DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[Arapahoe]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Source

I'm quite optimistic we won't have to worry about it.

oh good. Now these brand new livestock and equine facilities might actually get to host the next SXSW.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

It's not a delay - this isn't RTD where if they wait until 2175, they can finish something. There's no more money unless we give it more money.

Of course. The delay I was referring to is the possiblity of the bond measure failing and then it being pitched again in a couple of years as part of a more thought out proposal to complete the National Western Complex (because you know that this arena/food hall proposal seems very last minute and disjointed).

And yes, pissing away $750m is a very real possibility at this point. That's more likely than not, actually - that campus is almost certainly going to be left more unfinished than Fastracks.

This is where I'm confused- I thought that the only unfunded portions were the arena and the repurpose of the 1909 stadium. Everything else that is significant and is unfinished at this point was what was going in as part of the P3 in the Triangle such as Phase 4 – Trade Show/Exposition Hall (is it really necessary for the Stock Show portion given the size of the Livestock and Equestrian Centers?). The CSU facility was accelerated and will be fully built out which was a one of the phases and it's relocation seems to make Phase 7 redundant. What am I missing that was also cut from phases 1&2?

If I were on the NWSS board, I'd be supportive of relocation to Oklahoma City, to subsume the would-be competitors and keep my place in the pecking order.

Musing a bit. I do wonder if the Stock Show is something that the State should be more involved in, rather than Denver. It's something I have thought a lot about. The rest of the state (where 88% of Coloradans live) outside the capital doesn't have to worry about the decay of civic center and the proliferation of homeless camps. And probably cares more about western heritage than the voters of San Francisco-east. If Denver would prefer to exist as an island apart from the state, rather than the leader of the state, that's a perfectly fine choice. But then, arguably, losing an institution as old as the state shouldn't be left to the whims of the voters of that island.

It shouldn't, but the rest of the Front Range (because who gives a shit about the rest asides as a place to camp, hike, hunt, fish, etc.) is what ultimately matters and, to talk about the homeless issue for a moment, seems to have a strategy of offloading their homeless population onto Denver rather than pony up the local funding to offer services themselves. If the State would like to pony up a bit more funding beyond what was provided through the RTA I think that Denver would be willing to cede a bit more control at the Stock Show site.

[i4isoar]

Re New High-Rises

I'm excited that to see the news about 1900 Lawrence, Block 176, Evolve Towers, and One River North all moving forward. Not only will they add some height and density to their respective neighborhoods, but I hope that they set a precedent for better-looking projects in our city. Of these, the one I'm most excited for is Block 176, because the 2 towers look like something right out of Vancouver, and I hope that they will encourage more "Vancouverism" in Denver in the future.

Re The Stock Show vs. SXSW

The Stock Show might not be SXSW, but you can count me firmly in the camp who's for it and I think whatever the City can do to continue to support it is absolutely worth it. After all, the Stock Show doesn't just benefit the City of Denver, but also the rest of the rest of the metro area, and the rest of the state as well.*

*(And I would agree, I think the Stock Show is important enough to the state as a whole that the state govt. should be doing more to support the project and doing whatever it can to help the City of Denver.)

Part of what attracted me to CO years ago was that it had an "Old West" / "out in the wilderness" feel to it while still feeling pretty big and "cosmopolitan" (by which I mean, for example, Cheyenne or Omaha don't have direct flights to Europe from their airports). I think the Stock Show is an important part of Denver's culture and identity, and part of what makes it Denver, and not just a "poor man's Los Angeles / New York / Chicago / etc.".

As for "the next SXSW": Denver already hosts some pretty big events that attract visitors from across the nation - Denver Comic Con / Fan Expo (highest attendance: 115,000), the Great American Beer Festival (highest attendance: 60,000), not to mention all the concerts at Red Rocks. I think the City could definitely start with those, and build from there. For example: San Diego Comic Con has attendance of about 167,000 and their venue isn't that much larger than the CCC. With a little effort, I think we could easily push DCC into SDCC numbers.

[Arapahoe]

Originally Posted by i4isoar

Re The Stock Show vs. SXSW

The Stock Show might not be SXSW, but you can count me firmly in the camp who's for it and I think whatever the City can do to continue to support it is absolutely worth it. After all, the Stock Show doesn't just benefit the City of Denver, but also the rest of the rest of the metro area, and the rest of the state as well.*

*(And I would agree, I think the Stock Show is important enough to the state as a whole that the state govt. should be doing more to support the project and doing whatever it can to help the City of Denver.)


