Investors Group Field | Winnipeg

[viperred88]

One wouldn't need to worry about the space the stadium if the playing surface was a few storeys above ground. Like the one proposal to build an arena in downtown edmonton.
here is a video of what I am talking about.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zz3rRiLsbTU


if it were built that way there would be ample room to have commercial on the ground floor and office space overtop

[newflyer]

Originally Posted by viperred88

One wouldn't need to worry about the space the stadium if the playing surface was a few storeys above ground. Like the one proposal to build an arena in downtown edmonton.
here is a video of what I am talking about.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zz3rRiLsbTU


if it were built that way there would be ample room to have commercial on the ground floor and office space overtop

First off a football stadium would be at least 5 times as much space as an NHL arena ... so you would need to have this space to even begin with. In Winnipeg it requires huge supreme effort to utilize an old decaying industrial yard and a few minimal income houses beside said industrail site ... for anything, before Vandall and Gerbasi claim you are destroying the fabric of the city.

Second of all ... the cost of rebuilding 4 or 5 blocks downtown would run into the billions of dollars.

While I would have prefered to see a stadium/retail development downtown (Point Douglas) too ... but honestly the funding and the public willingness is not there. Inner city decay will be maintained .. while Fort Garry will reap the benefits of the lack of vision.

Under the current Winnipeg reality, I hope the UofM gets a rich urban environment from this development.

[viperred88]

I realize all that but you know in 10 yrs down the road we will all be wondering why did we not build it downtown. Yes it will take alot of space but isn't downtown too big anyway this would force people to develop multi-storey buildings with mix-usage instead of having one and two storey wasting space all over downtown.

Yes it would cost lots of money but the cost would be split with the convention centre so it would not be so bad. You would also have hotels, condos and offices built onto to it which in itself would help pay for some of the cost.

Anyway our city planning sucks ass, the end.

[Boreal]

I disagree. A stadium is a complete dead zone. BC Place in Vancouver and Rogers Centre in Toronto are prime examples of downtown venues killing life - except for perhaps on game days. The cost of turning a football complex into a part of a lively development is more than likely astronomical (like the ridiculous cost that surely would have been put forward for the South PD idea). This is alas the CFL, and without a stadium tax - as exists in the US - or significant league input - which the CFL doesn't have the dollars to do - nobody is going to pony up the cash. There is zero opportunity for a return on investment. As well, stadiums require parking spots - especially in vehicle-happy cities like Winnipeg. Many Bomber fans are suburban dwellers. We all know that for a good number of people, a lack of parking (sadly) will keep them at bay.

Don't get me wrong, I understand the merits of a central location, but for 1+9 games a year - and then whatever the playoffs hold - that is not worth catering a central location for. A multi-purpose facility would be great - but the more multipurpose a facility is, the quicker it deteriorates. BMO Field in Toronto, although strictly used for soccer is in considerable use even when FC Toronto isn't playing. From what I have heard that field is deteriorating rapidly. Unfortunately, as much as a new stadium is needed, I don't think the economics work to make it a profoundly impacting project.

The U of M site is not great, but reasonable. The land is already zoned. Parking does exist, which will make people happy. The access roads aren't great, but are adequate - something SPD didn't offer (without massive infrastructure investment). The U of M will be a beneficiary - notably its football team and entire Kinesiology faculty, as the new rec complex (which is part of the deal) is severely needed. The Gritty Grotto as it is now is pitiful.

All in all, I don't see this as a project with a halo over its head. It is a necessary project, and to be done on a cost efficient basis we have to make some serious compromises. I think the U of M site provides that.

Although, I do agree, our city planning could use a boost. No question.

