Roads/Bridges projects/issues

[Marshsparrow]

I'm all for NOT making Ottawa more commuter friendly for Gatineau residents!

[MoreTrains]

Originally Posted by marshsparrow

i'm all for not making ottawa more commuter friendly for gatineau residents!

+1

[JM1]

I think proper transit could solve a lot of problems.

Ottawa and Gatineau transit are just not connected and that means people take the car to avoid long commutes.

Start by having an Ottawa-Gatineau rail connection (Either POW or tunnel under Parliament).

Other (cheaper) projects that could be done to connect transit on the Quebec side with the LRT and alleviate bridge traffic:

An urban gondola from Montcalm to Pimisi with stops at Portage and the new Zibi site.

An urban gondola from Montee Paiement Rapidbus across Kettle Island, over the CFB Rockcliffe Site, and the NRC Campus and down Blair to Blair Station (connecting Rapidbus to LRT and East End Government Offices -- NRC, CSIS, CSE, Telesat, as well as to CFB development and LRT).

An urban gondola from Aylmer across Brittania to the LRT at Richmond Road.

The urban gondolas would be far cheaper than rail bridges/tunnels across the Ottawa river and would allow from connections directly to land-based transit on both sides.

With new gondolas, you could cover the short stretches of a few kms in minutes (they could travel at 30 km/h) and capacities of 4000-5000 pph could be achieved.

Originally Posted by silvergate

I'm curious, has anyone ever done/proposed a survey on the final destination of gatineau commuters and which bridge they take? I think it would be worthwhile to study the daily dispersal of traffic from each bridge. Might help both cities build a better mass transit plan in the future.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Marshsparrow

I'm all for NOT making Ottawa more commuter friendly for Gatineau residents!

Less friendly for car commuters, sure, but commuters generally? What would be the advantage to artifically cutting the metropolitan area into two sides? That hurts us economically and culturally.

Frankly the political divides are damaging enough. The last thing we need are to create physical barriers.

[Marshsparrow]

I don't want new physical barriers and I would be pro LRT loop - but expanding Ottawa roads, adjusting traffic signals, widening bridges, etc. to accomodate/encourage Gatineau commuters to Ottawa is not mutually beneficial and takes much needed $ to other areas of Ottawa that should have money invested.

[lrt's friend]

A city that is choking on traffic is an unhealthy one. If we want to maintain a good quality of life, all parts of the city (on both sides of the river) need to be easily accessible. If we do not wish to improve roads, then we better invest in public transit. We need to resolve the artificial transit divide that we have created. We also need to get past which side of the river is benefiting. That just prevents transportation progress.

[Marshsparrow]

I'm all for that and more - however the Champlain Bridge widening is an example of where the commute pattern is expanded to benefit QC and that promotes increased congestion on the ON side and increased house construction on the QC side which then further fills the expanded infrastructure beyond capacity - I don't see it going the reverse and what the benefits to ON are. Aside from a truck bridge / tunnel new bridges to me are a no go and the neighbourhoods on the ON side the protest them do so for very good reason! Again - only my opinion and uneducated perspective - I am by no means an expert!

[Radster]

I remember first time I saw this was in Japan, now here's an article about a scramble crosswalk in LA. Makes lots of sense for high pedestrian and car traffic intersections in downtowns. Makes me wonder if there is an intersection in Ottawa that would be suited for a scramble intersection. Thoughts?

http://gizmodo.com/a-simple-change-t...rse-1779684171

[Norman Bates]

Sussex / colonel by / Rideau.

Rideau / King Edward.

[daud]

Originally Posted by Marshsparrow

I'm all for that and more - however the Champlain Bridge widening is an example of where the commute pattern is expanded to benefit QC and that promotes increased congestion on the ON side and increased house construction on the QC side which then further fills the expanded infrastructure beyond capacity - I don't see it going the reverse and what the benefits to ON are. Aside from a truck bridge / tunnel new bridges to me are a no go and the neighbourhoods on the ON side the protest them do so for very good reason! Again - only my opinion and uneducated perspective - I am by no means an expert!

maybe we could build a wall then. That seems to be the popular solution these days. Funny how it can seem so stupid when we hear Trump talk about it but then we can be so cognizant of the underlying forces that cause such ridiculous solutions at our own local level.

In all seriousness though, I think you hit on the reasoning behind a lack of action on bridges and interprovincial transit. Its about tax dollars. Ontario wants to keep as much in Ontario as it can. It thinks (possibly correctly) that the less we connect, the more will stay in Ontario be it residential or commercial. Building bridges means lost property taxes on a home, lost tax revenue on a business.

But the reality is, if we have a disjointed and unconnected urban area, we lose. The more we bridge and join our communities, the more we integrate our transportation into a cohesive plan, the more attractive our region as a whole becomes. Go for a bigger pie, don't fight over the existing pie.

All we've done, is pass the buck and not make decisions on interprovincial transit. I don't think anyone has benefited from that lack of action.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by daud

maybe we could build a wall then. That seems to be the popular solution these days. Funny how it can seem so stupid when we hear Trump talk about it but then we can be so cognizant of the underlying forces that cause such ridiculous solutions at our own local level.

