Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[lrt's friend]

Conservative leader Tim Hudak says the province is "out of money" and he cannot promise to fund 1/3 of Mayor Jim Watson's $3 billion Phase 2 of Light Rail over the next ten years. Former Liberal Prime Minister Paul Martin says the job cuts to the provincial public sector promised by Hudak won't help eliminate Ontario's $12.5 billion budget deficit, it will just drive the province deeper into the hole. NDP leader Andrea Horwath rolled out her economic plan. It calls for a 1% hike in corporate taxes but reduces the tax rate on small businesses.

http://www.cfra.com/madelys-top-5/2014/05/23/madelys-morning-minute---may-23

Number 1 story on CFRA this morning.

When I heard the announcement that Hudak would continue funding on the Confederation Line, it is what he didn't say that was most important. That he would fund Phase 2. Phase 1 is too advanced to cancel but if hadn't been as far advanced, it could have been the next Eglinton subway that Harris filled in the 90s. Anyways, we now see that Phase 2 is in great jeopardy. What I am surprised about is how frank Hudak is being about it. I guess not enough Ottawans understand the magnitude of not completing Phase 2 in a timely manner and therefore Hudak believes that he will not lose many votes by making this statement especially in more Conservative west end Ottawa.

Of course, what we will be left with is a stubway that does not effectively serve the west or south ends of the city. And with Ontario politics tending to give 10 year mandates, we could potentially delay Phase 2 until the 2030s.

Ottawa and Ontario continues to bumble along with Ottawa's LRT project while Calgary continues to move forward with plans for two more LRT lines, extensions and a downtown subway. I looked at the history of the C-Train and Phase 2 (the Northeast line and the beginning of the Northwest line) opened just 6 years after Phase 1 opened. We continue to fall further and further behind a comparable city. We started out 25 to 30 years behind Calgary and soon we could be 50 years behind Calgary.

What does this say about Ottawa and our future?

But you know, the Conservatives will likely spend just as much money but mostly on roads. That was the track record of Mike Harris and with plans for a new Niagara highway, this is what we will get from Hudak (who was always a disciple of Harris)

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

What does this say about Ottawa and our future?

What everything always says: that Ottawans are collectively a bunch of short-sighted cheapskates whose lowest common denominator loves being pandered to.

If Hudak wins a majority, it will be in part because of the three west-end suburban seats who will in effect be voting to kill the LRT project that would service their communities... same way they voted for that moron John Baird who hit the "reset" button on the federal end nearly a decade ago.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

What everything always says: that Ottawans are collectively a bunch of short-sighted cheapskates whose lowest common denominator loves being pandered to.

If Hudak wins a majority, it will be in part because of the three west-end suburban seats who will in effect be voting to kill the LRT project that would service their communities... same way they voted for that moron John Baird who hit the "reset" button on the federal end nearly a decade ago.

Exactly, another vote for pressing the Reset button.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

http://www.cfra.com/madelys-top-5/2014/05/23/madelys-morning-minute---may-23

Number 1 story on CFRA this morning.

When I heard the announcement that Hudak would continue funding on the Confederation Line, it is what he didn't say that was most important. That he would fund Phase 2. Phase 1 is too advanced to cancel but if hadn't been as far advanced, it could have been the next Eglinton subway that Harris filled in the 90s. Anyways, we now see that Phase 2 is in great jeopardy. What I am surprised about is how frank Hudak is being about it. I guess not enough Ottawans understand the magnitude of not completing Phase 2 in a timely manner and therefore Hudak believes that he will not lose many votes by making this statement especially in more Conservative west end Ottawa.

Of course, what we will be left with is a stubway that does not effectively serve the west or south ends of the city. And with Ontario politics tending to give 10 year mandates, we could potentially delay Phase 2 until the 2030s.

Ottawa and Ontario continues to bumble along with Ottawa's LRT project while Calgary continues to move forward with plans for two more LRT lines, extensions and a downtown subway. I looked at the history of the C-Train and Phase 2 (the Northeast line and the beginning of the Northwest line) opened just 6 years after Phase 1 opened. We continue to fall further and further behind a comparable city. We started out 25 to 30 years behind Calgary and soon we could be 50 years behind Calgary.