[newflyer]

There are some amazing university stadiums in the US and I hope the new Bomber stadium takes some of those ideas into account.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by viperred88

One wouldn't need to worry about the space the stadium if the playing surface was a few storeys above ground. Like the one proposal to build an arena in downtown edmonton.
here is a video of what I am talking about.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zz3rRiLsbTU


if it were built that way there would be ample room to have commercial on the ground floor and office space overtop

If there's no demand for commercial development there now, it's hard to see how there would suddenly be a requirement for acres of it just because a stadium used 10 times a year, and occasionally for non-football events, appeared. It's a nice idea but completely unrealistic. Winnipeg, at best, can scrape together enough government cash to build a comfortable but fairly basic stadium in a place like the U of M. I would be happy with that.

[viperred88]

Originally Posted by Jeff1987

I disagree. A stadium is a complete dead zone. BC Place in Vancouver and Rogers Centre in Toronto are prime examples of downtown venues killing life - except for perhaps on game days. The cost of turning a football complex into a part of a lively development is more than likely astronomical (like the ridiculous cost that surely would have been put forward for the South PD idea). This is alas the CFL, and without a stadium tax - as exists in the US - or significant league input - which the CFL doesn't have the dollars to do - nobody is going to pony up the cash. There is zero opportunity for a return on investment. As well, stadiums require parking spots - especially in vehicle-happy cities like Winnipeg. Many Bomber fans are suburban dwellers. We all know that for a good number of people, a lack of parking (sadly) will keep them at bay.

Don't get me wrong, I understand the merits of a central location, but for 1+9 games a year - and then whatever the playoffs hold - that is not worth catering a central location for. A multi-purpose facility would be great - but the more multipurpose a facility is, the quicker it deteriorates. BMO Field in Toronto, although strictly used for soccer is in considerable use even when FC Toronto isn't playing. From what I have heard that field is deteriorating rapidly. Unfortunately, as much as a new stadium is needed, I don't think the economics work to make it a profoundly impacting project.

The U of M site is not great, but reasonable. The land is already zoned. Parking does exist, which will make people happy. The access roads aren't great, but are adequate - something SPD didn't offer (without massive infrastructure investment). The U of M will be a beneficiary - notably its football team and entire Kinesiology faculty, as the new rec complex (which is part of the deal) is severely needed. The Gritty Grotto as it is now is pitiful.

All in all, I don't see this as a project with a halo over its head. It is a necessary project, and to be done on a cost efficient basis we have to make some serious compromises. I think the U of M site provides that.

Although, I do agree, our city planning could use a boost. No question.

They key is to tie in some commercial space on all four sides of ground floor in order to avoid the dead zone effect. If you think about it most of our office towers are dead zones after 6pm and weekends.

In Indianapolis the Colts old dome was connected to the city convention centre and now they are building a new Stadium called Lucas Oil or something along those line and its still going to build as part of the convention centre. So to me it seems more than likely profitable for them to keep on doing it.

Actually BC place stadium is having some commercial space built around it, you will see some schematics here that I have provided to you.

I will agree with one though thing with you guys a new barebones stadium on cheap land with added private suites and better seating and a bit of extra commercial space is all what the bombers can afford, plain and simple. I just want them to open up their eyes and explore option. The convention centre would be a super fit for both parties. I really don't get why all winnipegers harp about parking. They bitched before about the MTS Centre going to be built downtown because they think there is no parking but now they adjusted by paying for parking or by looking around for some free parking on the side streets or by simply taking the bus, so I can't see why it wouldn't be the same for about 20 warm days a year.

Originally Posted by jlousa

Something to entertain the peons while we all wait. Warning if you are still using dialup it's possible the work will be done before all of these load.

[1ajs]

word is on cjob that it should be open by 2011 according to asper?

[rrskylar]

^Asper also said he see's nothing wrong with the team being given to him if all levels of govt. provide funding for the stadium and if the University gives him the land. But he did mention that now that he is close to being broke he thinks it's only fair that govt. guarantees a profit on the teams operation and that govt. should cover all losses he might incur.

[newflyer]

Even if Canwest ceased to exsist, which it won't, the Aspers would still manage several hundreds of millions in assets. I would hardly call that being broke.

