north-south Trillium Line O-Train.

Arenas are “imposing facilities,” Brisbin explained, so DCDLS pushed the building into the ground to provide the transit connections and give visitors direct access to the concourse.

Each architect has a cherry-on-top element to his design.

Rossetti talked up the infusion of walkways and streetscapes with a LeBreton Square event space, all leading up to the front of the building.

“That to me is the real magic here,” Rossetti said.

For Brisbin and DCDLS, it’s an O-shaped skylight through which LED lights would shine, creating something like a bat signal.

“We like the whimsical notion that when you seen an O in the sky, it’s game night,” Brisbin said.

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http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...-beyond-hockey

[mykl]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Well my dear mykl, isn't Wonderland really a collection of attractions on one site? Would you be happy if they put one ferris wheel in Kitchener, a roller coaster in Barrie and a splash ride in Oshawa? That is what we are talking about when we want to congregate attractions together on Lebreton Flats.

And if you think about it, why did Calypso get built where it did? Because it is on the main highway been Ottawa and Montreal, on land that was inexpensive allowing them assemble a variety of water attractions on a large site so it could become a destination.

Also once you have seen that 'one' museum, you might actually want to see a second one on a subsequent visit. There is value in encouraging repeat visits.

Well you see, Wonderland is a single destination. You pay one time. At Fantasyland Lebreton, you will pay steeply if you want to do multiple things in one day. You've also just made my case that Wonderland and Calypso are so successful because they are in the middle of nowhere and don't need to be centrally located to attract people, and therefore it is not necessary to cram our downtown full of tourist attractions.

Here's an idea for all of you... the CTC can be home to like 5 of Devcore's ideas, and build a few more ideas in the surrounding parking lots. Then everyone wins! Because like you've all said, the number one concern is that everything is located close to each other, not WHERE they are located.

And I'm glad you mentioned getting to see more than one museum. For everyone who feels that Ottawa is severely lacking in fine museums, and needs like 5 more, I give you this list to satisfy everyone other than the people who want to go to the National Museums of Drinking and Driving, located near the cute little elementary school.

Canadian Museum of Nature
Canadian Museum of History
Canadian War Museum
Canadian Agriculture and Food Museum
Canada Science and Technology Museum
Canada Aviation and Space Museum
Bank of Canada Currency Museum
Library and Archives Canada
National Gallery of Canada (and many other local galleries including those of the City of Ottawa)
Billings Estate Museum
Laurier House
Kingsmere
Royal Canadian Mint
Dominon Arboretum
Bytown Museum
Diefenbunker
A slew of local museums (Nepean, Goulbourn, Cumberland, Osgood, Vanier Museopark, Swords and Ploughshares Museum)
Cameron Highlanders of Ottawa Museum
Ottawa Sports Hall of Fame
Scouts Canada National Museum

And if you want to see another ecosystem in Ottawa, forget the Canadensis Walk. Check out the stunning Mer Bleue bog. Ottawa is literally overflowing with tourism options.

[Admiral Nelson]

Good lord, Mykl, you're wielding your arguments throughout this thread like a bludgeon. Let us debate this a little more dispassionately and with less ridicule.

You disparage Devcore's proposed attractions. Sell us on the Rendezvous alternative. It seems their vision is an environment that skews heavily to condos — a slow-growth recipe that will take decades to finish. Yes, it also includes a mix of retailers, but is it likelier to resemble Wellington West's or Lansdowne's? How attractive a draw is this likely to be for Ottawa residents – let alone tourists – considering not only your own peculiar tastes?

Ultimately, is Rendezvous proposing something that is truly more ambitious and more nationally significant than Devcore? I would say no. And I suspect the NCC might agree.