NEW YORK | Penn Station / MSG Renovation

[ChiND]

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/02/n...n-gateway.html

Penn Station Takes Up Two Blocks. Railroads Say They Must Have More.
After studying other ways to double capacity at the busy transit hub, the railroads that use it say they have concluded that it needs to be expanded.

[k1052]

Originally Posted by ChiND

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/02/n...n-gateway.html

Penn Station Takes Up Two Blocks. Railroads Say They Must Have More.
After studying other ways to double capacity at the busy transit hub, the railroads that use it say they have concluded that it needs to be expanded.

Their study says that they can achieve 40TPH with through running even when assuming their absurdly long dwells. If dwells (15 min commuter dwells lol) can be modestly shortened you'll get a few more TPH maybe like 44 or 45?

[chris08876]

Amtrak, MTA, and NJ TRANSIT Release Feasibility Study as Next Major Step to Increase Capacity at New York Penn Station:

1. https://new.mta.info/press-release/i...-step-increase
2. https://media.amtrak.com/2024/10/amt...-penn-station/


Oct 2, 2024

[NYguy]

https://www.enr.com/articles/59491-m...-come-together

More Pieces of $16B Hudson River Rail Tunnel Come Together





By James Leggate
October 11, 2024

As work progresses on existing contracts of the $16.1-billion Hudson Tunnel Project between New York City and northern New Jersey, outgoing Gateway Development Commission (GDC) CEO Kris Kolluri said during the commission’s Oct. 11 meeting that seven of the nine contract packages will either be under construction or in procurement by the end of the year.

“A significant amount of work is happening on site and in our finance department,” Kolluri said.

Work on the Tonnelle Avenue bridge, which will carry road traffic over the New Jersey side approach to the rail tunnel, is about 48% complete, according to Hamed Nejad, GDC acting chief technical officer. He also told commissioners that 65% of secant piles for the Hudson Yards concrete casing on the New York side are complete, crews have begun underpinning the High Line, and 17,000 tons of soil have been excavated to date.

In the river, Nejad said crews have been working on a test section of the riverbed for stabilization and are preparing to start deep soil mixing.

On the procurement side, GDC issued a request for qualifications for construction of the center portion of the two-tube tunnel. The scope of that contract is planned to include boring two 7,250-ft-long tunnels under the Hudson River using a pair of pressurized face tunnel boring machines, lining the tunnels with precast concrete segmental tunnel lining with a 25 ft, 2 in.-inside diameter, placing precast inverts in the under-river tunnel and the 5,100-ft-long New Jersey side of the tunnel, constructing nine cross passages and other work. Responses are due by Dec. 6, and Gateway leaders say they aim to have a contractor selected in 2026 to complete the work by the spring of 2029.

GDC has planned to build the tunnel in three segments, along with other work separated into additional contract packages. In August, the commission picked Schiavone Dragados Lane JV for a $465.6-million contract to build the New Jersey side of the tunnel. And earlier this year, it shortlisted three teams for the New York side. The shortlisted firms’ responses are due next month.

The commission also plans to release an RFQ for surface alignment work on the New Jersey side in November and order TBMs in December, Kolluri said.

• Video Link

[manchester united]

Just a curiosity: can anyone post the LIRR departure times from Penn Station to Jamaica from 1am to 5am before the new February 2023 times?

[manchester united]

Originally Posted by manchester united

Just a curiosity: can anyone post the LIRR departure times from Penn Station to Jamaica from 1am to 5am before the new February 2023 times?

Problem solved!
https://web.archive.org/web/20230225...oad/timetables
https://web.archive.org/web/20230225...document/84986

[ChiND]

I’m pretty sure that The Donald is good friends with Steve Roth of Vornado. Maybe, The Donald will give federal money to buy MSG and redevelop Penn. MSG could move to the Hotel Penn site across the street. It seems like President Trump, who's son is now at NYU, recalls that NY is the Greatest City in the World!

https://nypost.com/2024/11/08/us-new...again-sources/

Trump wants to make crumbling Penn Station and NYC subways ‘beautiful’ again: sources
By Vaughn Golden and Matt Troutman
Published Nov. 8, 2024, 12:16 p.m. ET

[NewYorkCity76]

https://www.otdowntown.com/news/mta-...ents-FH3922034

Members of this Station Working Advisory Group (SWAG) said they were taken by surprise by the reversal, after several years of raised expectations that included elaborate renderings of a light drenched train hall, as well as even more elaborate plans presented by outside groups seeking to compete for approval to design a new station.

