Official Fredericton, NB projects thread

[mylesmalley]

Come on, really? People are upset over a four story apartment building? There are all kinds of neighborhoods in Moncton with a random 4-story building here or there. They're low enough that you barely even notice them if they're on even ground with the surrounding houses.

[Lamespotting]

Originally Posted by mylesmalley

Come on, really? People are upset over a four story apartment building? There are all kinds of neighborhoods in Moncton with a random 4-story building here or there. They're low enough that you barely even notice them if they're on even ground with the surrounding houses.

I'm pretty sure that they're actually upset at the fact that it's an affordable housing project but don't want to sound like they're scared of poor people.

[corda]

Originally Posted by mylesmalley

Come on, really? People are upset over a four story apartment building? There are all kinds of neighborhoods in Moncton with a random 4-story building here or there. They're low enough that you barely even notice them if they're on even ground with the surrounding houses.

Terrance Street has been rapidly developed with townhouses from a semi-rural feeling area in about the last two years. I can't see many of the newcomers to that area complaining.
If this is built on the corner of Brookside Dr those on the top floor will have a great view of the new golf course and houses in West Hills. Depending on which side of the street you live on can determine the cost of your house by 200K -250K easily.
I'm betting that is where the complaints are coming from and considering how much more is being developed further out Brookside Dr it won't be the last.

[mylesmalley]

I'll admit, you're probably right. But I guess it's like anything. Everyone likes police stations, hospitals, low income housing, and big entertainment venues, but nobody ever wants to live near one. In the case of low income housing, nobody likes to see 'ghettos or hoods', but because of NIMBYism, these types of developments often tend to get crowded into one run down part of town.

And the insufficient parking argument gets used a lot in situations like these. The same company is building a 50-unit building on Myles St (sweet, i know!) in Moncton and that was the argument used to oppose it. If memory serves it only had room for 25 parking spaces, but the company argued that low income residents are much more likely to use mass-transit to move around the city. Then again, the project in Moncton is in the centre of the city and has good access to transit. I don't know how good the bus routes are in the Brookside Dr. area.

[corda]

Originally Posted by Lamespotting

I'm pretty sure that they're actually upset at the fact that it's an affordable housing project but don't want to sound like they're scared of poor people.

That too

[fredfan]

Does anyone know what's going on with Fredrick Square II?

[Smevo]

To mask the "I don't want to live near poor people" argument with one based on size is stupid for these people to do in this area. Just a block up Reynolds St is nothing but 4-storey apartments and condos, and let's not forget the random 4-storey on Douglas Ave just across the Ring Rd. I can't remember how much Terrance street has changed since the satellite photo, but I'm sure they could get the parking issue resolved if they needed to.

http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=543+Brooksi...-66.65195&spn=0.006634,0.021629&t=h&z=16

Being across from West Hills, though, I can't say I'm surprised.

[kirjtc2]

The Douglas Ave apartments are actually very high-end...though there are some lower-class ones just a few doors down Brookside.

But it's an upper-middle-class snooty area of Fredericton. They're expected to complain.

[corda]

Published Thursday June 25th, 2009
By HEATHER MCLAUGHLIN
[email protected]

A group of Korean business people has proposed a six-storey, glass-and-steel entertainment complex on a downtown west-end property owned by the City of Fredericton.

A few weeks ago, the group made its pitch to council at a closed-door meeting. It said the facility would include a top-floor restaurant and floors catering to different interests.

The group is proposing an indoor golf driving range, which would require that the exterior of the building have protective mesh netting facing the St. John River to catch stray golf balls and keep errant balls from hitting vehicles along the riverfront.

Part of the proposed complex would include a stage for musical events, a karaoke facility, a wedding boutique, and a gym.

City council has sent the proposal to the office of development services director Frank Flanagan to continue talks with the group.

Coun. Dan Keenan, chairman of the city's development services committee, wouldn't confirm details of the proposal.

"It's like any private developer wanting to do anything. I think it's their right to determine at what point they want to present ideas and concepts to the public," he said. "That goes for anybody, whether they're local or international or whatever."

Keenan said when the city receives development proposals, it's important for the groups to have an opportunity to talk with the city's development services department about their projects.

The land in question is located between the Royal Canadian Legion and the former TRA grocery store. The grocery wholesaler's building is vacant and the city uses the lot for parking.

In January 2003, the city issued a public proposal call, inviting developers to submit plans for the redevelopment of the site.

Local businessman Khaled Moomena of Arsam Ltd. spent more than $100,000 on consultant reports, feasibility studies, design prospects, engineering and soil analyses in hopes of building a set of seven-storey office towers with retail space worth $20 million.

But Moomena's proposal hit technical snags because the Queen Street site is a former garbage dump and his studies showed that it would cost $5 million to $7 million to dig through the layers of rotting garbage and poor infill materials to find a building base.

The Korean group is proposing to drive piles into the ground to support a lighter steel structure.

Keenan said city council may yet decide to go out to the public again and invite expressions of interest in the development of that site.

"At this time, there's no pressing need for that property," Keenan said.

"If it's something that we want to go to a request for proposal to elicit additional ideas, that may be something we do in the future or there may be one single proposal that comes forward that we think fits the property well and we might choose that one."

