Winnipeg Jets

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by grumpy old man

I don't believe an NHL team in Winnipeg will be able to price their tickets higher to compensate for a smaller arena.

The net effect will be lower profits from ticket sales. To make a go of it in Winnipeg a team will most likely have to be a break-even proposition.

It will need to be very well run, lean and lucky...

Correct again, sir.

There is no way we can out-price markets like Calgary, Vancouver, and Montreal (which all have much larger seating capacity). A Winnipeg NHL team would likely have to find creative ways at making up for the lost revenue.

[1ajs]

like more sky box's witch theres room to do...

[h0twired]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

like more sky box's witch there's room to do...

Even if they were added the MTS Centre would still have less private boxes than most other NHL arenas.

I am beginning the think that trueviking himself was duped into believing an early iteration of the NHL rumour.

[grumpy old man]

Originally Posted by h0twired

Even if they were added the MTS Centre would still have less private boxes than most other NHL arenas.

Can you support this?

[h0twired]

Originally Posted by grumpy old man

Can you support this?

No because they could slap in a pile of tiny boxes to have "more" suites, albeit small ones.

Most NHL arenas already have skyboxes in the nosebleeds in addition to a 17,000-20,000+ capacity so even if the MTS Centre added a bunch (which is doubtful anyways due to the design of the facility) it would be unlikely that it would actually add more seating or revenue than it would in it's current configuration.

[trueviking]

You only need to add about 20 suites to be on par with most other arenas. There are currently 50 suites. It can be achieved quite easily. The study for exiting, washrooms and site lines was done long ago.

[Hawker]

Originally Posted by trueviking

You only need to add about 20 suites to be on par with most other arenas. There are currently 50 suites. It can be achieved quite easily. The study for exiting, washrooms and site lines was done long ago.

A bit of a comparison:

Winnipeg: 46 plus 2 party suites
Edmonton: 67
Calgary: 72 plus 4 party suites
Vancouver: 88 plus 12 party suites
Phoenix: 87 plus two party suites

All the NHL buildings have suites on at least two levels, the 'top of concourse' suites plus the 'top of the seating bowl' boxes.

[Hawker]

And some club seat numbers:

Winnipeg: 936
Edmonton: 3323
Calgary 1172
Vancouver 2195

The NHL arenas have club seating from goal line to goal line on at least one side, while in Winnipeg all the club seating is in one endzone.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by grumpy old man

I don't believe an NHL team in Winnipeg will be able to price their tickets higher to compensate for a smaller arena.

The net effect will be lower profits from ticket sales. To make a go of it in Winnipeg a team will most likely have to be a break-even proposition.

It will need to be very well run, lean and lucky...

yeah, somewhere in the bowels of this thread, i did a comparison....70 suites puts you somewhere in the middle.....the average is something like 90 but many of the large market arenas have 150-200….the median is in the 70’s.

Winnipeg would not have to make up the revenue compared to Calgary and montreal…..we never could….those teams are the top revenue generators in the league…something Winnipeg will never be…..to be viable all we need to be is comparable to the middle of the pack revenue generators…..the average ticket price times 15000 seats puts Winnipeg in the top 1/3 for ticket revenues….more than adequate….

Average ticket price in Calgary in 2008, was $1.3m/game revenues divided by 19300 = $67.00…...nowhere near $100.


the ice edge guys are a scam.....

[h0twired]

Originally Posted by trueviking

Average ticket price in Calgary in 2008, was $1.3m/game revenues divided by 19300 = $67.00…...nowhere near $100.

$1.3M divided by 15,015 is about $86.50.

Add taxes and ticketmaster fees and you are over $100/ticket average to have the same revenue.

So what's the status on your rumour these days?

[hexrae]

Originally Posted by trueviking

yeah, somewhere in the bowels of this thread, i did a comparison....70 suites puts you somewhere in the middle.....the average is something like 90 but many of the large market arenas have 150-200….the median is in the 70’s.

Winnipeg would not have to make up the revenue compared to Calgary and montreal…..we never could….those teams are the top revenue generators in the league…something Winnipeg will never be…..to be viable all we need to be is comparable to the middle of the pack revenue generators…..the average ticket price times 15000 seats puts Winnipeg in the top 1/3 for ticket revenues….more than adequate….

Average ticket price in Calgary in 2008, was $1.3m/game revenues divided by 19300 = $67.00…...nowhere near $100.


the ice edge guys are a scam.....

Originally Posted by h0twired

$1.3M divided by 15,015 is about $86.50.

Add taxes and ticketmaster fees and you are over $100/ticket average to have the same revenue.

So what's the status on your rumour these days?

See the bolded sections in the quotes above. Did TV say Winnipeg would be at the same revenue as Calgary?

[jimsabo21]

Originally Posted by h0twired

$1.3M divided by 15,015 is about $86.50.

Add taxes and ticketmaster fees and you are over $100/ticket average to have the same revenue.

So what's the status on your rumour these days?

Guess what ... 26 other teams in this 30 team league also have less than 1.3mm in revenue per game.

I forget the exact number, but if I recall correctly, the league average for revenue per game is 850K per game ($56.66 avg ticket x 15,000) ... so, that is where Winnipeg would need to be to be "average".

Also, regarding "club seats" ... this is an easy fix for any arena ... simply replace an existing section for slightly wider seats, add a waiter and you've got "club seats" that can sell for double the price.

[Pegger5]

Originally Posted by Hawker

A bit of a comparison:

Winnipeg: 46 plus 2 party suites
Edmonton: 67
Calgary: 72 plus 4 party suites
Vancouver: 88 plus 12 party suites
Phoenix: 87 plus two party suites

All the NHL buildings have suites on at least two levels, the 'top of concourse' suites plus the 'top of the seating bowl' boxes.

