Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[delts145]

Also agree. Maybe someday we could redevelop the bottom levels on some of those towers in much the same way we changed the old Beneficial Life/Key Bank Tower. I think the time is quickly approaching where the density feasibility will make it possible.

Great update on Reddit yesterday of the Harvest at Marmalade. Anyone up to speed on how to copy and paste those photos here. If not, please someone take some photos if your in that area.

[Reeder113]

Originally Posted by TMoneySLC

I kinda feel like I've elaborated my point pretty clearly?

I'm curious as to what your metric is for suggesting glazed frontage is more engaging than anything in the last half century?

I'm having a hard time understanding what it is that you're expecting. These are large/tall buildings with retail shops on the street level floor. Can you provide a reference of something you think fits your criteria?

[Reeder113]

Originally Posted by delts145

Also agree. Maybe someday we could redevelop the bottom levels on some of those towers in much the same way we changed the old Beneficial Life/Key Bank Tower. I think the time is quickly approaching where the density feasibility will make it possible.

Great update on Reddit yesterday of the Harvest at Marmalade. Anyone up to speed on how to copy and paste those photos here. If not, please someone take some photos if your in that area.

I can copy and paste them here, but I don't know how to reduce their size. They're huge.

[jedikermit]

Originally Posted by Blah_Amazing

This really isn't accurate. Basically all of them have ground floor retail.

All of these projects will have a tremendous impact on the pedestrian experience in the city.

(look at me not quoting the entire post )

I'm VERY happy to be wrong with this, Blah -- I was basing it on what we've seen so far along the 400 South corridor, some other recent construction. I'm glad they're putting more retail in, hopefully some of it will be subsidized/affordable enough that some local businesses can make it into those spaces.

[Atlas]

According to Reddit there's been activity at the Moda Luxe site recently.

Also, another update on the Astra for those that didn't see it:

Originally Posted by u/irondeepbicycle

The Astra lawsuit is likely wrapping up soon, and at this point I don't think it's much of an impediment. Kensington is arguing that the case is just moot at this point because the parking lot is gone. Pawn Shop argued (kind of hilariously IMO) that they technically could drive over the dirt patch to the 4 parking spaces so it's not moot (lawyers are great).

Pawn Shop could potentially try to claim monetary relief if the judge ruled that they had a prescriptive easement before but my guess is that they don't want that. Damages would have to be related to the harm they suffered and truthfully, losing access to 4 parking spaces doesn't really hurt them much.

Pawn Shop's gameplan, pretty clearly, is just to obtain a stay of construction, because they know a stay would be extremely costly to Kensington and would motivate a fast and lucrative settlement. That seems pretty unlikely at this point. There are dueling motions for summary judgment and discovery looks to be over, so I'd guess that this one is over soon.

[TMoneySLC]

When I explain what constitutes a meaningful pedestrian experience, that is not a whiny complaint as you put it.

To me the new just appears to be more of the same. Galzed, bland, uninspired frontages.

I also never suggested that the previous iterations were good or better by any stretch of the imagination. So please, don't assert that that was my position at all. I laid out several items which enhance the pedestrian experience. I'm sorry if you missed that in my earlier post. what I AM saying is that these new developments, are not as good as they can be and will create a monotony in terms of the pedestrian experience.

[TMoneySLC]

Originally Posted by Reeder113

I'm having a hard time understanding what it is that you're expecting. These are large/tall buildings with retail shops on the street level floor. Can you provide a reference of something you think fits your criteria?

I just feel that there is way too much similarity coming down the pike here in terms of street level engagement. At a certain point it just becomes more of the same and there is little variety. As I've stated, a variety of textures and lighting is key. What I'm seeing for ground floor retail coming in these developments are mainly glass windows with little difference between any of them.

I feel like this document from NACTO (Nat'l Assn. of City Transportation Officials) from 2013 will help illuminate my thinking a bit more clearly than I seem to be able to articulate.
https://nacto.org/docs/usdg/active_d...nce_nycdot.pdf

From pg 64, "the building wall: neighborhood main st
Often unique in character and varied in design, this typology is still typically defined by a strong street wall. Frequent entrances and medium transparency levels ensure
an engaging experience for the pedestrian. Awnings, signage, lighting, planters,stoops and architectural detailing are important in contributing to continuous variety."

What I'm seeing in these new developments lacks arch. detail. It is all rather plain. And to that end, does not enhance the pedestrian experience. When I reference the larges developments, it was merely for their attention to these details which enhance the experience. Just because you're on 1 acre does not mean you cannot make things interesting.