I also don't see a hundred million dollar investment into a CFL team, as getting them for free.

At worst the Aspers will lose controling interest in CGS. Keep in mind they are the largest shareholders and they will still stand to reap significant rewards if and when the economy turns around.

In the mean time they are building there real estate and private equity business. The stadium will go ahead once all the outstanding issues are resolved completely.

[isaidso]

Pouring $100-150 million into sports infrastructure where the primary tenant would be the Bombers is hardly some financial jackpot for Asper. There are a heap of cities from one end of Canada to the other that are salivating at the generous gift he's bestowing on your city and biggest university.

I bet Halifax, Hamilton, Quebec City, Ottawa, Windsor, Moncton, Calgary, and even Toronto would love to get this stadium and all the other treats being built for Manitobans. If you guys don't want it, I'm sure there's a very long line of cities who'd be pinching themselves to have a local entrepreneur who was this committed to his hometown.

[rrskylar]

^ Who said Asper is pouring 100-150 million into the Stadium ? I believe his contribution to this project is around 40 million (in return for the valuable land the current stadium now sits on and the Winnipeg Blue Bomber football team Gratis ) with the rest supposedly coming from govt. (our tax dollars), sweet deal if you can get it!

[Biff]

I believe Aspers contribution is more substantial now, i thought i heard between $80 and $100 mil out of the proposed $140. The reason i say this is that i was told the Fed and Provincial contribution was approx $20 mil each. You can do the math.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

^ Who said Asper is pouring 100-150 million into the Stadium ? I believe his contribution to this project is around 40 million (in return for the valuable land the current stadium now sits on and the Winnipeg Blue Bomber football team Gratis ) with the rest supposedly coming from govt. (our tax dollars), sweet deal if you can get it!

The interview of Asper by Winnipeg media after the official sports infrastructure investment announcement at U of M homecoming pegged the contribution at between $100-150 million. You are correct that his personal contribution would be less than the total, but without it, there would probably be no investment at all.

The stadium would be home to both the Bombers and Bisons. There would also be millions of dollars poured into other athletic facilities at University of Manitoba and a significant upgrade to the track and field facility. This isn't a money grab at the expense of Manitoba taxpayers. The money is being used to build basic infrastructure at Manitoba's largest university. This is something that is of benefit to all people in the province.

We use tax money to build roads, sewers, and all kinds of other things to improve the places we live. This is exactly the type of investment that will benefit all Manitobans rather than the interests of a privileged few. If you have a kid getting ready to apply to university, you're trying to attract a big sporting event to the city, or you want to improve the image of the university around the world, this is a great way to do it.

[newflyer]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

^ Who said Asper is pouring 100-150 million into the Stadium ? I believe his contribution to this project is around 40 million (in return for the valuable land the current stadium now sits on and the Winnipeg Blue Bomber football team Gratis ) with the rest supposedly coming from govt. (our tax dollars), sweet deal if you can get it!

Sorry .. you are grossly mistaken. You have obviously not read the agreement, but I invite you to enlighten yourself.

The stadium investment will be in excess of 90million from the Creswin... with an agreement that they will get to purchase the Polo Park land at the maket price, of which a portion of revenue will be funnelled to the team,as per the agreement.

In addition Creswin will also be building a top-notch fitness centre at the university and revitalize the old stadium for other outdoor sport activities.


In anycase .. if anyone can find another example of someone investing around 100 million into a CFL team please let me know. In addition if someone can find an example of oneone investing this amount into any sports franchise in Winnipeg history... please share.

The fact this is the largest private investment in a sports franchise in our city's history. It shows the continued commitment to Winnipeg by the Aspers .. and like it was previously said, every other city in Canada which they had someone willing to put down this investment into a public sports complex, operated by the University.

The government is getting a top-notch facility for a small faction of the cost .. a very swet deal if taxpayers can get it and in Winnipeg that is a very real posibility.

