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  #11501  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2024, 1:49 AM
Colin May Colin May is offline
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I wonder how much of this was deferred maintenance and the basic dynamics of running a newer growing suburb compared to a core municipality. Many metros even with struggling core municipalities have successful suburban municipalities. Often they start to struggle if they become fully developed and have to start coping with infrastructure maintenance without the development fee ponzi scheme.
Dartmouth finances were a mess from day 1 (1961 as a city) and 1995 amalgamation saved them. Burnside was a financial mess from the day it was started by Commodore Estates and then taken over by the city who thought land speculation would expand the tax base, didn't work because the costs and debt servicing were greater than the revenue.
Long ago I went through the Dartmouth financials from day one and traced the never ending financial mess/trouble of Burnside. In addition Dartmouth had the most generous pension plan of any municipality in Canada and that was also a financial drag. At amalgamation Halifax,Bedford and Halifax County all joined the same pension plan as Dartmouth.

Last edited by Colin May; Jan 18, 2024 at 2:08 AM.
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  #11502  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2024, 2:32 AM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is online now
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Originally Posted by Colin May View Post
Dartmouth finances were a mess from day 1 (1961 as a city) and 1995 amalgamation saved them. Burnside was a financial mess from the day it was started by Commodore Estates and then taken over by the city who thought land speculation would expand the tax base, didn't work because the costs and debt servicing were greater than the revenue.
Long ago I went through the Dartmouth financials from day one and traced the never ending financial mess/trouble of Burnside. In addition Dartmouth had the most generous pension plan of any municipality in Canada and that was also a financial drag. At amalgamation Halifax,Bedford and Halifax County all joined the same pension plan as Dartmouth.
Very interesting, Colin! Thanks for your perspective as someone who actually was there in the middle of the political goings on in Dartmouth at the time.

I’m surprised that they were in such bad shape, but I wasn’t privy to the financial part of it all and TBH wasn’t much interested at the time. I will say that in my time as a summer student I did see a lot of maintenance projects happening, from many street reconstructions, to replacing ancient water mains in the downtown before they failed, sidewalk installations, etc. I wasn’t under the impression that they were struggling financially as the project tenders were always rolling out.

Burnside is a curiosity for me in that it tends to draw a lot of negativity on SSP and other places, but people seem to forget how much business - and employment - it supports, and has supported. So even if it wasn’t a moneymaker for the city, it provided a lot for the people… and still does. I spent much of my career there, and was always appreciative that I could work in that environment rather than being crammed into the downtown Halifax ratrace.
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  #11503  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2024, 1:07 PM
kzt79 kzt79 is offline
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Originally Posted by Colin May View Post
Dartmouth finances were a mess from day 1 (1961 as a city) and 1995 amalgamation saved them. Burnside was a financial mess from the day it was started by Commodore Estates and then taken over by the city who thought land speculation would expand the tax base, didn't work because the costs and debt servicing were greater than the revenue.
Long ago I went through the Dartmouth financials from day one and traced the never ending financial mess/trouble of Burnside. In addition Dartmouth had the most generous pension plan of any municipality in Canada and that was also a financial drag. At amalgamation Halifax,Bedford and Halifax County all joined the same pension plan as Dartmouth.
Very interesting! Does that extreme pension generosity continue to this day?
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  #11504  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2024, 1:48 PM
IanWatson IanWatson is online now
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Yeah the business parks were a key reason for amalgamation. All four former municipalities were in a race-to-the-bottom to attract "economic development" in the form of business park tenants and were selling land in the parks at a very heavy loss. Amalgamation greatly reduced the incentive to undercut eachother.
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  #11505  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2024, 1:50 PM
IanWatson IanWatson is online now
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What is the Portland St frontage?
The former parking lot of the former dental clinic.
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  #11506  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2024, 2:05 PM
Colin May Colin May is offline
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Very interesting! Does that extreme pension generosity continue to this day?
Yes. The HRM pension plan had many years of 'special payments' made by taxpayers and employees to the tune of $234 million (including interest). The special payments ended December 31 2022. The plan was underfunded from the end of 2009. In 2023 the savings from the cessation of 'special payments' never saw the light of day, the staff left the number in the budget and also increased taxes.
And HRM employees also receive a 'Long service award' upon retirement, federal tax rules do not allow HRM to have an investment account to meet the expense and the annual cost comes out of your property taxes. Nice to retire with a pension, plus CPP plus a service award in cash ( not available elsewhere in Canada).
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  #11507  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2024, 2:11 PM
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Keith P. Keith P. is online now
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Originally Posted by kzt79 View Post
Very interesting! Does that extreme pension generosity continue to this day?
I too am very curious about the pension plan for the municipality. It is indeed gold-plated, if not solid gold.

