Winnipeg Jets

[TAZ4ate0]

Originally Posted by Svenn

Our franchise was taken away from us...from a place where hockey matters...and it was put in the desert where it has been failing miserably since...and you wonder why we're p*ssed off?

That's like taking the Dallas Cowboys and shipping them off to ummm...Nairobi, Kenya. I know...that's extreme but my point is that hockey matters here and it always has. Has it ever mattered in Pheonix? It's been almost 15 years and the team is still in a terrible financial situation. What does that mean exactly? The experiment didn't work! If it hasn't worked for 15 years...it will never work.

I am a fan, there are many fans here. Yes, hockey here will work. The sad part is, the team was horribly mismanaged and owned from early on. I feel your pain, but sorry...to tell me I shouldn't have a hockey team here, to root for, just because you feel you got jipped is wrong.

[trueviking]

you shouldnt have a hockey team because there are not enough others like you who care about hockey.....we learned the hard way, it isnt about how much you like your team, its about how profitable they are and phoenix's level of support caused the team to lose $30 million a season and eventually go into bankruptcy....this didnt happen because the money isnt in phoenix, one of the largest markets in the NHL, but because the interest is not.....therefore your city does not deserve a team.

having the lowest ticket revenues in the league, year after year doesnt really support your theory that there are many fans there....

http://www.rodneyfort.com/PHSportsEc...com5-30-08.pdf

[JayM]

Just to add to that..

Canadian NHL teams mean money
Canada's six clubs are responsible for bringing in almost one-third of NHL's entire ticket revenue

Published On Fri May 30 2008

source

[h0twired]

Originally Posted by TAZ4ate0

heh...I doubt it..


(I and others here in Phoenix have delt with so many rude Canadians on Phoenix Coyotes sports boards across the internet...it has changed my view of Canadians forever...you don't deserve them)

Did you and the other 20 people who paid for Coyote seasons tickets this year decide that on your own?

[h0twired]

Originally Posted by TAZ4ate0

OK....I give you that. However, my attitude has been no different than what I, and Coyotes fans, have been suffering from folks in Canada, who are on Phoenix Coyotes fan boards, for the past year or so. I understand that really not much, or none of it, has come from SSP. But it's fun to ruffle the feathers, and rattle the cage.

You might do yourself a favor and actually explain why you believe the Coyotes will stay in Glendale instead of just coming here and making blanket unsubstantiated statements about the status of the team.

What we know is that the team is hemorrhaging money due to a small fan base and low revenue. We also know that the Ice Edge group has no money to buy the team and no other ownership groups have stepped up to buy the team and keep it in Phoenix.

So what makes you so certain that the team will remain?

[freeweed]

I thought that MTS Centre most definitely could NOT add another 2000 seats - TV, aren't you a bit in the know here (or am I thinking of another SSPer)?

To give one tiny piece of defense to our Arizonan friend: while there may not be a lot of fans in Phoenix, after attending a game there, I do have to say that what few fans they have are pretty loyal. They actually understand the game and know when and how to cheer - unlike say Tampa or Nashville, where all they've done is tried to pretend that hockey is football on ice.

Seriously, Nashville has to be the worst place to watch a game. No one understands what's happening, they boo at completely inappropriate times, and they never really cheer for their team. All they do is boo the opponent and the refs. "Tuuuuuurco... tuuuuurco...... YOU SUCK!!!!".

[drew]

^ I am certainly not in the "know" but from what I understand the improvements to the MTS Centre that may or may not be on the drawing board when an NHL team returns to WInnipeg are:

to add another level of corporate boxes above where the current upper deck is. I believe that these will be supported off of the existing roof structure.

I don't think there is any conceivable way to add an additional 2000 seats to the arena. There are a few areas to fill in that might squeeze in about 500 or so, but structurally speaking - lifting a roof, or building out cantilevers to accommodate more nose bleeds will probably never be cost effective.

[freeweed]

I'm envisioning the balconies added to the old barn. Now THOSE were an engineering feat!

[flatlander]

Originally Posted by freeweed

To give one tiny piece of defense to our Arizonan friend: while there may not be a lot of fans in Phoenix, after attending a game there, I do have to say that what few fans they have are pretty loyal. They actually understand the game and know when and how to cheer - unlike say Tampa or Nashville, where all they've done is tried to pretend that hockey is football on ice.

Are you sure those weren't just snowbirds? Last time i was there (2 or 3 years ago) all the fans in my area were Canadians.

[rrskylar]

A good indicator of "how loved" the Coyotes are to Phoenix will be this years playoff run, with most of the snowbirds already back in the northern US states and Canada will Phoenix hockey fans bother to show up to playoff games.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by flatlander

Are you sure those weren't just snowbirds? Last time i was there (2 or 3 years ago) all the fans in my area were Canadians.

