PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II

[Evergrey]

I agree that Baum/Centre isn't part of any single neighborhood... and plays the role of the East End's "Main Street". The twin corridor has had this dual nature of being high-density yet automobile-centric for many years... the balance seems to be tipping toward high-density development these days.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

Just this weekend I was driving down that road and thinking to myself how awful that stretch of Centre between Market District and Whole Foods is.

Great news.

Yeah that's just a weird, uninterrupted stretch of deadness.

This is such a bizarre building for the area and its situation with the street (along with its parking lots on both sides) is simply horrendous. I really think it is the single biggest offender in limiting the potential for the immediate "neighborhood".

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

I agree that Baum/Centre isn't part of any single neighborhood... and plays the role of the East End's "Main Street". The twin corridor has had this dual nature of being high-density yet automobile-centric for many years... the balance seems to be tipping toward high-density development these days.

I think the seeds were planted with the upzoning of much of the area around a decade ago.

Also, Baum-Centre is one the only parts of the city the Pittsburgh Planning Commission directly has to approve new construction and renovation for. My guess is this has resulted in some total stinkers of projects being defeated over this period.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

I agree that Baum/Centre isn't part of any single neighborhood... and plays the role of the East End's "Main Street". The twin corridor has had this dual nature of being high-density yet automobile-centric for many years... the balance seems to be tipping toward high-density development these days.

Good, comprehensive redevelopment of the corridor is really vital to overall East End redevelopment, in East Liberty and Larimer specifically.

I think Centre is prime territory for full streetscape revamp and a dedicated bike lane. Baum is a bit tougher due to its multi-lane use and increased auto-centric design and fronting business/facility uses, but improvements along it will go far in making the area more attractive in all meanings of the word.

[Evergrey]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I do wonder if we're headed to the point where Baum-Centre needs its own "branding" as a neighborhood.

For now I am going with it being part of Greater East Liberty. If you look on a map, there are a bunch of major arterial roads converging more or less straight into East Liberty for a pretty big area, including Baum and Centre (as well as Penn, Shady, Highland, Larimer, Hamilton, etc.). And historic development patterns reflect that as well--East Liberty was the big train station over there, and development sort of spread out from it.

At some point I think there is going to be a border with Bloomfield, Oakland, and probably at least parts of Shadyside (although I am thinking both the Highland and Ellsworth business areas could count as part of Greater East Liberty). But personally, I'd say Greater East Liberty extends out Baum/Centre to at least Aiken.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

I agree that Baum/Centre isn't part of any single neighborhood... and plays the role of the East End's "Main Street". The twin corridor has had this dual nature of being high-density yet automobile-centric for many years... the balance seems to be tipping toward high-density development these days.

It is literally a "highway" (PA Route 380), and really was developed as an autocentric corridor (it is no coincidence the AAA and all sorts of historic auto dealers were in that stretch). Unfortunately I doubt it will ever count as walkable in the same sense as Penn, Highland, and so forth. But densifying it is definitely nice.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

This is such a bizarre building for the area and its situation with the street (along with its parking lots on both sides) is simply horrendous. I really think it is the single biggest offender in limiting the potential for the immediate "neighborhood".

On top of everything it also blocks possible access to the Busway station.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

For now I am going with it being part of Greater East Liberty. If you look on a map, there are a bunch of major arterial roads converging more or less straight into East Liberty for a pretty big area, including Baum and Centre (as well as Penn, Shady, Highland, Larimer, Hamilton, etc.). And historic development patterns reflect that as well--East Liberty was the big train station over there, and development sort of spread out from it.

At some point I think there is going to be a border with Bloomfield, Oakland, and probably at least parts of Shadyside (although I am thinking both the Highland and Ellsworth business areas could count as part of Greater East Liberty). But personally, I'd say Greater East Liberty extends out Baum/Centre to at least Aiken.

Calling it East Liberty makes some sense. And as of now there's nothing being developed below Aiken unless the apartments near the corner of Centre and Dithridge get built (and they are, clearly, in North Oakland).

I do find myself wondering if it would be possible to bring back the Aiken Station idea, which got defeated by NIMBYs. Or even better, find some way to put a station near the overpasses of Center/Baum.

Originally Posted by BrianTH

It is literally a "highway" (PA Route 380), and really was developed as an autocentric corridor (it is no coincidence the AAA and all sorts of historic auto dealers were in that stretch). Unfortunately I doubt it will ever count as walkable in the same sense as Penn, Highland, and so forth. But densifying it is definitely nice.

The corridor kinda reminds me of attempts of sun-belt cities to develop dense urban fabrics actually. Same combination of rather high density with a completely uninviting high-speed street.

Originally Posted by BrianTH

On top of everything it also blocks possible access to the Busway station.

Not sure what you mean here. You can easily walk around the block to get to Negley Station. Even if the building wasn't there, you'd still need to get over the rail tracks, after all, and I don't see any reason why the city would build a pedestrian bridge there when you can just walk a block.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Not sure what you mean here. You can easily walk around the block to get to Negley Station. Even if the building wasn't there, you'd still need to get over the rail tracks, after all, and I don't see any reason why the city would build a pedestrian bridge there when you can just walk a block.

I probably should have said "possible more direct access to the Busway station." Obviously you can walk around, but I think having a pedestrian bridge over the tracks with a path to Centre, ala the ELTC, would be much better. I know it doesn't seem like a big deal, but when you are coming from the wrong direction it adds distance and inconvenience, and effectively shortens the radius of the circle considered walking distance from the stop.

[BrianTH]

The first phase of the Saks-site project was approved, to start in April:

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburg...e-of-saks.html

I really hope the second phase actually happens.