Okay everyone don't be naive; how many seats on average per box at these arena's?? Did someone actually look at that stat? Many arena's like Calgary have 6-8 seats in a box where as MTSC minimun 18 seats (plus) per box...

Also, arena's count all box seats as a part of their capacity. i.e Calgary has 19,289 total seats. That number includes all the seats in the box sutes and party suites...

As for the Club seats, that is such an easy change... All that means is they put some railing up and provide full service in your seats...

Come on guys, stop comparing rinks that have an NHL tenant to MTSC. If NHL comes to Winnipeg they will get it more NHL ready. (more boxes, club seats etc...

[h0twired]

Originally Posted by jimsabo21

Guess what ... 26 other teams in this 30 team league also have less than 1.3mm in revenue per game.

I forget the exact number, but if I recall correctly, the league average for revenue per game is 850K per game ($56.66 avg ticket x 15,000) ... so, that is where Winnipeg would need to be to be "average".

Coming up with average numbers would be great if all of the teams were profitable.

However in the NHL a third (if not more) of the teams in the league stand to lose money this year.

What is the average ticket price of a profitable team?

My guess is somewhere in the $70-80 range.

[Pegger5]

Originally Posted by trueviking

You only need to add about 20 suites to be on par with most other arenas. There are currently 50 suites. It can be achieved quite easily. The study for exiting, washrooms and site lines was done long ago.

Well that is an interesting statement from you... What are the plans for MTSC?

Or if easier to answer, what are the scenarios of added boxes or seats that you think will happen at MTSC if NHL came to Winnipeg?

[Pegger5]

Originally Posted by h0twired

Coming up with average numbers would be great if all of the teams were profitable.

However in the NHL a third (if not more) of the teams in the league stand to lose money this year.

What is the average ticket price of a profitable team?

My guess is somewhere in the $70-80 range.

Actually, Calgary made over 15 million last year and paid into revenue sharing. (with a 67 average) Their last 2500 seats sell for $15 - See Sportcheck seats..

Also, please look at season ticket prices then divide by 41. Not the price on the ticket or game day prices... That is a false price.

It is all about what a team can bring in $$ per game. That is it bottom line.. Nothing more and nothing less!

[Pegger5]

Originally Posted by jimsabo21

Vancouver Canuck season tickets save you a miniumum of 26% and can actually save you up to 59% compared to the walk-up price:

http://canucks.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=39568

That said, it's a moot point in Vancouver because every expensive seat is sold as a season ticket (they cap season tickets at 17,000 and have a 5 year wait list) ...

In other words, nobody can even buy a lower bowl ticket at the "walk-up" price which is why the average NHL ticket price in any city is always much less than people would expect (after seeing a price list).

For example:

The 2009-2010 average ticket price in Vancouver is $62.50 per seat. When you go on their website, every single tier is higher than $62.50 with the exception of one small section in the upper deck which is $55 per seat. HOWEVER, each one of these sections are sold out from season ticket holders whereby a 26-59% discount is applied. All of a sudden, the $100 sections are closer to $60, the $55 seat turns into a $30 seat, etc ...

Why do teams do this? It's a marketing ploy to sell season tickets! By jacking up the "single game ticket" price, they create the illusion that season ticket holders are saving a whopping 50% ... who could resist that! The beauty of it all is that the number they peg on the "single game seat" can be completely arbitrary because they never have to worry about actually selling these seats at those prices (since season ticket holders buy them all anyway).

Exactly.. understand Hawker ?

[grumpy old man]

Originally Posted by h0twired

My guess is somewhere in the $70-80 range.

I'd say we need to stop guessing when it comes to these discussions.

I think there are other factors that play into profitability (or breakeven-ness). TV and radio revenues for instance. It has been reported the the lions' share of TV and radio revenues in the entire league come from Canadian TV contracts. Which is to say, those contracts are significantly more lucrative on this side of the border.

Other factors to consider are souvenirs. I wonder how Winnipeg Jet souvenirs today compare to Nashville and Phoenix and Florida? This 15 years after they stopped existing.

Add in costs. What impact would arena costs and profits from a team owner that also owns the arena and enjoys the profits from concessions et al have on the bottom line?

We should look at the big picture rather than snapshots in a vacuum.

[trueviking]

.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by Pegger5

Actually, Calgary made over 15 million last year and paid into revenue sharing. (with a 67 average) Their last 2500 seats sell for $15 - See Sportcheck seats..

Completely wrong. Sportchek seats are mostly in the $40 range. *Some* of the seats are bought by Sportchek and sold in their stores at a reduced price ($20), but only a few hundred - I want to say in the 6-800 range but they stopped publishing those numbers as far as I can tell. The vast majority of "Sportchek" seats at the Saddledome are sold through Ticketmaster, for $40+. Same with the entire other nosebleed deck.

Also, please look at season ticket prices then divide by 41. Not the price on the ticket or game day prices... That is a false price.

It is all about what a team can bring in $$ per game. That is it bottom line.. Nothing more and nothing less!

Assuming good season ticket sales, you're correct. But it still doesn't change things for the "average" fan, ie: the 98.5% of Winnipeg who won't own season tickets. They'll still be looking at a much higher average ticket price if they want to go to a game, and it's the "average" fans who turn a team profitable. Very very few teams can survive on season ticket revenue alone.

Long story short, ticket prices are much higher for us mortals than the official numbers would lead one to believe. I still think Winnipeg could easily be profitable compared to the bottom 1/3 of the NHL in any event, especially once the 2009-10 season figures come out. Expect a lot more losses this year.