Keenan said there's no time frame for talking or working with any developer about the site.

"We need to be really careful about moving this to the public realm before any developer has a chance to do due diligence," Keenan said.

[corda]

Originally Posted by fredfan

Does anyone know what's going on with Fredrick Square II?

I haven't heard anything recently. Maybe the new building proposed for Queen Street could speed things up in that end of downtown. It could also slow it down, Fredericton can only handle so much office space.

[mylesmalley]

I doubt you'll see anything on Frederick Square II for a few years. The E Centre and additions to the Knowledge Park (and others) are going to create a glut of empty office space for a while as the city grows into them. It'd require one hell of a business plan to justify adding another quarter-million square feet of office space.

[cl812]

Originally Posted by mylesmalley

I doubt you'll see anything on Frederick Square II for a few years. The E Centre and additions to the Knowledge Park (and others) are going to create a glut of empty office space for a while as the city grows into them. It'd require one hell of a business plan to justify adding another quarter-million square feet of office space.

Also, i doubt the current economic climate is helping much either, there doesnt seem to be too many businesses expanding.

On another note, I guess PetCetera filed for bankruptcy and is closing all of its stores, including the one here which hasnt been open for very long.

[Smevo]

Originally Posted by corda

Published Thursday June 25th, 2009
By HEATHER MCLAUGHLIN
[email protected]

A group of Korean business people has proposed a six-storey, glass-and-steel entertainment complex on a downtown west-end property owned by the City of Fredericton.

...
The land in question is located between the Royal Canadian Legion and the former TRA grocery store. The grocery wholesaler's building is vacant and the city uses the lot for parking.

Wasn't that mystery rendering that came out last year or the year before for this land as well? The six or seven storey red-brick with glass rendering? I think that was a middle eastern company though, iirc.

As for Frederick Square II, I can't see Kileel abandoning that one, but with the influx of office space creating a situation where they don't have enough demand for it, I wouldn't be surprised if they sit on it until there's another wave of office demand. I think they were trying to beat out the E-Centre office building and/or gauging demand with the updated design (updated to LEED standards, I can't remember what level though).

[Lamespotting]

I am curious to know what is actually under the TRA/Lofood parking lot. The newspaper article says it's a dump, but is it just fill from demolition sites or is it household waste? I can imagine there would be some environmental liability if anyone buys that site and builds on top of it knowing that it's a dump.

Originally Posted by Smevo

As for Frederick Square II, I can't see Kileel abandoning that one, but with the influx of office space creating a situation where they don't have enough demand for it, I wouldn't be surprised if they sit on it until there's another wave of office demand. I think they were trying to beat out the E-Centre office building and/or gauging demand with the updated design (updated to LEED standards, I can't remember what level though).

They may be trying to pre-lease the space before building it. That's a difficult sell to companies who already have leases who will need to move into the new place on a specific date, not some random time within 2-5 years. As they can't afford to have vacant space, it won't get built until it's full. Since it's hard to lease a space that doesn't exist yet, it won't fill up. It's a catch-22.

If you look at the report linked below, you'll see a significant shortage of office space in Fredericton, especially class A.

http://www.gnb.ca/0398/investment/realestate/pdf/Q4%20Marketbeat%20Office.pdf

There is definitely room for more office space, but with no word on what's going to happen to the Centennial Building, I can understand why they aren't building.

[mylesmalley]

Originally Posted by kissman202

Here is a concept drawing from 2004. It is where the old tra building is across from the frederick square parking garage. From the addresses it takes up the whole parking lot also. Seeing that city hall is getting quite cramped. Were they thinking about building a new city hall? I've never heard anything about this building until now.

Figured it'd be worthwhile to resurrect this...

[Smevo]

^Thank you Myles, that's the one I was thinking of. Would be nice to add some glass to the city.

[cl812]

Originally Posted by Smevo

^Thank you Myles, that's the one I was thinking of. Would be nice to add some glass to the city.

agreed, downtown Fredericton is quite dated looking

[BradMacD]

I personally think there's too much glass in that building. Fredericton has more brick than glass, it just adds to the city's character and personality.
Maybe a little bit less glass?
For example, Barker House has about the right amount of glass, imo.

[xxFamilyGuyxx]

Originally Posted by BradMacD

I personally think there's too much glass in that building. Fredericton has more brick than glass, it just adds to the city's character and personality.
Maybe a little bit less glass?
For example, Barker House has about the right amount of glass, imo.

You're right.

You don't want a building with that much glass to be surrounded by older brick buildings. But the convention centre and office building has quite a bit of glass on it.

[Smevo]

There is a fair bit of glass on the RBC building (beside city hall) on the river side, it's just not large enough to be very noticeable. I disagree that a glass building would be out of place (though I'd rather see it more central to be a focal point). The city's not going to get any variety in height with it's height limit of (supposedly) 25m, so some variety in materials would do wonders for the aesthetics of the skyline. I think the brick on that building would tie in nicely with the red brick of Frederick Square and Queen St (eg-it's surroundings) while the glass would add some nice variety. That's just my opinion though.

Edit: I say "supposedly" for the height limit because I remember reading in the planning strategy about a height limit of 25m (lower south of Brunswick St), even though the city's new office building probably breaks that mark, and several existing buildings do as well.