[Jonboy1983]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

Looks like a suburban government office building you'd find along the DC Beltway...

^^I think I'd rather have those buildings instead of this in East Liberty tho...

[Austinlee]

^I don't dislike the building. I like its ostentatious scale and shape. It's most of the other lots that ruin that area IMO, giant storage buildings and empty lots for example.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by Austinlee

^I don't dislike the building. I like its ostentatious scale and shape. It's most of the other lots that ruin that area IMO, giant storage buildings and empty lots for example.

Storage buildings have always been part of this area though. It served as the "warehouse district" of the commercial heart of the East End.

Old warehouse/distribution/light industrial type buildings also lend themselves to attractive reuse in revitalizing areas. Empty lots can and will be built upon.

The building itself... I don't hate Centre Commons. The way it is situated on the street is a massive mistake though. And that situation completely detracts from the aesthetics of the building anyway. It's one of the most out-of-place/out-of-context buildings I've ever seen anywhere. And that little patch of grass... why bother?

[East Edge]

Originally Posted by Jonboy1983

Looks like a suburban government office building you'd find along the DC Beltway...

^^I think I'd rather have those buildings instead of this in East Liberty tho...

Classic JSA Architects. I used to work there. Not sure if they are still around but this was their forte in the 80's and 90's.

[BrianTH]

I don't mind the building since the street level along Centre is a lost cause anyway. Nor do I mind putting parking along the tracks.

But those side lots are deeply irritating to me.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I don't mind the building since the street level along Centre is a lost cause anyway. Nor do I mind putting parking along the tracks.

But those side lots are deeply irritating to me.

Though I think Centre at street level can be revitalized. Wasn't Peduto involved in an initiative to totally redevelop the area at one point? Maybe that's the upzoning that eschaton referenced above?

And yes, those side lots are irritating... troubling even... to the point of


thanks for the sweet emoticon, Evergrey

[BrianTH]

Centre just has so much crap at street level--fast-food style restaurants, front parking lots, stupid little lawn areas, blank walls . . . . and East Side is bad, the AAA is bad . . . it can hardly get worse, but I really doubt it will ever be an inviting pedestrian street.

[BrianTH]

Some pretty cool projects are seeking state funding:

http://www.post-gazette.com/business...s/201502250123

On the South Side, Downtown developer McKnight Realty Partners is proposing a major rehabilitation of River Walk Corporate Centre, a former warehouse for barge and railroad traffic built between 1904 and 1907 and now home to about 80 businesses and nonprofits. It is teaming with Landmarks Development Corp., a subsidiary of Pittsburgh History and Landmarks Foundation, to convert vacant or under utilized building space into office, residential and retail uses while upgrading the building’s exterior to historic standards. McKnight also is planning a multi-modal facility for cars and bikes and public realm improvements, including trails and a park-like area, that will take advantage of the riverfront. . . .

Downtown, meanwhile, Highwooods Properties, the owner of PPG Place, has been toying with the idea of putting a grocery in the food court area of 2 PPG Place for the last two years. It is now seeking a $3 million grant from the state to help make good on that plan. If it is successful in obtaining it, “we will commit significant private dollars to develop a 25,000-square-foot grocery store” in 2 PPG, said Andy Wisniewski, vice president of Highwoods in Pittsburgh. . . .

Regarding Macy’s, the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reported in June that Philadelphia developer Core Realty had reached agreement to buy the 13-story building on Smithfield Street with plans to convert all but four floors into apartments. The latest wrinkle is a hotel. According to a project description accompanying Core’s request for a $10 million state grant, a 155-room InterContinental Hotels Group-branded hotel would be built on floors 5 and 6. The department store would take up floors 1-4 and 311 apartment units would be added on floors 6-12. . . .

The Andrew Hotel, described as the “first five-star lifestyle-boutique hotel in Pittsburgh,” to be built in the Strip District and to include a five-star restaurant. Tap Inc. is seeking $5 million.

Hopefully not all this is contingent on getting a state grant (I'd suspect the grocery store might be, but maybe not the others).

River Walk is AWESOME by the way. A total redo with residential is very exciting. Similarly, putting the Macy's building to use with an InterContinental hotel is also very exciting to me.

[WillyC]

Living within 5 mins walking of the whole Centre/Baum/Liberty/Aiken junction, I must say I am happy with the development. I've always hated the NIMBYs arguing against anything over three stories. The area is just within walking distance of so many areas such as Shadyside, East Liberty, and Bloomfield (during the warmer months). The area begs for density.

However, it is going to be horrendous for anyone that doesn't take the bus traffic wise. It is already so horrid that I refuse to meet anyone for dinner or after work drinks unless said rendezvous starts 7 pm or later. I just don't want to deal with that madness. The city is trying to help with the sensors along Centre/Baum, but so far I've not been able to detect any difference in time wasted in the car.

My only hope is this is a long con by the Mayor to eventually force the mass transit issue in that area of the East End. Buses just aren't going to make the type of people that can afford these places happy. Anyone living in this area is going to get tired of getting smacked in the face by students with their backpacks. They are going to get tired of being late to work cause they watched the 71s drive on by without stopping because they are filled with students. They are going to get tired of having their good clothes ruined on a bus packed beyond what could be reasoned to be legal. I started carrying a gym bag not because I work out, but because I got tired of people ruining my work shoes and just wore sneakers. I've had ties and a blazer ripped by students who think a school backpack should have all the bells, whistles, loops, and velcro for a tour in Afghanistan.

I love the area and am very excited about the development, but at the same time I only imagine the transit issue getting worse.