Tempe Development Thread

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by MiEncanto

Tempe's transformation is astounding.

It somehow has become far more dense, urban, and modern while also losing the vibe that made it cool. Mill Ave is dead. The music scene is dead (though to be fair that's been gone for like 20 years). The restaurant and bar industry is mostly dead or boring, despite the rest of metro Phoenix doing really well. Some of the dives are going away. It's sad.

I doubt Mill is dead. I don't go there anymore but im sure the many thousands of ASU students do just like I used to.

Yes many of the old haunts are gone but that's just what happens with times inexorable march.

When I see how much is on Mill and the whole area between College and Farmer and around Rural/university and Apache/rural in some ways im Jealous, Tempe was so much smaller just 15 years ago.

[xymox]

Originally Posted by Obadno

I doubt Mill is dead. I don't go there anymore but im sure the many thousands of ASU students do just like I used to.

Yes many of the old haunts are gone but that's just what happens with times inexorable march.

When I see how much is on Mill and the whole area between College and Farmer and around Rural/university and Apache/rural in some ways im Jealous, Tempe was so much smaller just 15 years ago.

I used to think Mill Ave was dead - then I caught a show @Darkstar. Holy crap was Mill alive with tons and tons of people. There are at least 3-4 different EDM clubs with international DJs there regularly on top of all the college bars and other assorted places. When everything ended at 2am everyone poured out onto the streets and I was amazed at how many people were there. So it's not dead - it's just changed.

[ASU Diablo]

Originally Posted by xymox

So it's not dead - it's just changed.

100% whole heartedly agree.

There were almost 60K students at the Tempe Campus during Fall 2023...where the hell else are they going to go to party? LOL it's different but no way in hell it's dead.

[ASU Diablo]

Speaking of Mill (Ave)...still about 2 to 5 years out.

https://azbigmedia.com/real-estate/t...gin-this-year/

The Hayden Flour Mill silos and building have stood vacant since the mill officially closed in 1998. But that’s about to change. In October, the city of Tempe announced the approval of a restoration and redevelopment plan for the historic Hayden Flour Mill, which stands at the corner of Mill Avenue and Rio Salado Parkway.

“The mill is truly a central, iconic building and very unique building to Tempe’s history,” said Jared Smith, senior curator at the Tempe History Museum. “It makes sense that that building is a focal point going forward.”

The current building operated from 1918 to 1998, when it closed. Since 2001, multiple renovation attempts have been proposed to no avail, mostly due to an expiration of development rights.

In 2021, Tempe issued a request for proposal for new developers and received two responses.

In early 2022, the city entered negotiations for the redevelopment of Hayden Flour Mill and surrounding area with Venue Project, a company with experience restoring iconic buildings, and Sunbelt Holdings, which has been involved in other Tempe development projects. In October, the agreement was approved, and now the work toward revitalization can begin.

The development project calls for new restaurants and shops, a public park, restoration of the mill and its silos, and an improved trailhead to the A Mountain.

Within the next year, an environmental investigation will be done on the site to identify any harmful materials. The next step will be taking inventory of the equipment that was left behind in the building and cleaning it out or integrating it into the project as well as cleaning up the grounds of the site to begin designing the public park, according to Josh Rutherford, economic development administrator for the mill project.

Construction will likely begin in the next two to three years, and within five years, the majority of the project will be complete, Rutherford said.

Along with the development partners, the Salt River Pima-Maricopa Indian Community has been involved in negotiations about the mill, and a memorandum of understanding has established a foundation of communication between the city, the developers and SRP-MIC.

“As we move forward, every step, like the park boundaries, the development itself, they’re (SRP-MIC) very much involved as a development partner with us,” Rutherford said.

The partnership aims to ensure Indigenous people are acknowledged for their agricultural developments in Tempe through incorporating Indigenous products into retail space or having insights on the trailhead that educate and acknowledge that history, according to Rutherford.

The Hayden Flour Mill is a relic of Tempe’s agricultural past and growth of Tempe as well as being the namesake of the bustling Mill Avenue. The mill building was built in 1918 and remains the oldest cast-in-place, reinforced concrete building in Tempe.

The original Hayden Flour Mill was built in 1874 but burned down – and after being rebuilt in 1895, burned down again. Architects and builders used techniques developed in the wake of the great San Francisco earthquake and fire of 1906 to make the building fire-proof, according to the city of Tempe.

The grain elevator and silos east of the mill were constructed in 1951 and remained the tallest structures in Tempe until 2007.

After its conception, the Hayden Flour Mill company was quickly the largest purchaser of wheat in the state and one of the most prominent companies in the state’s agricultural industry.

“Highlighting this agricultural history is a core part, I think, of tying the community’s heritage and the business history back into the site where it really kind of started,” Tempe History Museum’s Smith said of the plan to honor the “legacy business” that was one of the longest-running in the state, at more than 120 years.

[PHX31]

Originally Posted by ASU Diablo

Speaking of Mill (Ave)...still about 2 to 5 years out.

https://azbigmedia.com/real-estate/t...gin-this-year/

It'll be great once this thing is finally re-developed.