[Reeder113]

Originally Posted by TMoneySLC

I just feel that there is way too much similarity coming down the pike here in terms of street level engagement. At a certain point it just becomes more of the same and there is little variety. As I've stated, a variety of textures and lighting is key. What I'm seeing for ground floor retail coming in these developments are mainly glass windows with little difference between any of them.

I feel like this document from NACTO (Nat'l Assn. of City Transportation Officials) from 2013 will help illuminate my thinking a bit more clearly than I seem to be able to articulate.
https://nacto.org/docs/usdg/active_d...nce_nycdot.pdf

Hmmmm. I get what you're saying, but I think there is more texture to these shops than you're leading on. Take the Brineshore, for example. Here are some images that delts145 posted in the SLC City compilation page:












But that works on the Brineshore. If they were to try and add street-level retail shops to.....let's say.....95 S, it would probably look best to keep it all glass......sleek looking.

I think Mainstreet Disneyland, for example, is one of the most appealing and charming atmospheres when it comes to shopping and dining (pedestrian engagement):



......but that style of architecture would look ridiculous at the base of some of these larger, modern buildings in the middle of a big city.

I feel like you're expecting the "Main Street Disneyland" look in the heart of downtown.

[Atlas]

While there's definitely something to be said for aesthetics, I think just having active ground floor spaces is the most important aspect of having engaging streets. I'm very glad the majority of these new towers at least have something. We need quantity more than just quality, and the hope is that the sheer number of new residents will help create an environment where building quantity becomes more feasible.

Liberty Sky, again, is the ugly duckling with no street engagement. It's not even oriented to the street.

All that said, I do wish we could find a way to keep these small local businesses downtown. Replacing six small spaces with one big, more expensive space is certainly not ideal. I still hold out hope that whatever developer that replaces Ken Sanders' store with a big tower will build the old bookseller a new space in their new project. I think that having a respected local bookshop as a tenant could be a signature, distinguishing element of a project. That said, I don't know if SLC has the wherewithal to make something like that happen or even if Sanders would be open to such a thing.

[TMoneySLC]

Indeed! And I highlighted the Brinshore as an example of what we should be expecting more of.
But by no means Main Street USA.

[TMoneySLC]

I am of the opinion that there is no need to sacrifice quality just for the sake of quantity. A critical mass is crucial, I agree. However, if there is a willingness to overlook important details in this nascent rebirth, it will become harder to demand them further down the line. Quality and quantity are not mutually exclusive.

[RC14]

Here are a few minor photo updates from this morning.

Liberty Sky: it looks like the glass is currently being installed where that temporary lift is.


Astra: There is clearly work of some kind going on here. The gate is open, I have seen these trucks here on multiple ococcasions and earth has been moved.


Hyatt Regency:

[Reeder113]

Originally Posted by RC14

Hyatt Regency:

Great pics! Thanks!

Does anyone know if they're planning on putting balconies on the front of the CCH? In the concept art it's just flat, curved glass. But it looks like they've added doors to the front, which indicates a balcony? Unless those are closets or something?

[rockies]

While a lot of the towers are pretty bland (including their street engagement) it's definitely leaps ahead of what we have had. I think the bigger issue is that roads like state st, west temple, 400 s, etc. just suck to cross and walk near. If we had better streets and more mid-block connections it would probably sort itself out. Why blame projects/developers when city could take tons of steps to encourage more vibrance and better development but they choose not to.

[TMoneySLC]

Does anyone know if they're planning on putting balconies on the front of the CCH? In the concept art it's just flat, curved glass. But it looks like they've added doors to the front, which indicates a balcony? Unless those are closets or something?[/QUOTE]


I believe those are just the doors for the construction elevator if I'm not mistaken?

[TMoneySLC]

Originally Posted by rockies

While a lot of the towers are pretty bland (including their street engagement) it's definitely leaps ahead of what we have had. I think the bigger issue is that roads like state st, west temple, 400 s, etc. just suck to cross and walk near. If we had better streets and more mid-block connections it would probably sort itself out. Why blame projects/developers when city could take tons of steps to encourage more vibrance and better development but they choose not to.

Agree. It is a two part problem/solution. The hard part is, a lot of roads including 400 S and State are UDOT roads and their focus is on moving cars and not pedestrians... which is eternally frustrating. There is some hope for State St. however. The Life on State project is supposed to be getting underway soon, or so the rumor mill would have us believe. https://www.lifeonstate.com/

[i2theSKY]

Originally Posted by RC14

Hyatt Regency:

This is turning out to be a great looking tower! I like the different shades of glass being used in a vertical fashion. I think it helps break up the width and adds a sense of height. Fortunately their not going with "bold concrete" for the elevator shafts.

[Blah_Amazing]

https://citizenportal.slcgov.com/Cit...howInspection=

Location: 150 North 900 West

We now know what is replacing the Walgreens along the W North Temple corridor.