Sticking to the public sector it is fascinating to compare the 3 levels of govt via their respective pension plans. From least generous to most generous:

Bottom of the barrel: Province of NS

The provincial pension plan had a checkered history, with periods of great prosperity in the late 1990s (to the point where there were contribution holidays because the actuaries said the plan was overfunded beyond federal regulation limits) to the dire straits it supposedly encountered after the 2008 economic crisis. Ignoring the advice to never sell in the middle of a downturn, the provincial bean-counters in charge convinced Graham Steele in 2010 that the entire thing could collapse and needed stringent cutbacks.

The result has been a piece of provincial legislation that imposes pretty draconian restrictions on things like indexing, and a benefit package that is very bare-bones. Despite a funding level bouncing around a couple of percentage points either side of 100%, most members receiving a PNS pension have received either zero indexing or some minimal amount less than 1% over the last 10 years. However, those measures do not extend to the Pension Service Corp itself, spun off from govt, which has grown in numbers, works out of posh offices in Purdy's, and whose top management, most of whom are ex-PNS bureaucrats, would be by far the best-paid in the provincial system if they were not technically no longer part of that. The CEO pulls in a cool half-million annually.

Note that this is separately managed from the NS Teacher's Pension Plan, which is and always has been a mess. That has been on life support for many years.

Middle of the Road: Government of Canada Pension Plan

Not too surprisingly, the pension plan for the feds is pretty solid since they have the ability to print money. They receive COLA indexing automatically, have far better benefits than what ex-PNS employees are allowed, do not need to worry about the funding level of the plan, and generally have little reason to be unhappy with it. Like most pension plans including that of the province, it is harmonized with CPP, so that when a pensioner turns 65, the pension amount they receive from the plan is reduced by the amount of the CPP benefit.

The Gold Standard: HRM Pension Plan

The HRM pension plan is very rich indeed, at least for those members receiving benefits. A pension amount upon retirement is based upon a member's best 3 years of average salary (PNS and most other plans uses 5 years, which tends to reduce the amount somewhat), offers full indexing to COLA each year, and unlike most plans is not harmonized with CPP. This means that the pension one receives does not change when you turn 65 and the CPP payments are on top of that, a very unusual practice. COLA is also granted by their Board each year. I am unclear about retiree fringe benefits but would expect them to be largely the same as HRM employees receive. Overall, this is a remarkbly generous plan. How they do it is a mystery given the checkered and expensive history of defined-benefit pensions in the last couple of decades. One suspects their Council-filled Board is not sharp enough to ask many questions and that HRM writes a pretty big cheque to the plan every year to pay for the largesse. However, it is not particularly transparent.

The poster boy for this plan is now-departed HRPD Chief Kinsella, who transferred here, brought his portable pension from his previous police dept career with him, earned big money here for five years, and after transferring his pension from out west into the HRM plan, retired with what is a very rich pension indeed thanks to HRM generosity (or laxness). It is not unheard of for HRM employees like him to actually take significantly more home each month in retirement than they did while employed thanks to the added CPP amount and the reduced payroll deduction amounts. Few other plans have been able to replicate this financial sleight of hand. One would think all other pension managers would be lined up at HRM's door for advice on how they manage to produce such financial magic.
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  #11508  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2024, 3:36 PM
kzt79 kzt79 is offline
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Thanks for the great overview! I would have thought any pension top ups would show up -somewhere- in the city's annual budget, but maybe they've found a way to bury it?
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  #11509  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2024, 3:55 PM
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Thanks for the great overview! I would have thought any pension top ups would show up -somewhere- in the city's annual budget, but maybe they've found a way to bury it?
Probably listed under "miscellaneous expenses."
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  #11510  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2024, 6:32 PM
Colin May Colin May is offline
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HRM retirees have not had an increase in their pension. An increase was not allowed because the plan was never fully funded. Details of the plan are available in the footnotes of the HRM audited statements and more details are in statements and independent actuarial valuations of the HRM Pension Plan website. Minutes of the pension plan committee are available online. The committee members must be members of the pension plan as a employee or as a retiree. There are no independent members representing the taxpayers
Documents are here : https://hrmpensionplan.ca/about-us/plan-documents/pension-committee-minutes
Look at the number of HRM employees at a recent meeting of the committee ....
https://hrmpensionplan.ca/themes/user/si...mmittee_Meeting_Minutes_Final_Signed.pdf
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  #11511  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2024, 8:12 PM
Jreeb Jreeb is online now
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https://www.halifax.ca/about-halifax/regional-community-planning/housing-accelerator-fund

Have these changes been discussed yet? I think some main highlights are essentially the elimination of ER-1 zoning with ER-2/ER-3 zoning replacing it. Tons of new ER-3 zones allowing for small multi-residential builds or the potential assemblage of lots for a larger build.