In all seriousness though, I think you hit on the reasoning behind a lack of action on bridges and interprovincial transit. Its about tax dollars. Ontario wants to keep as much in Ontario as it can. It thinks (possibly correctly) that the less we connect, the more will stay in Ontario be it residential or commercial. Building bridges means lost property taxes on a home, lost tax revenue on a business.

But the reality is, if we have a disjointed and unconnected urban area, we lose. The more we bridge and join our communities, the more we integrate our transportation into a cohesive plan, the more attractive our region as a whole becomes. Go for a bigger pie, don't fight over the existing pie.

All we've done, is pass the buck and not make decisions on interprovincial transit. I don't think anyone has benefited from that lack of action.

We need to start acting as one city as far as attracting business and tourists and in the long run people. Looking at tourism sites that end at the provincial boundary is counterproductive. I was actually amused when I saw a Quebec tourist site including the War Museum for Gatineau but not Parliament Hill.

These petty divisions are not serving us as taxpayers well.

But really, the argument concerning putting up transportation barriers so that tax money does not leak from Ontario to Quebec is just plain stupid.

There is a real barrier and that relates to language politics. Transportation issues are trivial compared to this. Not too many Anglophone Ottawa families will want to move to Quebec with the tangle of school language regulations, which may limit education choices for some families.

[hwy418]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

We need to start acting as one city as far as attracting business and tourists and in the long run people. Looking at tourism sites that end at the provincial boundary is counterproductive. I was actually amused when I saw a Quebec tourist site including the War Museum for Gatineau but not Parliament Hill.

These petty divisions are not serving us as taxpayers well.

But really, the argument concerning putting up transportation barriers so that tax money does not leak from Ontario to Quebec is just plain stupid.

There is a real barrier and that relates to language politics. Transportation issues are trivial compared to this. Not too many Anglophone Ottawa families will want to move to Quebec with the tangle of school language regulations, which may limit education choices for some families.

I think the source of the issue in Ottawa-Gatineau is that Toronto and Quebec City have way too much control on what happens here. In my opinion, we will continue to suffer until the NCR is made into some sort of special territory or district.

[gjhall]

Originally Posted by Norman Bates

Sussex / colonel by / Rideau.

Rideau / King Edward.

Absolutely. Maybe Somerset/Bank as runner up.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

There is a real barrier and that relates to language politics. Transportation issues are trivial compared to this. Not too many Anglophone Ottawa families will want to move to Quebec with the tangle of school language regulations, which may limit education choices for some families.

You're totally correct in that a big part of it is a language issue, but I don't think that English school access would be a problem for most Ottawa families. If your kid is already enrolled in an English school in Ottawa, they'll be able to go to English school in Gatineau. And if you're Canadian and went to English school in Canada, your kids can start school from scratch in English in Quebec if you want.

The main barrier (and it is language-related) to moving to Gatineau and to Quebec in general is that it doesn't feel like "home" to people from Barrhaven, Lower Sackville, Sherwood Park, Stoney Creek, etc.

[Norman Bates]

Originally Posted by Acajack

You're totally correct in that a big part of it is a language issue, but I don't think that English school access would be a problem for most Ottawa families. If your kid is already enrolled in an English school in Ottawa, they'll be able to go to English school in Gatineau. And if you're Canadian and went to English school in Canada, your kids can start school from scratch in English in Quebec if you want.

The main barrier (and it is language-related) to moving to Gatineau and to Quebec in general is that it doesn't feel like "home" to people from Barrhaven, Lower Sackville, Sherwood Park, Stoney Creek, etc.

It's funny, but I'm originally from Winnipeg, and except for language I get a very "home" feeling from hull/Gatineau.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Norman Bates

It's funny, but I'm originally from Winnipeg, and except for language I get a very "home" feeling from hull/Gatineau.

I totally get how that could be the case for some people, although obviously it's not the way the majority of people feel.

[rocketphish]

.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Radster

I remember first time I saw this was in Japan, now here's an article about a scramble crosswalk in LA. Makes lots of sense for high pedestrian and car traffic intersections in downtowns. Makes me wonder if there is an intersection in Ottawa that would be suited for a scramble intersection. Thoughts?

http://gizmodo.com/a-simple-change-t...rse-1779684171

You don't have to go as far as Japan for an example of these sorts of crosswalks.

Toronto has pedestrian scrambles at Yonge & Dundas and at Yonge & Bloor, and Kingston has one at University & Union (in the middle of Queen's campus).

[Radster]

cool, I did not know that!

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Toronto has pedestrian scrambles at Yonge & Dundas and at Yonge & Bloor, and Kingston has one at University & Union (in the middle of Queen's campus).

Montreal also has a hybrid pedestrian scramble at the intersection of Rue McGill and Rue Saint-Jacques. At one point in the cycle it is red in all directions for cars and green in all directions for pedestrians. There is no paint indicating you can cross diagonally, but everyone does.