What does this say about Ottawa and our future?

But you know, the Conservatives will likely spend just as much money but mostly on roads. That was the track record of Mike Harris and with plans for a new Niagara highway, this is what we will get from Hudak (who was always a disciple of Harris)

Woah, calm down. Ottawa is doing just fine with planning LRT extensions, what with a massive second phase planned to start construction immediately after the first. Not even Calgary did that well. It's not our fault in any way if the feds & province don't play along. It says nothing bad about Ottawa, only bad things about Ontario, and more specifically the Ontario PCs.

In any case, Hudak is unlikely to win a government; polls are showing another Liberal government, Forum is even predicting a Liberal majority. Liberals will give us our LRT money. Even if Hudak does win, he can't implement any of his budget as he'll have a minority (PC majority is WAY out of the question).

This was a big mistake for Hudak. As you said, a lot of Ottawans aren't going to be that upset about LRT per-se (although a good number will be), it's the optics of it wrt his Toronto transit policies. Hudak has just put himself in a position of promising lots of new subways for Toronto, and zilch for Ottawa. Liberals will use that as violent ammo. I can practically hear Kathleen Wynne's voice on the radio now, saying "Hudak wants to take money out of Ottawa to benefit Toronto."

[J.OT13]

Conservative leader Tim Hudak says the province is "out of money" and he cannot promise to fund 1/3 of Mayor Jim Watson's $3 billion Phase 2 of Light Rail over the next ten years. Former Liberal Prime Minister Paul Martin says the job cuts to the provincial public sector promised by Hudak won't help eliminate Ontario's $12.5 billion budget deficit, it will just drive the province deeper into the hole. NDP leader Andrea Horwath rolled out her economic plan. It calls for a 1% hike in corporate taxes but reduces the tax rate on small businesses.

Never been so insulted in my life! We have billions upon billions for TO, but not a cent for Ottawa!? Are you Freakin' kidding me!!!

lrt's friend, I agree 100%; without Stage 2, the Confederation Line is just a stump making everyone's lives a pain in the ass by forcing transfers for a super short train ride.

If Hudak gets in, I'm gonna be pissed!

Once again, I have to vote for the best of a bad situation: the Liberals (and I live in West Carleton, so Liberals need as many votes as possible).

[lrt's friend]

Randall Denley is going to be on CFRA this afternoon. After being a very vocal oponent of the first plan, I am interested in his comments (likely supporting Hudak on the funding comment about Phase 2) about why he would not fully support the alternative plan that will run through the centre of his riding.

[lrt's friend]

Once again, I have to vote for the best of a bad situation: the Liberals (and I live in West Carleton, so Liberals need as many votes as possible).

I am in the same boat. I am not enamoured by what the Liberals have done in the last mandate but I am looking for a reasonably progressive alternative. I don't feel the NDP is a realistic alternative. Hudak's conservatives are too extreme for me with his plans to lay off 100,000 employees (through attrition or whatever) because the affects on provincial and municipal services are going to be dire. Inevitably, transit service will be cut, as well as schools and hospitals. This is the same rhetoric as Larry O'Brien when he was going to cut with affecting services until reality set in. Yet, will the elimination of separate school boards be considered? This should be publically announced in the campaign if that is the intent. This is where real savings are possible without jeopardizing service to any degree.

I long for the days of Bill Davis' truly 'progressive' conservatives.

Where is a government that will be fiscally responsible while understanding that public infrastructure investment will also create real jobs. Tax cuts can only be done so often before the cupboard is absolutely bare. And then what? How do you maintain public infrastructure and services? User fees?

[MalcolmTucker]

Promising stage 2 at this point is a bit folly. There really isn't much point funding a project that won't start in the next mandate. Saying yes isn't any more meaningful than saying no.