Also most of the lots surrounding Saint Mary's University are proposed to be changed to HR zoning allowing for buildings up to 7 to 9 storeys.

COR zoning is proposed to have increased height now.

Increased max height to 40 storeys with a FAR of 10 in CEN zones. Also allowing minor height increases for existing development agreements.

Incentivize wood and timber construction.

There are some more but the proposed changes are quite significant and may impact values across Halifax/Dartmouth. If I have interpreted something wrong, please correct me.
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  #11512  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2024, 8:15 PM
Jreeb Jreeb is online now
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https://experience.arcgis.com/experience...d=dataSource_5-18d178111ce-layer-16%3A29

I forgot to link the map with the proposed zoning changes. Apologies if this is old news for some but this is the first I have come across these updates with the new map.
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  #11513  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2024, 12:40 AM
Arrdeeharharharbour Arrdeeharharharbour is offline
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Originally Posted by Jreeb View Post
https://experience.arcgis.com/experience...d=dataSource_5-18d178111ce-layer-16%3A29

I forgot to link the map with the proposed zoning changes. Apologies if this is old news for some but this is the first I have come across these updates with the new map.
Thanks for posting this! I googled a PID from one of the sites... bottom of Victoria St. where it meets Windmill Rd. and found this:
https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/478acf8709f54aa9b1ba2f356b30752b

...which is a list of site specific requests. Regarding the site I just googled the request is for three towers 12 - 20 stories. This is not something I'd come across before. Also, 20 stories in Sackville, up to 33 on Main St. Dartmouth and another 20 story on Joe Howe and Craigmore, etc. It's an interesting read for sure.
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  #11514  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2024, 12:57 AM
Arrdeeharharharbour Arrdeeharharharbour is offline
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post

Burnside is a curiosity for me in that it tends to draw a lot of negativity on SSP and other places, but people seem to forget how much business - and employment - it supports, and has supported. So even if it wasn’t a moneymaker for the city, it provided a lot for the people… and still does. I spent much of my career there, and was always appreciative that I could work in that environment rather than being crammed into the downtown Halifax ratrace.


I don't understand it either. I attribute it to weak mindedness and fear of being looked down upon by peers which leads to the 'keeping up with the Jones's' thing. Similar situation with car dealerships and other retail. Folks seem to want everything these places offer but feel the need to separate themselves from it. Humans can be quite awful and car dealerships quite benign. Why would anyone want a poorly behaved human for a neighbour when they could have a car dealership?
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  #11515  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2024, 1:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Colin May View Post
HRM retirees have not had an increase in their pension. An increase was not allowed because the plan was never fully funded.
I have not gone far back in time, but the most recent actuarial valuations showed the plan was 103% funded. The master text of the plan has various statements regarding benefit increases depending upon which employer the person originally came from and all of them seem to have text specifying benefit increases over time, such as CPI or 6%, whatever is less. The avalanche of words in many of those documents make it hard to determine who decides on increases and when that is done, but it is something that certainly was foreseen and expected.
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  #11516  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2024, 1:21 AM
Arrdeeharharharbour Arrdeeharharharbour is offline
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Originally Posted by Colin May View Post
HRM retirees have not had an increase in their pension. An increase was not allowed because the plan was never fully funded. Details of the plan are available in the footnotes of the HRM audited statements and more details are in statements and independent actuarial valuations of the HRM Pension Plan website. Minutes of the pension plan committee are available online. The committee members must be members of the pension plan as a employee or as a retiree. There are no independent members representing the taxpayers
Documents are here : https://hrmpensionplan.ca/about-us/plan-documents/pension-committee-minutes
Look at the number of HRM employees at a recent meeting of the committee ....
https://hrmpensionplan.ca/themes/user/si...mmittee_Meeting_Minutes_Final_Signed.pdf

I've heard that perspective employees at HRM have declined employment due to the cost of the pension plan to themselves as an employee. But this isn't unusual for young folks who don't yet realize that they will grow old and want a pension.

