PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[Jslader]

Originally Posted by Outta here

Is there a plan to dredge the Delaware up past the Betsey Ross ?? Just a rumor I heard .

Ships that could use a deepened channel cannot get past the Ben Franklin, so it probably is just a rumor.

[Jslader]

I think a KOP expansion would help open up a job market to many that right now cannot reach that job market. Such projects aren't just to promote people commuting into the city. ...

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by Jelly Roll

Mount Laurel/ Moorsetown is the bigger market then Cherry Hill in South Jersey and has lower vacancy and higher rents then Cherry Hill. I would not be surprised if the PA suburbs gained because South Jersey has shrunk and Philadelphia has not materially changed yet.

1. That's what Δn is for, to put your own market in, you know.

2. I generally lump the KoP and Chesterbrook job markets together in my mind, and likewise the Cherry Hill and Moorestown/Mount Laurel ones. But feel free to make your own definitions, as long as you keep them consistent. The measurement is about change, after all. Heck, if you define U as the set of all job markets in the metro, you could define your terms as as Δk/Δ(U\k), where the set {U\k} is the complement to King of Prussia's job market...If you want to get increasingly fancy about it...

OMFG I'm turning into a math geek Is there any self-help or forum for that???

[summersm343]

New 8 story building for Delaware Waterfront. 510 N. Delaware Ave:



http://blog.philadelphiarealestate.com/d...fference-delaware-riverfront/#more-19767

[Outta here]

Originally Posted by PhiLaw

I wonder how close to BLT Architects' previous plans the new tower(s) will be.

Good Super Bowl Sunday to you .
Trying to find some info on the towers you posted a model of at Post 1057 . Checked " diagrams and data base " along with cursory look at BLT web page and can find no info for said towers . Is this model under lock and key along with any pertinent information , i.e. final model design , height , ground breaking or tenants for said tower / towers ??
If this and something similar to Market 8 were to become reality , wow . Both for potential jobs and tax revenue , not to mention , great additions to the skyline .
But of course I realize you already know that . PS; Can you steer me in the right direction with regard to this project .

[hammersklavier]

That is a very old model that was quite dead at least a score years ago, which is why there's no information on it. The main reason it's dragged out from time to time is because it shows where the Gallery overbuilds would have to be.

(Of interest, most people, when they talk about Gallery overbuild, talk about the Gallery II twin towers. But this model implies that there's a third overbuild option on Gallery I, right next to Strawbridge's. To give you an idea of the age of this thing, those blue massings in the lower right corner are on the Market8 site.)

[Aaamazarite]

Originally Posted by Outta here

Good Super Bowl Sunday to you .
Trying to find some info on the towers you posted a model of at Post 1057 . Checked " diagrams and data base " along with cursory look at BLT web page and can find no info for said towers . Is this model under lock and key along with any pertinent information , i.e. final model design , height , ground breaking or tenants for said tower / towers ??
If this and something similar to Market 8 were to become reality , wow . Both for potential jobs and tax revenue , not to mention , great additions to the skyline .
But of course I realize you already know that . PS; Can you steer me in the right direction with regard to this project .

I can shed some light on this--

Tower at 13th and Market in that model:

http://citypaper.net/article.php?PHILAPH...f-the-Week-Philadelphia-CityCenter-17259

tower at 8th and Market in that model:

http://citypaper.net/article.php?PHILAPH...e-Week-Corestates-Financial-Center-11126

[mmikeyphilly]

So, according to the article posted in the CityPaper above, the lot at 8th & Market has a 5 year zoning allowance for parking until the year 2017? Does this mean that the Market8 proposal would have to face a lot of red tape with City Council? Or am I missing something? There had to be some kind of revisal in the zoning variance to even consider this site for proposals?

[Outta here]

Great find . Thanks to both you and Hammer for your informative response .

[tsarstruck]

Originally Posted by mmikeyphilly

So, according to the article posted in the CityPaper above, the lot at 8th & Market has a 5 year zoning allowance for parking until the year 2017? Does this mean that the Market8 proposal would have to face a lot of red tape with City Council? Or am I missing something? There had to be some kind of revisal in the zoning variance to even consider this site for proposals?

It's permission for a parking lot, not a mandate for one. They can build whatever the zoning district allows there by right.

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by mmikeyphilly

So, according to the article posted in the CityPaper above, the lot at 8th & Market has a 5 year zoning allowance for parking until the year 2017? Does this mean that the Market8 proposal would have to face a lot of red tape with City Council? Or am I missing something? There had to be some kind of revisal in the zoning variance to even consider this site for proposals?

If the Market 8 proposal is not chosen, what are the chances that the zoning allowance for parking is not renewed? Could the city force Goldenberg to develop the land anyway by denying them the ability to use the lot as a parking lot?

