"What's going on Sacramento" Chit-Chat

[Bubb90]

http://m.bizjournals.com/sacramento/news...interest-pushes-demand-for-downtown.html

[BillSimmons]

Originally Posted by Bubb90

http://m.bizjournals.com/sacramento/news...interest-pushes-demand-for-downtown.html

This is great news. When I read things like this and recent articles about all the new housing being proposed for Downtown and Midtown, it makes me realize just how terrible of an idea the arena truly was. It definitely has not been an economic generator for downtown Sacramento AT ALL

/s

[LandofFrost]

Originally Posted by BillSimmons

This is great news. When I read things like this and recent articles about all the new housing being proposed for Downtown and Midtown, it makes me realize just how terrible of an idea the arena truly was. It definitely has not been an economic generator for downtown Sacramento AT ALL

/s

I don't see the connection you are making. Tenants are filling up spaces everywhere on k street, they entire block across from downtown 24 is being rebuilt, the hotel next to the arena is being rebuilt, they are building a huge hotel/condo complex next door to the arena.

So you think that all of this would have happened anyways even if the arena wasn't going to be built? Maybe..... but definitely not with the speed some of it has been happening.

[jbradway]

Originally Posted by LandofFrost

I don't see the connection you are making. Tenants are filling up spaces everywhere on k street, they entire block across from downtown 24 is being rebuilt, the hotel next to the arena is being rebuilt, they are building a huge hotel/condo complex next door to the arena.

So you think that all of this would have happened anyways even if the arena wasn't going to be built? Maybe..... but definitely not with the speed some of it has been happening.

Nothing I've seen supports what Bill Simmons said either. A number of properties around the arena have been bought in the last year and all of them have cited the arena as a big reason why they were purchased.

[ThatDarnSacramentan]

Guys, I'm gonna go ahead and guess the /s at the end of the post is implying sarcasm.

[creamcityleo79]

Originally Posted by ThatDarnSacramentan

Guys, I'm gonna go ahead and guess the /s at the end of the post is implying sarcasm.

Agreed...totally sarcastic. Even the last part reveals his true feelings.

[creamcityleo79]

Sacramento seeks to demolish, rebuild public housing projects

For generations since World War II, thousands of Sacramento’s poor have lived in semi-seclusion in the shadows of the city cemetery, largely cut off from the city around it.

The Alder Grove housing project, which borders on Broadway, and nearby Marina Vista, tucked at the base of Interstate 5, were built at a time when government housing programs clustered the poor in one spot. It was convenient, but not conducive to the tough task of integrating people into the workforce and out of poverty.

Housing officials say it’s time for the rows of antiquated barracks-like brick buildings to come down, to be replaced by a mixed-use neighborhood, where the poor would mingle with more affluent families in an urban, energetic community.

The plan, years in the making, follows a trend in other cities, backed by federal money. The razing and rebuilding of the two neighborhoods could take a decade or more to complete. It would be the biggest change in Sacramento public housing since the initial construction of the two projects, formerly known as New Helvetia and Seavey Circle.

WE CANNOT LEAVE IN PLACE THE FUNDAMENTALS THAT HAVE CREATED THIS POCKET OF POVERTY.

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article23689480.html#storylink=cpy

[creamcityleo79]

New grocery seen as catalyst for Del Paso development

An oasis is taking shape in the “food desert” known as Del Paso Heights.

Work began this week to convert the long-shuttered Market Basket grocery store, near the corner of Marysville Boulevard and Grand Avenue, into a modern Viva Supermarket. New refrigeration units are being installed. Shelving is going up. The floors and roof are being replaced.

The expected opening date for the new store: Early August, according to Sean Loloee, owner of the Viva chain.

He’s promising not only a long-awaited full-service market for a community that’s long done without one – but also a sort of catalytic presence that could help spur development throughout the gritty, low-income neighborhood.

“Opening a supermarket in an area like this is literally a gateway for other businesses to follow,” Loloee said this week as he gave a tour of another nearby Viva store. In his experience, banks, pharmacies, coffee shops and various retailers quickly follow after grocery stores take the first steps to open in neglected neighborhoods.

That’s exactly the hope of Sacramento City Councilman Allen Warren, who grew up in the area and helped recruit Viva. “You think of some of the things that people take for granted – like grocery stores and banks – and they don’t exist here,” he said.


Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/news/business/article23693611.html#storylink=cpy

[travis bickle]

Originally Posted by BillSimmons

This is great news. When I read things like this and recent articles about all the new housing being proposed for Downtown and Midtown, it makes me realize just how terrible of an idea the arena truly was. It definitely has not been an economic generator for downtown Sacramento AT ALL

/s

What? I think Bill is being absolutely SERIOUS! All enlightened people know that Downtown's rebirth has NOTHING to do with the new arena and is all due to relaxed parking requirements and a vigorous adherence to historical accuracy! And high-speed rail!

[BillSimmons]

Originally Posted by travis bickle

What? I think Bill is being absolutely SERIOUS! All enlightened people know that Downtown's rebirth has NOTHING to do with the new arena and is all due to relaxed parking requirements and a vigorous adherence to historical accuracy! And high-speed rail!

Taxi Driver gets it

[wburg]

Yes, public-funded arenas can cause excitement, activity and a sense of euphoria. So does cocaine. But there are some unpleasant side effects to that substance.

Those who pay attention to things in cities other than Sacramento will note that there's an economic boom going on, our closest urban neighbor is undergoing an unprecedented economic cycle that pushed its land values above New York, and there is also a nationwide shift back to urban centers, especially in second-order cities like Sacramento. So yeah, I'd suspect these larger economic factors have a bigger overall effect on the local market, but the arena has given it, well, let's call it a "bump."

As to relaxed parking requirements and historic rehab, well, a lot of the projects generating the most excitement are due to the recently enacted zoning code, that made a lot more urban projects possible (through things like eliminating parking minimums) including the arena, which, as you may recall, has a very small parking lot. Some are due to other subtle changes, like three-lane one-way streets being converted to two-lane streets with bike lanes--resulting increase in bike and pedestrian activity made businesses flourish along those routes, since nobody wants to stop and shop on the pseudo-highway. And some of the most exciting projects in the city are taking place in historic properties being rehabbed. These are projects facilitated through changes in code. They have contributed to the central city's overall economic health, mostly through projects entitled before the arena plan was finalized, by adding new housing--we're already up about 2000 housing units since 2010, which, considering there were 20,000 units then, means about a 10% population increase in 4 years, not counting units vacant in 2010 due to foreclosure that are now largely occupied. The cocaine has resulted in banks being a bit freer with money--again, we'll see if the long-term difference pans out. We were largely on an economic upswing.

It's not an all-or-NOTHING thing, but, at best, the arena is one of many factors occurring right now, some healthy, some not-so-healthy. I'm not of the "make no small plans" school of thought--cities are made up of thousands of small plans, that add up to far more than the sum of their parts, and things like code changes or having the existing urban fabric to rehab can make a large systemic difference, even if it's not one Big Shiny Thing everyone can point to. The potential problem is, what happens when we get to the bottom of the arena cocaine bag and the buzz wears off? Buy another bag, or crash?

[ThatDarnSacramentan]

Originally Posted by wburg

Yes, public-funded arenas can cause excitement, activity and a sense of euphoria. So does meth.

That is hands down the worst, most ridiculous comparison I've ever seen on this site, and it is certainly far from something I'd ever expect you to write.

That's not to say I think you're entirely wrong. Of course there are larger economic factors at play, and small changes are playing a role as well. But, I'd bet you ten bucks and a maple bar from Marie's that attracting new investors is done more by buzz than it is by a revision to two or three zoning regulations. The arena has sexiness to it; revised ADU codes don't. This city could've done everything right in adding bike lanes and working with historical review committees and supporting local businesses, but at the end of the day, we were just another hard-hit recession city that needed a major shock to the system. For all the other economic and regulatory factors out there, that arena is a goddamn defibrillator for downtown, even if the Kings suck because the owner's a clown.

Everyone on this site knows you're anti-arena. We also know you're a passionate Sacramentan that really cares about this city; hell, I have most of your books sitting on my desk, and they're great. But let's try and have some perspective here, that in the grand scheme of things, that arena's going to do a lot more for downtown than adding bike lanes on H Street ever would.

[jbradway]

Yes, public-funded arenas can cause excitement, activity and a sense of euphoria. So does meth. But there are some unpleasant side effects to that substance.

I stopped reading after that opening gem. Not the way to get people to agree with your ideas.

[BillSimmons]

Originally Posted by ThatDarnSacramentan

That is hands down the worst, most ridiculous comparison I've ever seen on this site, and it is certainly far from something I'd ever expect you to write.