As for the term 'underfunded', I understand that there are at least two types of underfunded which are essentially just tools to control the contributions necessary from employees and employers. As I understand it, a pension plan can be considered quite healthy whilst being 'underfunded'. This is not to say that being underfunded in anyway is a perfect situation, but rather it's a lot less dire than this provocative word might suggest.
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  #11517  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2024, 5:14 AM
Colin May Colin May is offline
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Originally Posted by Arrdeeharharharbour View Post
I've heard that perspective employees at HRM have declined employment due to the cost of the pension plan to themselves as an employee. But this isn't unusual for young folks who don't yet realize that they will grow old and want a pension.

As for the term 'underfunded', I understand that there are at least two types of underfunded which are essentially just tools to control the contributions necessary from employees and employers. As I understand it, a pension plan can be considered quite healthy whilst being 'underfunded'. This is not to say that being underfunded in anyway is a perfect situation, but rather it's a lot less dire than this provocative word might suggest.
The province applies different rules to public sector pension plans on the assumption that the plans can never be bankrupt because the province or a municipality can always increase the cost of their services, otherwise known as taxes, and the private sector cannot increase the cost of their services.
If HRM had to follow the same rules as the private sector the cost would be so high as to significantly increase municipal taxes or reduce the benefits or a combination of both. Large businesses in Canada once had defined benefit pension plans and even banks closed off defined benefit plans to new employees. The SMU pension plan and CBRM plan is now managed by the provincial entity resulting in lower cost of administration and a larger amount of capital to be deployed.
In the calendar years 2018 - 2022 Taxpayers and employees made 'Special payments' totalling $101 million (including interest). In the same years the total payments into the plan, including the special payments totalled $252 million.
The Dalhousie University defined benefit pension plan is fully funded, and has had lower contribution rates for many years.
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  #11518  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2024, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Musquodoboit County View Post
That white building in the above picture to the left.
What is that? Is that the ugliest building in all of HRM?
Student housing + daycare on the ground floor. It's in terrible state, the underground parking has gone through major repairs around two years ago. When I arrived to Halifax my kid was briefly in that daycare, there was a hole (small) on one of the daycare rooms where you can see the cars parked underneath. It was usually cover with a flower pot. I'm not kidding.
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  #11519  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2024, 2:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Colin May View Post
The province applies different rules to public sector pension plans on the assumption that the plans can never be bankrupt because the province or a municipality can always increase the cost of their services, otherwise known as taxes, and the private sector cannot increase the cost of their services.
Yes, those rules were changed in 2020 although HRM was still making special payments mandated in earlier years, and I believe those continued until recently when the HRM plan went into surplus. As you note, since govts cannot go bankrupt (at least not easily) it was thought the solvency test was unnecessary. However the provincial plan is hamstrung by specific legislation that badly needs amendment as it is very prescriptive and limiting.

Quote:
The SMU pension plan and CBRM plan is now managed by the provincial entity resulting in lower cost of administration and a larger amount of capital to be deployed.
In the calendar years 2018 - 2022 Taxpayers and employees made 'Special payments' totalling $101 million (including interest). In the same years the total payments into the plan, including the special payments totalled $252 million.
The Dalhousie University defined benefit pension plan is fully funded, and has had lower contribution rates for many years.
The NS Pension Agency is actively seeking organizations that have pension plans which can be rolled into the provincial plan, but has provided no information to members as to the health of the plans being brought in or how they affect the health of the main plan. This is another misguided piece of legislation in that some aspects are tightly prescribed, while others allow the agency to do whatever it wants.

If the Dal plan is as healthy as you say (I have no knowledge) then the NS and HRM pension management groups needs to go study at their knee.
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  #11520  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2024, 3:39 PM
terrynorthend terrynorthend is offline
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Additionally to the FAR 10/40 story increase in CEN zones, they mention possibly additional height in FGNs.
I would love to see some FGNs designated for 150m/50 story maximums. North of Almon + Kempt road comes to mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jreeb View Post
https://www.halifax.ca/about-halifax/regional-community-planning/housing-accelerator-fund

Have these changes been discussed yet? I think some main highlights are essentially the elimination of ER-1 zoning with ER-2/ER-3 zoning replacing it. Tons of new ER-3 zones allowing for small multi-residential builds or the potential assemblage of lots for a larger build.

Also most of the lots surrounding Saint Mary's University are proposed to be changed to HR zoning allowing for buildings up to 7 to 9 storeys.

COR zoning is proposed to have increased height now.

Increased max height to 40 storeys with a FAR of 10 in CEN zones. Also allowing minor height increases for existing development agreements.

Incentivize wood and timber construction.

There are some more but the proposed changes are quite significant and may impact values across Halifax/Dartmouth. If I have interpreted something wrong, please correct me.
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