As for "the next SXSW": Denver already hosts some pretty big events that attract visitors from across the nation - Denver Comic Con / Fan Expo (highest attendance: 115,000), the Great American Beer Festival (highest attendance: 60,000), not to mention all the concerts at Red Rocks. I think the City could definitely start with those, and build from there. For example: San Diego Comic Con has attendance of about 167,000 and their venue isn't that much larger than the CCC. With a little effort, I think we could easily push DCC into SDCC numbers.

Most of the jesting was in reference to TakeFive's allusion that building a new rodeo arena at NWC would make it suitable for hosting SXSW, which is a bit far fetched. Totally agree with you on CCC & Denver hosting large conferences.

I am voting for the new arena & restoration of the 1909 building. Lets keep the heritage alive. This is the only good argument that I've heard for the arena: if we don't make NWC a viable year-round attraction, we will probably lose NWSS due to maintenance costs and lack of revenue streams beyond the annual event.

[Curtis Park]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

[SIZE="3"]Speaking of biking and amenities that Denver is helping to fund

This is nice for the few people that use that route to commute and the weekend riders. But I wonder what they cost. $12M? For whatever they spent, I think it could have been used better to build out some high-use bike routes, like Broadway which seems to be a literal dead end. Millions of dollars is what's needed to get decent routes in Denver and I feel like these tunnels let Hancock say "Look at how we made it safe for cyclists!" But with relatively very few cyclists benefiting.

[Arapahoe]

Saw a crew surrounding the 3100 block of Brighton Blvd with construction fencing this morning. Ran a search and found they are going to be building a 12-story office building called "Steel House" according to Business Den.

Moving fast! Looks like demolition of the existing structures very soon.



The ePermit system gave it this description:
Proposed development includes a 12-story above grade office building with an approximate footprint area of 76,000 square feet. The lowest level of the 12-story building being used for parking, retail, and office space. A single level of below-grade parking garage will be included.

[SirLucasTheGreat]

Is 3100 Brighton really getting started? I seem to recall finding the permitting activity to be stalled. Maybe I was not looking at the right project

[Arapahoe]

Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat

Is 3100 Brighton really getting started? I seem to recall finding the permitting activity to be stalled. Maybe I was not looking at the right project

a bunch of demolition permits submitted in July are in progress after approved landmark demolition review, plus a new barrier fence that I mentioned previously.

I'd consider that "getting started" if not exactly breaking ground on the development.

[Ndj]

Dat podium is dummy thicc

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

This is where I'm confused- I thought that the only unfunded portions were the arena and the repurpose of the 1909 stadium. Everything else that is significant and is unfinished at this point was what was going in as part of the P3 in the Triangle such as Phase 4 – Trade Show/Exposition Hall (is it really necessary for the Stock Show portion given the size of the Livestock and Equestrian Centers?). The CSU facility was accelerated and will be fully built out which was a one of the phases and it's relocation seems to make Phase 7 redundant. What am I missing that was also cut from phases 1&2?

I'll message you on fb.

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by Arapahoe

Why do you think not having a new arena will kill the Stock Show? They filled the Coliseum with dirt and had a rodeo in there. That aint gonna to change. Construction continues on the new Stockyards Event Center. Scheduled for completion this summer, this 46,000-square-foot facility will debut at the 2022 Stock Show.

You talking out your ass again? (your terminology, not mine)

Why? Because the expectation has already been set that a new western center would be delivered to the Cattlemen. The annual economic impact of this two week show is in excess of $100 million. Assuming the City gets $5 mil/year in tax collections from it (seems low to me) that's a 40 year payback. In municipal terms, that's a helluvah investment. Just because some people like or don't like what the national western center offers doesn't mean the heritage and history aren't worth preserving and won't be buzzing with people. Very disappointed more folks don't see the significance of what this offers.

Between the CSU spur, the new arena, exhibit space and a public market, this area will be filled with people just like nearly ALL of Denver's other public spaces. When was the last time you visited a public space that wasn't packed?! We need MORE public spaces not less. I'll never understand why some people think more public space is bad or not worth their tax dollars. We're trying to become a world class city and can't do that without these types of things.

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by Arapahoe

Why do you think not having a new arena will kill the Stock Show? They filled the Coliseum with dirt and had a rodeo in there. That aint gonna to change...

It will change. They will go to Texas or Las Vegas. These ranchers aren't dummies and they're not lacking resources either. I'd compare them to an NFL team - they hold a significant economic grenade as leverage.