That's not to say I think you're entirely wrong. Of course there are larger economic factors at play, and small changes are playing a role as well. But, I'd bet you ten bucks and a maple bar from Marie's that attracting new investors is done more by buzz than it is by a revision to two or three zoning regulations. The arena has sexiness to it; revised ADU codes don't. This city could've done everything right in adding bike lanes and working with historical review committees and supporting local businesses, but at the end of the day, we were just another hard-hit recession city that needed a major shock to the system. For all the other economic and regulatory factors out there, that arena is a goddamn defibrillator for downtown, even if the Kings suck because the owner's a clown.

Everyone on this site knows you're anti-arena. We also know you're a passionate Sacramentan that really cares about this city; hell, I have most of your books sitting on my desk, and they're great. But let's try and have some perspective here, that in the grand scheme of things, that arena's going to do a lot more for downtown than adding bike lanes on H Street ever would.

Standard for wburg. Why say something logical when you can make up some outrageous, fear-mongering bullshit?

[ThatDarnSacramentan]

Originally Posted by BillSimmons

Standard for wburg. Why say something logical when you can make up some outrageous, fear-mongering bullshit?

I'm aware, I've been here long enough. I might as well say something like keeping all these "historical" buildings downtown is like keeping the preserved corpse of a loved one in your house. It's completely baseless, vulgar, and intellectually insulting.

[BillSimmons]

Originally Posted by ThatDarnSacramentan

I'm aware, I've been here long enough. I might as well say something like keeping all these "historical" buildings downtown is like keeping the preserved corpse of a loved one in your house. It's completely baseless, vulgar, and intellectually insulting.

It's absurd. The man fought tooth and nail trying to convince everybody that building an arena would open up the gates of hell and send us spiraling into a fiery inferno. Now that it's actually working (much better than anybody thought I might add) were just going to go ahead and compare it to meth.

Who else could come up with something like that? I REJECT YOUR REALITY AND INSTITUTE MY OWN!

[snfenoc]

What do you mean by, "it's working"?

Don't any of you remember....say 10 years ago when Sacramento had proposals up to its eyeballs? Show me something more than a few projects (that would have gotten built anyway) and a bunch of POTENTIAL developments to justify this 250 million dollar investment.

I don't agree with wburg on A LOT of things and he annoys me sometimes, but these responses are just plain rude and disrespectful. He makes a good point...give the arena some credit for creating buzz, but we'd still see development and excitement and pretty drawings in the Business Journal without it. Not to mention, the city would have less debt.

[ThatDarnSacramentan]

Originally Posted by snfenoc

What do you mean by, "it's working"?

Don't any of you remember....say 10 years ago when Sacramento had proposals up to its eyeballs? Show me something more than a few projects (that would have gotten built anyway) and a bunch of potential developments to justify this 250 million dollar investment.

I don't agree with wburg on A LOT of things, but this is just plain rude and disrespectful. He makes a good point...give the arena some credit for creating buzz, but we'd still see development and excitement and pretty drawings in the Business Journal without it. Not to mention, the city would have less debt.

Imagining that the first section is left off his post, I see a reasonable post worth discussion. It's a good starting point to discuss the merits of how much of a factor the arena plays into current development trends in Sacramento, what the perceived downsides are, and whether any of them outweigh the positive effects of the arena development.

However, there's no way a comparison between admiring a brand new arena and doing meth belongs anywhere in a reasonable, intelligent, civilized discussion. I mean, really? Meth? A horrible illegal drug that rots peoples' teeth out of their face and turns them into one of the zombies from 28 Days Later? If it were something like the arena is a fad, or people are putting too many eggs in one basket, or even something as simple as just saying "I believe the arena's getting too much credit for redevelopment downtown," there's no issue, no problem. I say with full certainty, however, that comparisons such as the one made will rightly and deservedly be picked apart and scrutinized, and that is all I have left to say about this.

[snfenoc]

Please. It's an analogy...all analogies break down at some point. However, by picking apart the analogy, you are ignoring the actual lesson. I commend your obfuscation abilities.

It isn't that ridiculous a comparison... Like stimulant drugs, arenas (instead, I would substitute, "public subsidies") may create a euphoria, but that euphoria may wear off AND we may experience some drawbacks (**cough, cough, high debt**). So what's the issue?

[ozone]

Originally Posted by snfenoc

Please. It's an analogy...all analogies break down at some point. However, by picking apart the analogy, you are ignoring the actual lesson. I commend your obfuscation abilities.

It isn't that ridiculous a comparison... Like stimulant drugs, arenas (instead, I would substitute, "public subsidies") may create a euphoria, but that euphoria may wear off AND we may experience some drawbacks (**cough, cough, high debt**). So what's the issue?

Lest we forget, that believers in, and followers of, the discredited psychopath A Rand make strange bedfellows indeed.