While I could see Market8 suceeding, at this point in the game it seems like an unnecessary risk. Maybe in the 90s it would make sense to swing for the fences here, but at this point the amount of momentum in every other part of Center City is undeniable. I have a hard time foreseeing a Market East that doesn't naturally redevelop due to demand over the next 20 years. Market8 could really speed up that process and could be a huge success, but I can't help but think of Revel and see the very possible scenario of it being a huge failure and a blighting presence that could stall development in the area for decades.

[philatonian]

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

That is a very old model that was quite dead at least a score years ago, which is why there's no information on it. The main reason it's dragged out from time to time is because it shows where the Gallery overbuilds would have to be.

(Of interest, most people, when they talk about Gallery overbuild, talk about the Gallery II twin towers. But this model implies that there's a third overbuild option on Gallery I, right next to Strawbridge's. To give you an idea of the age of this thing, those blue massings in the lower right corner are on the Market8 site.)

I also notice a highrise on the surface parking lot behind the Marriott Residence Inn, on 13th and Market.

[PhiLaw]

Originally Posted by allovertown

If the Market 8 proposal is not chosen, what are the chances that the zoning allowance for parking is not renewed? Could the city force Goldenberg to develop the land anyway by denying them the ability to use the lot as a parking lot?

While I could see Market8 suceeding, at this point in the game it seems like an unnecessary risk. Maybe in the 90s it would make sense to swing for the fences here, but at this point the amount of momentum in every other part of Center City is undeniable. I have a hard time foreseeing a Market East that doesn't naturally redevelop due to demand over the next 20 years. Market8 could really speed up that process and could be a huge success, but I can't help but think of Revel and see the very possible scenario of it being a huge failure and a blighting presence that could stall development in the area for decades.

I understand your apprehension, but remember Revel must be analyzed in conjunction to its location in Atlantic City. Atlantic City was saturated with casinos (with revenue falling) when it was built - there was no overall lack of aggregate demand in the entire region. State legalization of gambling obliterated Atlantic City's effective monopoly, and the existing saturation no longer comported with this new competition.

I'm not saying this won't happen to Market8, but it is a different geographic market (day trippers, conventioners, city dwellers and suburbanites who wouldn't otherwise go to AC, etc.)

My personal opinion is that for this to work, there can be no temporal stages (like Sugarhouse). Market8 would have to open up with a bang, and with class and scale for this to work. Incremental improvements will allow a bad reputation to be imputed on it at Stage I.

[Lincolndrive]

Posted some updates just now at http://buildingphilly.com

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by philatonian

I also notice a highrise on the surface parking lot behind the Marriott Residence Inn, on 13th and Market.

Yup--

Originally Posted by Aaamazarite

I can shed some light on this--

Tower at 13th and Market in that model:

http://citypaper.net/article.php?PHILAPH...f-the-Week-Philadelphia-CityCenter-17259

tower at 8th and Market in that model:

http://citypaper.net/article.php?PHILAPH...e-Week-Corestates-Financial-Center-11126

[Outta here]

I know I have more questions than answers , but has anyone noticed , a proposed
building in Pittsburgh called the " Monagahela Tower " bearing a striking resemblance to
Cira Center ?? Is it the same architect or just a rare coincidence .

[theSisko]

Originally Posted by Outta here

I know I have more questions than answers , but has anyone noticed , a proposed
building in Pittsburgh called the " Monagahela Tower " bearing a striking resemblance to
Cira Center ?? Is it the same architect or just a rare coincidence .

A coincidence. Cira Centre was designed by Cesar Pelli. Monagahela tower is designed by Burns & Scalo, GBNN. It does look similar though.

[relnahe]

Originally Posted by Outta here

I know I have more questions than answers , but has anyone noticed , a proposed
building in Pittsburgh called the " Monagahela Tower " bearing a striking resemblance to
Cira Center ?? Is it the same architect or just a rare coincidence .

Just looked at the renderings for the building. Looks like a 3rd rate, boxy Cira Center clone

[mmikeyphilly]

Originally Posted by relnahe

Just looked at the renderings for the building. Looks like a 3rd rate, boxy Cira Center clone

Curiosity got the best of me, I just had to check out. Truthfully, it does resemble the angles of Cire quite a bit. I can see where it will be compared many, many times again! Actually, Monagahela Tower added outdoor spaces near top and center height of the building. It kind of reminds me of the proposal for Motel8, I mean Market 8 project here. (I hate the name of that project, Market 8, com'on)

[Baconboy007]

Hey folks, in case anyone is interested WHYY has a show starting tomorrow night at 10 pm called Super Skyscrapers. It's listed as season 1 episode 1, i'm not sure how many episodes there will be but thought you guys might want to check it out. Tomorrows episode is about NYC's One World Trade Center. WHYY is channel 12.1 if you use OTA, not sure about Comcast or Verizon. For those not in Philly WHYY is the local PBS channel so check your local listings. If you're having trouble finding it just ask your wife/gf what channel Downton Abbey is on.