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View Poll Results: Should Portage and Main be open for pedestrian traffic?
Yes 113 92.62%
No 9 7.38%
Voters: 122. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1101  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2023, 2:10 AM
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  #1102  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2023, 8:32 PM
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Great thread!
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  #1103  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2023, 8:42 PM
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Yeah, that is interesting. Thanks, bomberjet!
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  #1104  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2023, 2:21 PM
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We've had too P&M design contests over the years, with I think winners chosen from both. What ever happened to those?
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  #1105  
Old Posted May 3, 2023, 8:56 PM
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Open House at 201 Portage and at Scotiabank building coming up. Come voice your opinion in person!

https://201portage.com/portage-main-revitalization-information-sessions/
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  #1106  
Old Posted May 8, 2023, 2:01 PM
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Front Page of the Globe

Winnipeg rethinks iconic Portage and Main, but not the barriers
Rachel Ferstl

Winnipeggers are being given a chance to reimagine one of Canada’s most famous crossroads. At Portage and Main, citizens are being asked to consider designs for lookout towers, a circular “sky garden,” and a monument. They’ve been asked whether they want mobile food vendors, pop-up businesses, artwork or Indigenous programming.

What they won’t get to decide is whether they can finally walk across those streets.

Concrete barricades have closed the intersection to pedestrian traffic at street level since 1979, forcing people to cross through an underground concourse, another intersection a distance away, or to jaywalk.

The barricades are now set to come down and the intersection will be dug up because the waterproofing layer that protects the underground concourse and mall needs repair, the city announced last month. The city released the survey on the intersection’s future April 25 and it closes May 26.

But the city says the intersection will not be opening to pedestrian crossing at street level, and the barricades will be replaced.

“I have actually been scaling the barricades for decades,” said Gail Asper, chair of the Winnipegbased philanthropic organization the Asper Foundation. “I absolutely believe that those barricades should never have existed, and they should absolutely be taken down immediately.”

Ms. Asper has been working at 201 Portage Ave. for about 30 years. She said throughout that time, she has lobbied every city government to take down the barricades and let people cross.

“I’m so angry about this. This is the stupidest thing that we have to have this discussion,” she said.

“This should be a place where people drive slowly, admire the architecture, admire the shops, the restaurants, and in no way should the heart of the city be seen as a highway through to other destinations.”

The intersection is a fixture in the city. It marks the point at which two of Winnipeg’s main thoroughfares, Portage Avenue and Main Street, connect downtown. It’s where Winnipeggers cheered at the end of war, protested in the 1919 General Strike and celebrated the return of the city’s NHL team, the Winnipeg Jets.

“It’s really the heart of Winnipeg,” said Jeffrey Thorsteinson, volunteer historian and researcher at the Winnipeg Architecture Foundation. “It still holds kind of a deep place in the psychology of the city.”

In 2018, the city held a non-binding plebiscite and asked Winnipeggers whether they support the opening of Portage and Main. Sixty-five per cent of voters said no.

For city council finance chair Jeff Browaty, who opposed opening the intersection during the plebiscite, fully opening Portage and Main would mean more traffic on other downtown streets and higher Winnipeg Transit costs.

“To me it really comes down to the movements of vehicles through our downtown,” he said. “I really think a lot of the public is a little too fixated on the intersection itself.”

Mr. Browaty said he’d rather see the underground concourse be more accessible and have improved lighting and visibility at street level.

Adam Dooley, who led a committee that encouraged Winnipeggers to “vote open” in 2018, said many of those votes came from suburban voters, who don’t spend much time downtown. He said downtown businesses, business improvement zones and residents mostly voted yes.

“It’s really ridiculous that the suburban vote swamped that,” Mr. Dooley said.

Opening the intersection isn’t a radical idea, Mr. Dooley added. He said the designs proposed by the city don’t need to be complicated.

“Before we go for a sky garden, perhaps we should try a crosswalk,” he said.

City planning consultant and former chief planner for Vancouver Brent Toderian said the issue comes down to a lack of understanding about the importance of a downtown.

“The suburban vote doesn’t understand how the downtown is the economic engine of the city, how it benefits everyone in the city, whether you ever go downtown or not, and how cities critically need their downtowns to be successful,” he said.

“The machinations and knots that Winnipeg specifically, like no other city I’ve seen, will tie itself into to avoid the obvious answer is mind boggling.”