I don't quite understand the indigenous involvement from the angle of "... acknowledged for their agricultural developments in Tempe through incorporating Indigenous products into retail space or having insights on the trailhead that educate and acknowledge that history..." (EDIT: Yes, there were the canal systems around the Valley and they were agricultural people and the mill sort of has to do with agriculture, but was there some specific significant indigenous agricultural elements on the Mill site itself? I kind of doubt it being right next to the butte.)

Although, I would think if they're doing any digging around as part of the development they'd need some archaeologists and even tribes members around. Back in 2007 I saw with my own two eyes an excavator dig up a skeleton not even 1000 ft away when they were doing some trenching for the light rail. There's stuff and sites and unknown burials and whatnot all over the place over there.

[skiesthelimit]

Originally Posted by MiEncanto

Tempe's transformation is astounding.

It somehow has become far more dense, urban, and modern while also losing the vibe that made it cool. Mill Ave is dead. The music scene is dead (though to be fair that's been gone for like 20 years). The restaurant and bar industry is mostly dead or boring, despite the rest of metro Phoenix doing really well. Some of the dives are going away. It's sad.

The music scene in Tempe is most definitely not dead. It’s just almost exclusively EDM, so much so Bang Bang Tempe just opened up a new venue on Mill to cater to house music while serving as a restaurant during the day. With every new tower being built there’s a new restaurant being added and the little plaza off rural with the fox food concepts is currently underway and above ground. A bar/speakeasy concept is being built on Mill as we speak. Are we looking at the same Tempe?

[muertecaza]

Originally Posted by ASU Diablo

Speaking of Mill (Ave)...still about 2 to 5 years out.

https://azbigmedia.com/real-estate/t...gin-this-year/

If this ever actually happens, then we'll know Tempe has truly arrived.

[cdfif030]

Originally Posted by PHX31

Back in 2007 I saw with my own two eyes an excavator dig up a skeleton not even 1000 ft away when they were doing some trenching for the light rail. There's stuff and sites and unknown burials and whatnot all over the place over there.

I think this is exactly the reason. Much of the remains have not been preserved so many residents do not know the history. The University was built on ruins, as was my house in north Peoria in 2006 (I did not know this until Peoria built "historic" park). The valley has had a population around a million people well before europeans showed up. The canal system then spanned the valley and morphed into todays system. SRP canals run parallel to or through many ancient canal alignments. These canals are largely why Tempe, surrounded by a large region of developed agriculture, was able to develop and sustain a major flour mill.

[azcats]

Originally Posted by MiEncanto

Tempe's transformation is astounding.

It somehow has become far more dense, urban, and modern while also losing the vibe that made it cool. Mill Ave is dead. The music scene is dead (though to be fair that's been gone for like 20 years). The restaurant and bar industry is mostly dead or boring, despite the rest of metro Phoenix doing really well. Some of the dives are going away. It's sad.

Well...maybe it's a generational thing. Other than growing up about 10 miles exactly due north of asu...and my father taking us to asu football games as kids - Frank Kush teams...I don't care about Tempe. I spent my 20s in Tucson. That said...it is way better than it was decades ago. I can remember how Scottsdale Road (and this all seems as if it were yesterday) would descend towards the river (dry then) and it was really bad - strip joints...etc. Probably just twenty years ago - you would get off the 202 - and see piles of toilets in some old yard...and j-johns, etc. So, the change is pretty dramatic. And it seems to have transform - so quickly. I do remember one good thing - way back in the 70s right there in the middle of downtown/asu campus. The CO-OP run by - I guess, "hippies." I just remember going there to get yogart and honey. I would pretty sure believe that it is long gone.

[muertecaza]

Originally Posted by azcats

Well...maybe it's a generational thing. Other than growing up about 10 miles exactly due north of asu...and my father taking us to asu football games as kids - Frank Kush teams...I don't care about Tempe. I spent my 20s in Tucson. That said...it is way better than it was decades ago. I can remember how Scottsdale Road (and this all seems as if it were yesterday) would descend towards the river (dry then) and it was really bad - strip joints...etc. Probably just twenty years ago - you would get off the 202 - and see piles of toilets in some old yard...and j-johns, etc. So, the change is pretty dramatic. And it seems to have transform - so quickly. I do remember one good thing - way back in the 70s right there in the middle of downtown/asu campus. The CO-OP run by - I guess, "hippies." I just remember going there to get yogart and honey. I would pretty sure believe that it is long gone.

Sounds like not too much has changed! For the strip club crowd, Skin Cabaret and Dream Palace are still holding on strong in North Tempe on Scottsdale Rd. And the Tempe Farmer's Market on University just west of Mill is still slingin' the hippie produce. If you look hard enough between Curry and the 202 in the county island, I bet you could even find some toilets

At least half kidding. The change is definitely dramatic, even if some of the old stuff is still hanging on.