[eltodesukane]

"the province is "out of money" and he cannot promise to fund..."
Infrastructure spending should be seen as a productive investment, not as a money drain.
Borrow all the money you need to build needed infrastructures.
Do it now so we can profit from it as soon as possible.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Promising stage 2 at this point is a bit folly. There really isn't much point funding a project that won't start in the next mandate. Saying yes isn't any more meaningful than saying no.

True, but then why comment in the manner described? It could have been put in a positive manner, like, "we will look at the possibility of funding when the studies and estimates are completed". The comment made was clearly negative.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Exactly, another vote for pressing the Reset button.

It's the only button on that rig, apparently.

[MalcolmTucker]

^ Because Ontario's budget is in a real pickle. No one wants to raise taxes but Ontario's spending is already the lowest per capital among provinces, with a possibly structural deficit (the deficit would stick around even if the economy was growing well for a few years). When you're selling austerity, you can't promise things for just around the corner, it destroys your narrative.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Promising stage 2 at this point is a bit folly. There really isn't much point funding a project that won't start in the next mandate. Saying yes isn't any more meaningful than saying no.

Because Ontario's budget is in a real pickle. No one wants to raise taxes but Ontario's spending is already the lowest per capital among provinces, with a possibly structural deficit (the deficit would stick around even if the economy was growing well for a few years). When you're selling austerity, you can't promise things for just around the corner, it destroys your narrative.

Construction for Stage 2 is suppose to start in 4 years, tops. Money is usually on the table years before the start of construction (3 years before in the case of phase 1 http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ontario-offers-600m-for-ottawa-light-rail-1.798676). So this is the time to promise that money.

I understand that when money's tight, you have to tighten the belt, which is why I wasn't planning on voting Liberal a few weeks ago but. But now, Hudak's plan is for the province to plan, study and build brand new subway lines for Toronto, the whole process 100% funded by Queen's park, while ignoring the rest of Ontario's transit needs.

If money has to be spent, better vote for the Party who will split the money fairly.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

I find it odd that the PC's are trying to sell austerity, when a quick look at Europe reveals that's a pretty bad idea.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Construction for Stage 2 is suppose to start in 4 years, tops. Money is usually on the table years before the start of construction (3 years before in the case of phase 1 http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ontario-offers-600m-for-ottawa-light-rail-1.798676). So this is the time to promise that money.

I understand that when money's tight, you have to tighten the belt, which is why I wasn't planning on voting Liberal a few weeks ago but. But now, Hudak's plan is for the province to plan, study and build brand new subway lines for Toronto, the whole process 100% funded by Queen's park, while ignoring the rest of Ontario's transit needs.

If money has to be spent, better vote for the Party who will split the money fairly.

Sounds like you have a case of the sposdas. Seriously, the Confederation Line is a massively expensive project. Following on immediately with another and expecting full senior government buy in, especially federal buy in, is a recipe for disappointment.

Until a contribution agreement is signed don't hold your breath!

[J.OT13]

May 23, 2014
Did you know?

IconDid you know that the mining of a station cavern is different than the running tunnel?

A gradual widening of the tunnel face between the running tunnel and the station cavern is needed to support the area necessary for the underground platforms and stations. Once the transition area is mined, the cavern is separated into “drifts” which are excavated in a sequence (see example below).

Design engineers consider ground conditions and adjacent structures before recommending the sequence of construction and tunnel support.

In the construction of Lyon and Parliament stations, two different types of support systems will be used. When adjacent structures or buildings have shallow foundations a top heading support system supported by excavated haunch will be used. This zone of the cavern will be excavated from top to bottom. When adjacent structures or buildings have deep foundations a top heading system supported by concrete walls and traverse cross-members will be used. This zone of the cavern will be excavated from bottom to top.

Micropile umbrellas, lattice girders and shotcrete will be used to reinforce the cavern.

Lyon Station Cavern excavation began mid-April, and Parliament Station Cavern excavation will begin this month. Excavation is scheduled to continue until fall 2015 in both caverns.