The Calgary Stampede generates 1 million guest visits annually and Denver does about 2/3 of that. Denver could legit hold a top three world's largest rodeo with this space not to mention first nations events, maybe cater to the larger cult classics coming out of C Springs, and SO MUHC MORE. I really don't think people have the vision of what the new national western center can provide, but it HAS TO HAVE the arena to do all of this. How would all of these events and economic/cultural drivers not be an awesome outcome for our local economy?

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Curtis Park

This is nice for the few people that use that route to commute and the weekend riders. But I wonder what they cost. $12M? For whatever they spent, I think it could have been used better to build out some high-use bike routes, like Broadway which seems to be a literal dead end. Millions of dollars is what's needed to get decent routes in Denver and I feel like these tunnels let Hancock say "Look at how we made it safe for cyclists!" But with relatively very few cyclists benefiting.

That's an interesting and fair question that I'm still trying to unpack.

I happen to be familiar with both parts of the trail at Hampden but at different points in time. In the 1970's I never cared about south of Hampden; I always rode east towards Bible Park and beyond. In the 2000's I used to walk the trail through Cherry Hills Village which is a beautiful and peaceful section of the trail.

In 2015 the High Line Canal Conservancy was created and I've been aware of their stewardship. They became the default caretaker/coordinator for the 71-mile trail that runs from Waterton Canyon in Douglas County to Green Valley Ranch in Northeast Denver. The canal itself and right-of-way is owned by Denver Water.

CDOT took primary responsibility; a NEPA was performed.

Project Cost: $5.4M, with $4.32M coming from Federal Sources and $1.08M coming from the City and County of Denver, Cherry Hills Village and Arapahoe County.

Originally Denver was only on the hook for $400,000. According to Denver website, the final cost for this project ended up at $7.2 million. By deduction I'll assume that the rest of the $12 million in costs are for the underpass at Parker Rd/Mississippi currently under construction. Not sure whether CDOT is involved, if any federal funding was secured for this project or not?

EDIT: Update

On the Mississippi/Parker underpass the original estimates were this:

Project Cost: $3.2M FASTER Funds, $1.75M from the City and County of Denver and $1.75M from Arapahoe County

So it looks like CDOT is covering not quite half the costs originally estimated at $6.7 million.

[Arapahoe]

Originally Posted by laniroj

Why? Because the expectation has already been set that a new western center would be delivered to the Cattlemen. The annual economic impact of this two week show is in excess of $100 million. Assuming the City gets $5 mil/year in tax collections from it (seems low to me) that's a 40 year payback. In municipal terms, that's a helluvah investment. Just because some people like or don't like what the national western center offers doesn't mean the heritage and history aren't worth preserving and won't be buzzing with people. Very disappointed more folks don't see the significance of what this offers.

Between the CSU spur, the new arena, exhibit space and a public market, this area will be filled with people just like nearly ALL of Denver's other public spaces. When was the last time you visited a public space that wasn't packed?! We need MORE public spaces not less. I'll never understand why some people think more public space is bad or not worth their tax dollars. We're trying to become a world class city and can't do that without these types of things.

i hear ya on the monetary side. Albeit the "public space" is fairly isolated. A low density neighborhood with the whole area surrounded by interstate and rail road tracks. Lets be real, not likely to get much foot traffic! The city's own study said the market would not be profitable.

That being said, all the new events would be a draw + CSU. I am voting for it, so kinda preaching to the choir now.

[TakeFive]

Whether parking at the Parks or barking at the Parks, Denver has you covered

In addition to the ongoing planning around Civic Center Park we have one more park in the works.

https://denvergov.org/Government/Agencie...lanning-Development/The-Outdoor-Downtown

The Outdoor Downtown is a 20-year master plan to provide the City of Denver with a visionary and actionable list of policies, programs, and projects that will make Downton's parks and public spaces world-class destinations.

Skyline Park Improvements

The Skyline Park Improvements project is underway! Denver’s Department of Parks and Recreation (DPR), in consultation with the Elevate Denver Bond Program and local stakeholders, is leading an effort to assess, reimagine and transform Skyline Park to once again become an iconic and vibrant civic park at the heart of downtown Denver.

This project will create a new vision for all three blocks of Skyline Park and develop a final design for construction of phase one improvements that are funded by the Elevate Denver Bond Program. In alignment with the Outdoor Downtown Plan, this plan will be driven by the foundational goals of a Social, Recreational, Connected, Cultural and Sustainable downtown.