[isaidso]

Why don't teams like the Bisons draw big crowds to their football games? I would have expected widespread support in places where football is popular like the Prairies.

I've always been surprised at how small college football crowds are in western Canada. 20,000 to 30,000 to Bison or Huskies games is where it should be. Will this stadium help college football get off the ground?

[newflyer]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Why don't teams like the Bisons draw big crowds to their football games? I would have expected widespread support in places where football is popular like the Prairies.

I've always been surprised at how small college football crowds are in western Canada. 20,000 to 30,000 to Bison or Huskies games is where it should be. Will this stadium help college football get off the ground?

I imagine this new stadium will definately draw many some fans to the games.

IMO the reasons the university football games don't draw well, is as much to do with a lack of marketing, as anything. But the current Bisons stadium offers no comforts for the fans, and is uninviting.

I would think that University football should draw at least 10,000 to 20,000 fans, if it were marketed well.

I know in the states many of the big colleges outdraw the NFL ... and CIS could use them as a model, to build school pride.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by newflyer

I imagine this new stadium will definately draw many some fans to the games.

IMO the reasons the university football games don't draw well, is as much to do with a lack of marketing, as anything. But the current Bisons stadium offers no comforts for the fans, and is uninviting.

I would think that University football should draw at least 10,000 to 20,000 fans, if it were marketed well.

I know in the states many of the big colleges outdraw the NFL ... and CIS could use them as a model, to build school pride.

University of Toronto was attracting 20,000+ way back in the 1950s. There's no reason why college football in this country can't get back to that level again. You're quite right about this being about poor marketing.

Things are slowly getting better though. Out east in Halifax, Friday night football at antiquated Huskies Stadium has become a fixture. There are no pro sports in Nova Scotia at all. College football and college basketball are arguably the #1 and #2 sports there. Saint Mary's football is a big deal in Halifax.

I certainly see the appeal in college sports. It's far cheaper than pro leagues, you're there to support your own school/city/young people, and the atmosphere is fabulous. We just need a handful of strong programs across Canada to act as a catalyst so that college football in this country can blossom.

Saint Mary's, Laval, Queen's, UWO, McMaster, Manitoba?

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by newflyer

Sorry .. you are grossly mistaken. You have obviously not read the agreement, but I invite you to enlighten yourself.

The stadium investment will be in excess of 90million from the Creswin... with an agreement that they will get to purchase the Polo Park land at the maket price, of which a portion of revenue will be funnelled to the team,as per the agreement.

In addition Creswin will also be building a top-notch fitness centre at the university and revitalize the old stadium for other outdoor sport activities.


In anycase .. if anyone can find another example of someone investing around 100 million into a CFL team please let me know. In addition if someone can find an example of oneone investing this amount into any sports franchise in Winnipeg history... please share.

The fact this is the largest private investment in a sports franchise in our city's history. It shows the continued commitment to Winnipeg by the Aspers .. and like it was previously said, every other city in Canada which they had someone willing to put down this investment into a public sports complex, operated by the University.

The government is getting a top-notch facility for a small faction of the cost .. a very swet deal if taxpayers can get it and in Winnipeg that is a very real posibility.

Ever hear of a guy by the name of Mark Chipman, the owner of the Manitoba Moose and MTS Centre (you know, the arena he built)?

[Boreal]

I agree with the above posts about University sports, particularly in Western Canada. First off, I believe they are marketed horrendously bad to the general public. Secondly, they are marketed even worse on campus. It needs to be pushed as a beer swilling utopia. Many students would relish the opportunity on a fine autumn Sunday. It needs to be about the party and not the game. This is not to say the game isn't important, but the game isn't what will sell. A number of football enthusiasts would be interested, but we all know that support in Winnipeg (and much if not all of Western Canada) for University athletics is anemic at the best of times.

We are proud and patriotic, we just wear it extremely cautiously, and hidden well beneath our sleeves.

Just my opinion.