Construction of the stations is anticipated to start in spring 2016 for Parliament Station and in summer 2016 for Lyon Station.

http://www.confederationline.ca/en

[SF Thomas]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Woah, calm down. Ottawa is doing just fine with planning LRT extensions, what with a massive second phase planned to start construction immediately after the first. Not even Calgary did that well. It's not our fault in any way if the feds & province don't play along. It says nothing bad about Ottawa, only bad things about Ontario, and more specifically the Ontario PCs.

In any case, Hudak is unlikely to win a government; polls are showing another Liberal government, Forum is even predicting a Liberal majority. Liberals will give us our LRT money. Even if Hudak does win, he can't implement any of his budget as he'll have a minority (PC majority is WAY out of the question).

This was a big mistake for Hudak. As you said, a lot of Ottawans aren't going to be that upset about LRT per-se (although a good number will be), it's the optics of it wrt his Toronto transit policies. Hudak has just put himself in a position of promising lots of new subways for Toronto, and zilch for Ottawa. Liberals will use that as violent ammo. I can practically hear Kathleen Wynne's voice on the radio now, saying "Hudak wants to take money out of Ottawa to benefit Toronto."

Here is hoping for three more weeks. Hudak also said he would cancel planned LRTs in Hamilton and Mississauga as well http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario_elec...r_ttc_mississauga_brampton_hamilton.html.

I'd be happy if the budget were balanced sooner and could personally live with a corporate tax hike or even a provincial sales tax hike. Still there is a lot of infrastructure repair and improvement that needs to get done in this province and we really can't afford to wait. Some infrastructure needs repairs ASAP and in many cases letting the issues sit longer will just cause more problems (particularly with transit since commute times and gridlock will just get worse).

[Mr.Flintstone]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

http://www.cfra.com/madelys-top-5/2014/05/23/madelys-morning-minute---may-23

Number 1 story on CFRA this morning.

When I heard the announcement that Hudak would continue funding on the Confederation Line, it is what he didn't say that was most important. That he would fund Phase 2. Phase 1 is too advanced to cancel but if hadn't been as far advanced, it could have been the next Eglinton subway that Harris filled in the 90s. Anyways, we now see that Phase 2 is in great jeopardy. What I am surprised about is how frank Hudak is being about it. I guess not enough Ottawans understand the magnitude of not completing Phase 2 in a timely manner and therefore Hudak believes that he will not lose many votes by making this statement especially in more Conservative west end Ottawa.

Of course, what we will be left with is a stubway that does not effectively serve the west or south ends of the city. And with Ontario politics tending to give 10 year mandates, we could potentially delay Phase 2 until the 2030s.

Ottawa and Ontario continues to bumble along with Ottawa's LRT project while Calgary continues to move forward with plans for two more LRT lines, extensions and a downtown subway. I looked at the history of the C-Train and Phase 2 (the Northeast line and the beginning of the Northwest line) opened just 6 years after Phase 1 opened. We continue to fall further and further behind a comparable city. We started out 25 to 30 years behind Calgary and soon we could be 50 years behind Calgary.

What does this say about Ottawa and our future?

But you know, the Conservatives will likely spend just as much money but mostly on roads. That was the track record of Mike Harris and with plans for a new Niagara highway, this is what we will get from Hudak (who was always a disciple of Harris)

But with interest rate so low wouldn't it be the best time to borrow money for these project?

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Mr.Flintstone

But with interest rate so low wouldn't it be the best time to borrow money for these project?

Yep. Plus infrastructure spending has a very large stimulus effect on the economy. Cutting infra spending, as Hudak as proposed, would be a very bad idea.

[lrt's friend]

Hudak's announcement to offer to reduce income taxes means that he puts priority of people buying more junk at the dollar store instead of investing in public infrastructure with its long-term benefits to society. This is certainly the death knell to Phase 2, if he gets his way. In any event, which actually provides more good jobs? It seems to me, that with most merchandise manufactured off-shore, investing in public infrastructure will actually generate more good jobs for Ontario residents.