CHICAGO | The 78 Site

[west-town-brad]

I love how inconsistent our city street's design and public infrastructure are. How many different types of bike lanes can we have, how many different types of street light can there be, every L station seems to have been designed in isolation... I could go on....

[ithakas]

The city's blocked off the street parking lanes on Wells from Polk to Roosevelt to install new bike lanes to connect south to the new Wells-Wentworth connector

The signs say through 5/19 for the work, so I wouldn't be surprised if we get access by the summer.

[Tcmetro]

Originally Posted by Klippenstein

They had installed sign posts right in the middle of the bike lanes so I guess they decided to tear up and repave those sections. Another thing I saw people pointing out is how the car lane gets wider at that crosswalk. It’s kinda weird and if anything should get a bulb out for the pedestrians. Maybe it’s mean to be an intersection one day?

It's weird that they painted the lanes like that but my guess is that it's supposed to mark a non-parking zone near the crosswalk and bus stop.

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by ithakas

The city's blocked off the street parking lanes on Wells from Polk to Roosevelt to install new bike lanes to connect south to the new Wells-Wentworth connector

The signs say through 5/19 for the work, so I wouldn't be surprised if we get access by the summer.

Can they please add bike lanes to Polk between Wells and Dearborn too? Or at least continue to Harrison? Not that Polk is too stressful to bike on but connectivity of bike lanes is important for less confident cyclists...

[ithakas]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

Can they please add bike lanes to Polk between Wells and Dearborn too? Or at least continue to Harrison? Not that Polk is too stressful to bike on but connectivity of bike lanes is important for less confident cyclists...

Agreed, that would be excellent! Along with a raised crosswalk at Clark/Polk and a new traffic light at 9th/Clark.

[psxvz]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

Can they please add bike lanes to Polk between Wells and Dearborn too? Or at least continue to Harrison? Not that Polk is too stressful to bike on but connectivity of bike lanes is important for less confident cyclists...

It would be nice if the Harrison ones extended all the way to Michigan Ave.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by Klippenstein

They had installed sign posts right in the middle of the bike lanes so I guess they decided to tear up and repave those sections. Another thing I saw people pointing out is how the car lane gets wider at that crosswalk. It’s kinda weird and if anything should get a bulb out for the pedestrians. Maybe it’s mean to be an intersection one day?

Yes, that will be the intersection with 13th Street. In Related's site plans it looks like a pedestrian crossing only, but it's supposed to be a major pedestrian corridor between the Roosevelt L stop and a future water taxi dock. The concrete pads also indicate a future bus stop at this location. I'm guessing the flare-out is to make sure there is enough space for cars to pass while a bus is stopped.

There is a similar design with a flare-out at the 15th St intersection, but that actually will be a T-intersection with cars coming down 15th, and not just a pedestrian crossing.

What's not clear to me is where the parking entrance, loading docks, etc will be for the future buildings. I think CDOT will strongly discourage any more curb cuts onto Wells, so there must be some kind of service alley under the Crescent Park. Not sure how the riverfront buildings will work, maybe just curbside loading only and zero on-site parking.

[ardecila]

I just noticed an ordinance passed back in December that authorizes $85M in TIF money to build 15th St from Wells to Clark, and realign the Metra tracks. This is apparently needed to open DPI.

The Roosevelt/Clark TIF that covers The 78 has no money and the DPI will be tax-exempt as a state facility, so the city had to move the money from a different TIF (Canal/Congress).

Once those projects are done, the whole site will truly be development-ready. It’s amazing that Related still hasn’t announced any residential or office developments, but I am glad we dodged several bullets in the 90s and 00s that would have developed this site in a very suburban way with townhouses and big-box retail…. I guess it’s worth the wait to get something properly urban.

[jpIllInoIs]

Originally Posted by ardecila

I just noticed an ordinance passed back in December that authorizes $85M in TIF money to build 15th St from Wells to Clark, and realign the Metra tracks. This is apparently needed to open DPI.

That is great news, I like the infrastructure stuff as much as many like the shiny highrises.

[ardecila]

Well, I nerd out about this stuff too (if you haven't noticed!) but the infra is important because the site won't develop without good access. The 15th St connection and the Metra relocation are important because they enable a proper urban site plan with buildings along Clark St instead of a 1/2 mile fortress wall. Dearborn Park is still an obstacle, but you will be able to cut through at 15th and maybe even 14th one day.

Even if Related fails completely and flips the site to other developers or it gets chopped up, the infrastructure will help maintain a minimum standard of architecture/urban design. Shitty urban design would drag this area down for many decades into the future.

[Klippenstein]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Dearborn Park is still an obstacle, but you will be able to cut through at 15th and maybe even 14th one day.

Something I realized recently... 15th Street doesn't go through to State. There's a cul-de-sac on the east half and it turns into Dearborn on the west half.

[Chi-Sky21]

People on 15th are not going to like it, that street is kinda narrow to begin with.

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Well, I nerd out about this stuff too (if you haven't noticed!) but the infra is important because the site won't develop without good access. The 15th St connection and the Metra relocation are important because they enable a proper urban site plan with buildings along Clark St instead of a 1/2 mile fortress wall. Dearborn Park is still an obstacle, but you will be able to cut through at 15th and maybe even 14th one day.