Around the 1970s, the city was eager to revitalize and modernize its downtown, according to Christian Cassidy, a local history blogger and board member of the Manitoba Historical Society. It was struggling financially and losing residents to suburban sprawl.

So, when the developing company Trizec Corp. offered to build two office towers, a hotel, a five-storey bank, and an underground mall at Winnipeg’s main intersection, the city couldn’t refuse.

But the corporation had a few conditions. One of them was that the city would have to agree to close the intersection to pedestrians, which would, in theory, bring more foot traffic into the underground mall, Mr. Cassidy said.

In the end, all that was built was one tower, the underground concourse and a parkade at a cost of about $80-million, split between the city and Trizec, Mr. Cassidy said. The city held up part of its deal and closed the intersection to pedestrians.

Today, one of the main arguments about keeping the intersection closed is traffic congestion, Mr. Cassidy said.

“There’s a very strong desire amongst people that you need to keep it closed because it’ll be mayhem if you open up the intersection,” he said.

But for others like Brent Bellamy, a Winnipeg columnist and architect, reopening the intersection can’t happen soon enough.

“We take it over when we’re celebrating or mourning or protesting,” he said. “It has been a critical intersection since the beginning of time, really, and it would be great to see that come back.”
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  #1107  
Old Posted May 8, 2023, 2:40 PM
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This article says it all. SO gut-wrenching that stupidity continues to reign abut P & M. I think every stupid urban decision in Winnipeg should henceforth be called a "Browaty".
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  #1108  
Old Posted May 8, 2023, 11:43 PM
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^Dude! Yea that.

The Browaty

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  #1109  
Old Posted May 8, 2023, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by pspeid View Post
This article says it all. SO gut-wrenching that stupidity continues to reign abut P & M. I think every stupid urban decision in Winnipeg should henceforth be called a "Browaty".
Suburban councillors, suburbanites should have less say than the people living and or working in the area. Always a laughable yet trying nightmare for tourists and others. Only in Winnipeg do you not celebrate the most iconic intersection and wonder why the rest of downtown is a mess.
In New York, with more than 12 x our population, imagine them doing something so asinine & anti business like closing their busiest intersection.
If you want a freeway, build it in the burbs.Find an alternate route, If you do not like the traffic downtown.The suburbanites are not shopping there anyways
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  #1110  
Old Posted May 9, 2023, 3:35 AM
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Let's keep it simple and open the goddam intersection once and for all.

I don't want no caveats, I don't want no extra fluff with it, as long as the necessary repairs and upgrades are NEEDED. Sky Gardens, and elevated walkways are nothing more than gimmicks, no matter which side you're on about this, and detractors of this idea has already been given ammo to shoot down any idea of opening this intersection with the current proposals, as well as past proposals.

Don't make me win the lottery and blow all my winnings out by buying Imrie demolition to completely take down the barriers myself.
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  #1111  
Old Posted May 9, 2023, 2:41 PM
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The Free Press online has an article today titled "Vote on Studying Portage & Main Reopening Postponed Until Fall". I don't subscribe so I couldn't get past the paywall. Anyone have a chance to read this? From the title it sounds like some "uncharacteristic" dithering about P & M from city hall, but I could be wrong.

When oh when will this tragedy end??
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  #1112  
Old Posted May 9, 2023, 3:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pspeid View Post
The Free Press online has an article today titled "Vote on Studying Portage & Main Reopening Postponed Until Fall". I don't subscribe so I couldn't get past the paywall. Anyone have a chance to read this? From the title it sounds like some "uncharacteristic" dithering about P & M from city hall, but I could be wrong.

When oh when will this tragedy end??

Quote:

Vote on studying Portage & Main reopening postponed until fall

The City of Winnipeg won’t explore the impact of opening a street-level pedestrian crossing at Portage Avenue and Main Street just yet.

On Monday, council’s public works committee postponed a vote until October on ordering city staff to study the option.

Coun. Janice Lukes, the committee’s chairwoman, said she believes council should wait until public consultation is completed on a consultant’s recently released options to revamp the intersection, which propose everything from basic pavement enhancements to a sixth-floor-level circular walkway.

“Right now, we’ve got this public consultation going on. We don’t want to cloud the waters,” said Lukes.