Then there's the The Cultural Landscape Foundation


Skyline Park, Denver, CO - Photo by Susan Teare, 2019

.....
Skyline Park- Photos by Charles Birnbaum, 2001

Bottom Line: You can either get involved or howl at the moon.

[TakeFive]

With respect to the 2nd part of your question

Originally Posted by Curtis Park

This is nice for the few people that use that route to commute and the weekend riders. But I wonder what they cost. $12M? For whatever they spent, I think it could have been used better to build out some high-use bike routes, like Broadway which seems to be a literal dead end. Millions of dollars is what's needed to get decent routes in Denver and I feel like these tunnels let Hancock say "Look at how we made it safe for cyclists!" But with relatively very few cyclists benefiting.

progress which has been painfully slow continues with construction scheduled for 2022.

https://www.denvergov.org/Government/Age...ture/Programs-Services/Broadway-Mobility

Project Status: Spring 2021

The design process for the two-way protected bikeway will be complete in summer 2021, and pre-construction planning is expected to begin in late-2021 with construction anticipated to start in 2022. The bikeway will also provide other significant transportation and safety improvements for people walking, riding transit and driving on South Broadway from 7th Ave.

• Adding a raised concrete buffer and pedestrian refuge, which carves out a space for pedestrians to stop, if needed, before continuing to cross the street.
• Intersection safety, bus stop and accessibility improvements to shorten the crossing distance for people on foot and provide better connectivity to transit.
• New bike signals and rebuilding 13 traffic signals along the stretch with larger, more visible lights (red/yellow/green) as well as adding new pedestrian countdown signals to improve safety for people crossing the street on foot.
• Improvements to specific street trees and tree grates in areas impacted by construction.
• Public art to enhance the pedestrian experience along the corridor.

Rebuilding 13 traffic signals by itself is both expensive and time consuming but a year from now things should be happening fast - we hope.

Note: Funding is being provided by the Elevate Denver bond program

[Ich]

I noticed they were demolishing the warehouse on Ellsworth between Santa Fe and Kalamath. Anyone know what’s going there?

[The Dirt]

There's this - https://www.denvergov.org/content/dam/de...ons/50S.Kalamath_Reception2020051351.pdf

And here's the excerpt from their concept application (2019-CONCEPT-0000260):
Former Sports Authority Warehouse Large Development Review The Property currently consists of a 213,000 SF warehouse and two parking lots totaling 1.3 acres formerly occupied by Sports Authority and has sat vacant for nearly four years now. We are contemplating a mix of residential, retail and office uses. We are seeking to rezone the block to Industrial Mixed Used 5-Story (I-MX-5), see initial bubble plan attached. We intend to activate the street level with appropriate transparency and/or retail space. Parking would also be constructed on site in the form of one or more garages. All bike and pedestrian infrastructure, which is unusable on some portions of the Property, would be updated to current city standards.

[Ich]

Originally Posted by The Dirt

There's this - https://www.denvergov.org/content/dam/de...ons/50S.Kalamath_Reception2020051351.pdf

And here's the excerpt from their concept application (2019-CONCEPT-0000260):
Former Sports Authority Warehouse Large Development Review The Property currently consists of a 213,000 SF warehouse and two parking lots totaling 1.3 acres formerly occupied by Sports Authority and has sat vacant for nearly four years now. We are contemplating a mix of residential, retail and office uses. We are seeking to rezone the block to Industrial Mixed Used 5-Story (I-MX-5), see initial bubble plan attached. We intend to activate the street level with appropriate transparency and/or retail space. Parking would also be constructed on site in the form of one or more garages. All bike and pedestrian infrastructure, which is unusable on some portions of the Property, would be updated to current city standards.

Thanks for finding that. Based on that link, looks like it’s going to be an apartment building. Curious who the developer is

“ We are currently under contract with a multifamily developer whose concept plan shows approximately 471 units, or 91.37 units per acre. Their initial concept submittal includes a wrap style building including an above ground parking garage, wrapped by residential units. Current plans are to have approximately 0.62 acres of open green space on the southern end of the building, which is 12.05% of the parcel. The developer is a long-term holder of their assets. Additionally, the Owner is currently working with the City on an affordable housing agreement that will outline affordable housing requirements on this parcel.”

[HighRanch]

[QUOTE=Ich;9396344]Thanks for finding that. Based on that link, looks like it’s going to be an apartment building. Curious who the developer is

Westside Investment Partners purchased that property in Mid 2019.
https://www.westsideinv.com/our-portfolio?lightbox=dataItem-k7z19a9a

There were several articles on the 50 S. Kalamath location at the time of purchase.