Even if Related fails completely and flips the site to other developers or it gets chopped up, the infrastructure will help maintain a minimum standard of architecture/urban design. Shitty urban design would drag this area down for many decades into the future.

While better access through Dearborn Park is desirable, it's also important to remember that a ton of people do live there. Even with the current poor circulation through DP, just repairing this section of the grid will generate an enormous amount of activity. Even trips to and from DP by people who live there and have access to the private entrances will make a big difference in foot traffic in the area.

There are plenty of "mistakes" around the city where public ROW's have been given to anti-urban redevelopments. Sandberg Village and some of the old 70's townhome developments in Lincoln Park come to mind. But they are much less damaging and go unnoticed because their surroundings are all proper urban environments. I believe DP will be so much less noticeable in a similar way once the grid and circulation are restored in the 78.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by Klippenstein

Something I realized recently... 15th Street doesn't go through to State. There's a cul-de-sac on the east half and it turns into Dearborn on the west half.

15th is not open to cars, but it certainly is for pedestrians (and bikes, if you're agile enough). It's not ideal for bikes but certainly doable, and easily fixed with a bit of concrete.

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright

While better access through Dearborn Park is desirable, it's also important to remember that a ton of people do live there. Even with the current poor circulation through DP, just repairing this section of the grid will generate an enormous amount of activity. Even trips to and from DP by people who live there and have access to the private entrances will make a big difference in foot traffic in the area.

There are plenty of "mistakes" around the city where public ROW's have been given to anti-urban redevelopments. Sandberg Village and some of the old 70's townhome developments in Lincoln Park come to mind. But they are much less damaging and go unnoticed because their surroundings are all proper urban environments. I believe DP will be so much less noticeable in a similar way once the grid and circulation are restored in the 78.

There is already a gate at 14th St... Dearborn Park just needs to unlock it.
https://goo.gl/maps/Ciy3FyJbHvrZS3Zi7

I don't expect Dearborn Park to ever be redeveloped in my lifetime, but yes, it will be perfectly acceptable if they clean up some of the edges and the urban interface.

[Zapatan]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Even if Related fails completely and flips the site to other developers or it gets chopped up, the infrastructure will help maintain a minimum standard of architecture/urban design. Shitty urban design would drag this area down for many decades into the future.

+1

Also, I hope someone like Onni or Crescent Heights gets ahold of the site, Related probably wouldn't build anything that cool (hope they prove me wrong).

[left of center]

Originally Posted by ardecila

I don't expect Dearborn Park to ever be redeveloped in my lifetime

Very depressing to think about, but you are absolutely right. There is still so much developable land south of the Loop that the developmental pressure to raze DP and rebuild more densely are going to take ages to get to the tipping point which would make that undertaking profitable.

In the meantime, little things like creating more access to DP with the surrounding neighborhoods would absolutely help integrate it better.

[ardecila]

I don’t know how you could pull it off, even if it became profitable. The legal, logistical and political barriers are huge.

I guess it depends on how the HOA bylaws are written, but if the homeowners own their home fee-simple I don’t know how you can convince 100% of the owners to sell. It’s not like a condo building where you only need to hit 85%.

[left of center]

Short of city condemning the land, yeah its gonna be tough. Using eminent domain would also be on shaky legal ground since it would be for a private redevelopment instead of for a public project. There is nothing preventing a developer from buying units one by one as they become available, and renting them out until they have purchased every property, but that's definitely playing the long game. Not sure if any land developer has the patience for that, especially with all the parking lots (especially along Wabash) and empty land (Riverline, The 78, remaining parcels at Central Station, etc) that can be/will be developed, creating a lot of new supply for buyers. Long time DP holdouts would also prove to be an issue. There will always be that 1% that just refuses to sell regardless of incentives.

DP is really starting to show its age however, especially the low rise portion. At some point, its going to be necessary to make really costly repairs. The units are also pretty outdated as well when it comes to amenities that buyers are looking for nowadays, with low ceilings and small windows. Given the ever rising land values with these properties so close to the Loop, I could see a time when redevelopment would be inevitable. Might be many decades away still, however.

[gebs]

Originally Posted by left of center

The units are also pretty outdated as well when it comes to amenities that buyers are looking for nowadays, with low ceilings and small windows. Given the ever rising land values with these properties so close to the Loop, I could see a time when redevelopment would be inevitable. Might be many decades away still, however.

True, but at the same time, you can't underestimate how rare it is to have a townhome this integrated into the city that doesn't cost $1.5M+. For urban families with kids, it's a great place to have the best of both worlds - ample green space and connectivity to the city.

I get that it's basically an enclave, but it has many evergreen selling points for the 30-49 crowd.

[west-town-brad]

Originally Posted by gebs

True, but at the same time, you can't underestimate how rare it is to have a townhome this integrated into the city that doesn't cost $1.5M+. For urban families with kids, it's a great place to have the best of both worlds - ample green space and connectivity to the city.

I get that it's basically an enclave, but it has many evergreen selling points for the 30-49 crowd.

my wife's best friend spent her entire childhood growing up in a condo unit at Dearborn Park. its an affordable enclave in the city.