“It’s really pretty shocking to see how far they’ve pulled back,” one member of the advisory group said. Eliminated from their plans is a greenhouse like train hall built in the present taxiway on the east side of Madison Square Garden between 31st and 33d streets, according to advisory group members who received the briefing.

The taxiway was closed as a security precaution after the terrorist attack of 9/11. Also dropped was any plan to improve the loading bays for Madison Square Garden, which are too small to accommodate all the freight. The result is trucks jammed on the street outside The Garden. “The MTA’s answer was that’s MSGs problem,” one advisory group member reported.

Reopening the underground passage from Penn Station to Herald Square was also deferred. One dumbfounded member of the advisory group said the MTA’s new plans approached Penn Station like a big subway station.

[Crawford]

This "advisory group" is dumb.

The passageway to Herald Square will be paid by Vornado, and/or whatever group develops towers in the Penn District. That was never part of the immediate Penn plans.

The grand atrium to 31st Street is part of Penn South. Again, never part of the immediate Penn plans.

The MTA has nothing to do with MSG, wants MSG gone, and certainly isn't going to incorporate their needs in the short-term planning.

Let me guess, this "advisory group" is made up of "community leaders", the same ones who like to whine about MSG, Vornado, and office towers?

[Busy Bee]

My best guess is they want to commit to a band-aid and kick a more ambitious total rebuild a decade or more down the road - when MSG may no longer be an impediment. I'm not at all opposed to that actually. I think we can live with a spruced up Penn until the time comes to wildly reimagine it. I would assume the parties involved are apprehensive about a multi billion dollar refresh that may actually be demolished in a decade and or stand in the way of a much more grandiose reworking in the future driven by actual train service changes.

[Crawford]

Right, Penn South is driving this. Penn South will be the southward extension of the terminal complex, incorporating the 12 new tracks and the added capacity once the second tunnel opens. Everything in the existing Penn, besides cosmetic stuff, has to be integrated with Penn South plans, which aren't finalized.

The article confuses a bunch of stuff. Some of their references are from the Cuomo/early Hochul-era office tower plans, which are on ice until office demand improves. Then they show renderings which have nothing to do with the MTA. There are various groups that have submitted ideas independent of the MTA, but there's no obvious reason why the MTA would go with those ideas.

I hate to reference the garbage NY Post, but they actually have a useful article describing the meat of the Penn Station plans. They have to figure Penn South out first.

https://nypost.com/2023/09/19/penn-s...-plans-reveal/

[NYguy]

Portal Bridge update...


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[NYguy]

For now, it seems this has been "Hochulnized", meaning they are going to focus on the bare minimum, functionality over beauty. To be fair, that's the only thing that matters as far as commuters are concerned. Can't hold up the improvements because it's not "pretty" enough on the outside.

A look at the planned improvements, minus any fancy renderings. Basically, the only change is would be the large mid-block entrance (though from the graphics, it looks to still be there), replaced by smaller entrances.



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Current Lower Level circulation space and planned improvement



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More open space for circulation and higher ceilings on the one level concourse


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[Busy Bee]

Like I've mentioned, I'm okay with this as long as the reason is they're buying 20 years give or take until the truly massive rebuild/reimagination is ready to go.

[ChiND]

The Erie County Clerk strikes again!

[k1052]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

Like I've mentioned, I'm okay with this as long as the reason is they're buying 20 years give or take until the truly massive rebuild/reimagination is ready to go.

Few things are more permanent than a temporary solution. That said these changes have been sorely needed for many many years and should be implemented as quickly as possible. I'd also like to see the west end concourse extended for access to the NJT platforms serving tracks 1-4.

[montydawg]

I believe these changes will greatly improve the station and will be complementary to any future expansion of the station. I’m disappointed they are not going to tackle the MSG taxi stand area and daylight that area, however It looks like these phased improvements are all designed to piggyback each other and will also make it more feasible to operate the station continuously through the transformation. Great to see they are tackling this now while the gateway tunnel is underway. Excited to see the finished product circa 2031!

[NYCityBoy]

The plans show they're making the station all one single level to maximize ceiling heights which is smart.

The change should be dramatic enough for people to feel like it's a "new" station.

I'm still bummed that the Hulu Theater is staying at MSG.

[JSsocal]

What meeting are the MTA Slides from?

[KVNBKLYN]

Originally Posted by JSsocal

What meeting are the MTA Slides from?

https://pennstationcomplex.info/stat...dvisory-group/