Oh, there certainly were plenty of those. But there's a hardcore Phoenix-resident contingent (plenty of ex-pats, to be sure). I talked to a lot of people in the stands and I know a few season ticket holders down there.

There may only be a few thousand, but I have at least some respect for the true Coyotes fans. And I almost feel bad for them when they lose their team - but as an ex-pegger, only a tiny bit.

Phoenix at least felt like a hockey game. Nashville felt like a joke.

[TAZ4ate0]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

A good indicator of "how loved" the Coyotes are to Phoenix will be this years playoff run, with most of the snowbirds already back in the northern US states and Canada will Phoenix hockey fans bother to show up to playoff games.

The answer is yes.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

A good indicator of "how loved" the Coyotes are to Phoenix will be this years playoff run, with most of the snowbirds already back in the northern US states and Canada will Phoenix hockey fans bother to show up to playoff games.

Yeah, I'll be checking the attendance #s on nhl.com after each game, personally. I bet they don't even sell out the 1st round.

Our plans right now are that if they make it to the 3rd round, we're going to try to score tickets. But only if we can get them through Ticketmaster. If they're available, might be a good way to see some real cheap deep round playoff action. You sure can't find tickets like that up here, without paying scalper prices.

[rrskylar]

^ Yeah I'll bet it would real hard to find playoff tickets for the Oilers, maybe in 2011!

[Only The Lonely..]

Originally Posted by TAZ4ate0

The Coyotes are not relocating. Period.

WRONG.

[The Jabroni]

Originally Posted by Only The Lonely..

WRONG.

I'd be saying the same thing, if I were in his shoes.

[Distill3d]

Originally Posted by TAZ4ate0

I am a fan, there are many fans here. Yes, hockey here will work. The sad part is, the team was horribly mismanaged and owned from early on. I feel your pain, but sorry...to tell me I shouldn't have a hockey team here, to root for, just because you feel you got jipped is wrong.

Sorry to say this, but uh, if hockey works in Phoenix, how come the Coyotes are losing money? Mismanagement, years of a bad product, sure, okay. I'll give you that as part of the reason. I'll even agree that they got screwed in an arena deal that saw them leave Phoenix proper for Glendale (a good arena...better than some I've been in). What I can't give you is that your team lost out on star quality players, be they in their prime or not, and they still lost money.

I've been to games at both arena's in Phoenix, and neither one of them was a sell out. Even when I saw the Toronto Maple Leafs play there, and (as much as I hate admitting this) they sell out everywhere! So, seriously, the contingency of all 1200 hardcore hockey fans in Phoenix isn't enough to keep the team there.

I ask you this, when was the last time they sold out the Jobing.com Arena? The team is in second place in the Western Conference right now and are still playing to crowds of 10,000 in a 20,000 seat arena. Cut your losses and admit you're team is packing its bags already.

I would venture enough to say that even IF the Coyotes made it to the Stanley Cup finals, they would be playing to a half empty arena...or at least in the seats that were filled, you'd see a lot of out of town jersey's...

[1ajs]

though if the team won it might spure life into a otherwise dead team

[ILYR]

Phoenix will make the playoffs for the first time in 7 years. The team has been playing the best in franchise history (as Phoenix).

If the team does not sellout every game during their playoff run they will not survive in Phoenix. Winning years have to offset losing seasons financially. Even with everything that has gone on in Phoenix this year off the ice, there is no reason a team challenging for 1st in the West should not be selling out every game (with full priced tickets at that). Edmonton is having their worst season in franchise history in the NHL, yet they still sell out every game. I don't doubt the faith of the Phoenix fan base, but a few thousand fans will not sustain a team over the long run.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by ILYR

Phoenix will make the playoffs for the first time in 7 years. The team has been playing the best in franchise history (as Phoenix).

Actually they're playing the best in franchise history, PERIOD. This year's team has already won more games than the Jets ever did, and they still have ~10 games to go. They'll shatter the previous record. And they're still barely selling tickets.

Which points out how completely bullshit the argument about "management problems" or "on-ice product not good" is as an excuse for low ticket sales. Winnipeg NEVER averaged this few fans and the Jets were perpetually mis-managed (hellooooo, 600 sub-par Russian draft picks), and horrible on the ice. They missed the playoffs plenty of times and only ever won a playoff series twice in 17 years in the NHL.

I don't recall Bettman (or anyone else) using the Jets' poor management or bad on-ice performance to justify them losing money, and a reason why they should have been kept in Winnipeg, so why should that excuse Phoenix?

Which again is no excuse this season, as the team has a good chance of winning their conference in the regular season. The Jets never even won their DIVISION (a couple of 2nd place results).