Basics
Three 6-floor, 60-65 ft. tall buildings with 397 residential units on 3.07 acre property. 164 1-bedroom, 140 2-bedroom, and 93 3-bedroom units. 409 parking stalls (199 stalls was min (so double min parking)) 1.03 parking stalls per unit. Additional 21 bike stalls. No retail space included, though could be converted in the future.

Project Description (from developer):
In partnership with Roers Companies, we propose construction of a 397‐Unit Multifamily Development at 150 North 900 W, Salt Lake City aimed at providing housing at a time of great need while engaging the urban neighborhood and becoming an integral piece of the city fabric. This 3.07‐
acre property is part of the TSA‐UN‐T zone and, is required to go through this TSA Development Score Review process. Currently, the lot uses include a closed Walgreens building, as well as a large area parking lot.

Proposed construction type is one level above grade of Type IA Construction
underneath a 3‐hour post‐tensioned concrete podium with 5 levels of IIIB (fire retardant treated wood-framed exterior walls) construction above. Our proposed building uses a mix of dark brick masonry and wood‐look cementitious plank siding system on the ground floor level and a mixture of gray brick masonry and durable cementitious panels and on the upper levels along with a wood‐look cementitious plank siding interlaced.

This project is designed to provide living spaces for the ever‐expanding area of Salt Lake City at a low cost but with a fresh and modern look. Ground level amenities including an easy access dog wash center, dog run, bike storage available to aid in the expanse of the growing need to lower greenhouse
gases, a versatile yoga and barre, co‐working/ study space for the residents, and an attractive, welcoming Lobby with easy access to mail/parcel lockers for tenants. Above the podium are two social courtyards, a golf simulator, pool/spa area, fitness room, and a large amenities space.

The main levels are designed to engage the dual street frontage with a combination of building amenity spaces and residential units. Since it is running along both 200 North and 900 West, we are providing the building with a modern feel while providing a community setting within the site.

The design also includes a parking area integrated into the main floor as well as an underground parking level (only on Building 3) to increase the road appeal and provide parking area while maximizing available tenant space.

The building is designed to give entry prominence to 900 West and 200 North both as well as provide a neighborhood aesthetic. We use material changes to help add differentiation to each portion of the buildings to give it depth and human scale.

The Type IIIB construction portion of the proposed building includes a mix of 1, 2, and 3 bed suites distributed between the three buildings (164 ‐ 1 bed/142 ‐ 2 bed /93 – 3 bed) bringing the unit total to 397. A complete breakdown of unit counts, and layouts, is found in the accompanying drawings.

Two sites are being combined for the project. The two sites were both used by the existing Walgreens with the site on the corner of 200 North and 900 West providing parking only.

This development site is part of the TSA‐UN‐T zone. The purpose of the Transit Station Area (TSA) zoning is to provide redevelopment, infill development, and increased development to underutilized parcels that will become a part of a walkable, Mixed‐Use District. The properties that are being combined and redeveloped under this proposal are currently underutilized parcels with an expansive surface parking area. This development replaces the parking lot and empty building with a multifamily residential (with a potential for future Mixed‐Use) structure with all parking fully enclosed within the site. The intent of the Urban Neighborhood Station (TSA‐UN) area type is to create an evolving and flexible development pattern. There is a goal to include multilevel buildings designed with the intent of creating an active, lively and safe streetscape. To accomplish this goal, we have designed the building to include a combination of uses on street level that encourage active use. This includes the main lobby for the development, in‐house fitness center, and co‐working spaces. The units on the Main Floor of the structures are designed for flexibility of use with the potential of conversion to retail or other commercial uses when the economic forces make these uses viable.

Project Renderings




Additional Renderings:

Project Elevations

Building 1 Elevations


Building 2 Elevations


Building 3 Elevations

Project Location


Landscape Plan


Existing Conditions

[bob rulz]

What's the point of transit-adjacent parking standards if developers can just double the minimum number at will?

[Makid]

One thing to remember with the facades for new towers, they are not structural. This means that as times change or as business dictates, the ground floor facade can be replaced with something more unique.

This would allow for different facades based on what the ground floor retail or restaurant or bar, etc. wanted as part of their overall branding. It could include bright pink and yellow ionic style pillars if so desired.

It is because of this that I am less worried about the ground floor facade and more focused on if retail, restaurant, bar, or other space is included in the plans.

Regarding the Walgreens replacement on 9th West, I think that this is a good project for the area. The inclusion of nearly 100 3 bedroom apartments is also good. We need to see more apartments being built with a higher percentage of 3 bedroom apartments. This will help families to stay in the City as it continues to grow.