[azcats]

Originally Posted by muertecaza

Sounds like not too much has changed! For the strip club crowd, Skin Cabaret and Dream Palace are still holding on strong in North Tempe on Scottsdale Rd. And the Tempe Farmer's Market on University just west of Mill is still slingin' the hippie produce. If you look hard enough between Curry and the 202 in the county island, I bet you could even find some toilets

At least half kidding. The change is definitely dramatic, even if some of the old stuff is still hanging on.

......

[combusean]

Originally Posted by skiesthelimit

The music scene in Tempe is most definitely not dead. It’s just almost exclusively EDM...

I have the feeling this is something pretty much anyone over 35 or so has difficulty understanding. Rock music is effectively dead, and has been for a while, and it's not just in Tempe. Very few places that used to have or much less rely on live bands have successfully made the transition to what the younger crowd is in to. It has nothing to do with gentrification, and has definitely happened before like with all the late night restaurants featuring live music and dancing that died out in the 1980s.

[xymox]

Originally Posted by combusean

I have the feeling this is something pretty much anyone over 35 or so has difficulty understanding. Rock music is effectively dead, and has been for a while, and it's not just in Tempe. Very few places that used to have or much less rely on live bands have successfully made the transition to what the younger crowd is in to. It has nothing to do with gentrification, and has definitely happened before like with all the late night restaurants featuring live music and dancing that died out in the 1980s.

Agreed. I've been into EDM for a very long time (since the 90s) and while there were some good time periods with a lot of stuff that would come through town - now it's crazy. Every weekend there's 8-10 shows between DTPHX and Tempe and sometimes with 3-4 big international names. Can be a hard time deciding which show to hit sometimes. Tempe/PHX are definitely on the rotation for these acts - it's now the golden era for EDM here. (In fact a legendary act from Germany is doing a 30th anniversary tour world wide and chose only two US cities to hit - Denver and Phoenix).

[MiEncanto]

Originally Posted by xymox

Agreed. I've been into EDM for a very long time (since the 90s) and while there were some good time periods with a lot of stuff that would come through town - now it's crazy. Every weekend there's 8-10 shows between DTPHX and Tempe and sometimes with 3-4 big international names. Can be a hard time deciding which show to hit sometimes. Tempe/PHX are definitely on the rotation for these acts - it's now the golden era for EDM here. (In fact a legendary act from Germany is doing a 30th anniversary tour world wide and chose only two US cities to hit - Denver and Phoenix).

I hope the kids are enjoying these guys hit play on their Mac while they pretend to adjust the gain.

yah yah, get off my lawn stuff. There's a time and age for this type of stuff. But it doesn't create a music culture the same way artists with instruments do.

I love going down to Crescent to see smaller indie rock bands play. It's my favorite venue in town. I appreciate the diversity of venues we have to offer.

I'm not the only one who thinks Tempe is dead. On the Taste of AZ podcast everyone on one of their most recent shows agreed it was mostly dead.

I'm excited to see what the Pretty Decent guys (Wren and Wolf, Chico Malo) do with the old PF Changs on Mill.

[somethingfast]

Originally Posted by combusean

Rock music is effectively dead, and has been for a while, and it's not just in Tempe.

I think you mean live rock music at clubs is dead and not dead in general? Rock music (esp. hard rock) will NEVER die.

[combusean]

Yeah, but it's just not mainstream anymore. New bands are going to have difficulty headlining the Marquee and places like that, but I don't follow new music much in my old age.

Between drinking less being a generational shift and ASU seemingly having been successful at dropping its reputation as a party school, I don't really see a lot of future in a thriving bar scene on Mill regardless of how live or dead it is at any given time. And there's practically nothing in Tempe that would appeal to older crowds like the Milennials and up that still do regular happy hours after work, half the time because they're open too late if at all during the week.

I wonder how much of those Downtown Tempe residents in everything they've built recently are simply going to downtown Phoenix to hang out if they feel up for it and would want something closer to home.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by somethingfast

I think you mean live rock music at clubs is dead and not dead in general? Rock music (esp. hard rock) will NEVER die.

Jazz didn't die when rock came along, and rock won't die at the hands of EDM. What is clear is that rock is no longer the dominant genre. It will persist indefinitely but with less audience share than it once had. Maybe we'll even see non-profit rock clubs playing the same role that the Nash in downtown Phoenix does with jazz.

[muertecaza]

The upcoming January 23rd DRC study session will see the presentation of a new proposal for the old college bookstore:

Project overview for College & 7th Mixed Use (PL230076), a new mixed-use development located at the southwest corner of College Avenue and 7th Street. Presentation by Manjula Vaz of Gammage & Burnham PLC, Eran Fields of FH Tempe, and Bob Thompson of TVA Architects.

[muertecaza]

Originally Posted by azsunsurfer

No....as I said that's the SW corner...I am talking about the NW Corner....that was supposedly presented in the study session last week... Trying to find renderings of that project.

These projects are on the regular agenda for the DRC on January 23rd, so if nothing else we should see renderings by then.

[IndyAZ]

Originally Posted by muertecaza

These projects are on the regular agenda for the DRC on January 23rd, so if nothing else we should see renderings by then.

Or I could just upload the current renderings....
It's the Brick Building that was shared previously, but it's now 13 stories.