While the consultant’s ideas don’t include an option to reopen Winnipeg’s most famous intersection to surface-level pedestrian traffic, Lukes said she expects many people who support that change will share their views.

Lukes said she expects foot traffic will one day be allowed at street level and she is personally open to the idea.

Coun. Sherri Rollins, who raised the motion to study that option now, noted a street-level crossing is notably absent from the “fanciful” designs the city is seeking public feedback on.

“We don’t have the basics of costs and impacts for the option of opening up the intersection and that seems to me, through the course of time, to be a big omission that I’d like you to fix today,” Rollins told the public works committee.

She suggested the new study should offer details on construction requirements, accessibility improvements, navigation, traffic impact, cost and other aspects of street-level access.

Rollins, whose ward stretches close to Portage and Main but doesn’t include the intersection, said downtown residents deserve to have easy access to cross the street near their homes, as many folks in other parts of the city do.
https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breaki...tage-main-reopening-postponed-until-fall
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  #1113  
Old Posted May 9, 2023, 6:52 PM
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Thanks for posting that. I don't want to get TOO enthusiastic at this point, but it ALMOST sounds like our spineless, weak-willed, ineffectual, irresolute, timorous, faint-hearted, pusillanimous, craven, wimpish, all-wet city council MIGHT be looking for a way to open the blasted intersection?

Yeah, I'm probably reading too much into it right now, but I can't help wonder if the article from the Globe & Mail that exposed the foolish, dull, vacant, absurd, idiotic thought processes of the city council to the country might have actually shamed them into actually standing up to Browaty and doing what's best for the downtown and the city?

Wishful thinking, delusion, fantasy, sophistry on my part?
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  #1114  
Old Posted May 9, 2023, 6:58 PM
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All of the mockups in the public engagement survey still have the intersection "closed" but way easier to open up in the future than the current barriers. Seems like whoever is in charge of that study thinks opening the intersection will happen.
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  #1115  
Old Posted May 9, 2023, 8:10 PM
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i played Frogger today to get to Lombard instead of walking down a block, almost got squished.

reminder open house 201 Portage tomorrow 11-2, come remind them you want it Open!
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  #1116  
Old Posted May 10, 2023, 12:57 PM
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Gail Asper wants the barricades down! She makes some very very valid points

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/portage-and-main-pedestrian-debate-1.6837828
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  #1117  
Old Posted May 10, 2023, 4:42 PM
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Great article on why we should not be spending money on widening Kenaston that has been making the rounds also has a section on the ROI of opening Portage & Main.

https://www.dearwinnipeg.com/2023/05/09/the-road-expansion-lobby-doesnt-want-you-to-read-this/

Quote:
Just as a reference, in 2017, a year before there was even talk of a plebiscite, the analytics firm State of Place did a study on the economic return of opening Portage and Main to pedestrians. At the time, their findings were that an investment of $7 million in various improvements to the intersection and surrounding blocks would yield economic returns of $126 million over 10 years, an $18 return on every dollar invested. That’s already $1 million better than the $125 million in returns predicted for the Kenaston widening, but at fraction of the cost, and in half the time, making it 345x more economically productive than adding lanes to Kenaston.
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  #1118  
Old Posted May 10, 2023, 4:53 PM
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^ I'm all for opening P&M but this talk of massive economic returns seems extremely fanciful. $126 million... really.

Route 90 through River Heights is an absolute shambles so even if you don't change anything about it, just the replacements of the road surface, the southbound St. James Bridge and the new access points will probably cost a fortune on their own. And those aren't really optional expenses.
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  #1119  
Old Posted May 10, 2023, 4:59 PM
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^ I'm all for opening P&M but this talk of massive economic returns seems extremely fanciful. $126 million... really.

Route 90 through River Heights is an absolute shambles so even if you don't change anything about it, just the replacements of the road surface, the southbound St. James Bridge and the new access points will probably cost a fortune on their own. And those aren't really optional expenses.
Considering the cost of residential buildings these days if Portage and Main opens and hypothetically in the next decade we get $126 million worth of buildings then it would be true. I mean 300 Main was like a $165 million economic return to P&M technically.
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  #1120  
Old Posted May 10, 2023, 5:10 PM
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^ If one wanted to play devil's advocate they could say we got that investment without having to spend a dime on P&M. The state of P&M was immaterial in that case.
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