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  #1101  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2008, 5:16 PM
wxjay wxjay is offline
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Originally Posted by MarketsWork View Post
In my opinion, the best way to jump start public transportation is to build the northern portion of the Beltline and to integrate it with a transfer point on the MARTA North line.
Yeah, sure, the part where we carry people from the super diverse areas of Knight Park and the Fulton County Jail over to Howell Mill and Piedmont Hospital will really change people's attitudes toward "transportation welfare."

No, what needs to happen is for people to start actually paying for the costs of road maintenance (which is an underfunded department anyways). That's right - taxes get raised to drive on roads, whether it be through actual taxes, a toll on highways, or whatever. In that way, people will stop being free riders and start thinking of other ways to get from point A to point B. Once people are faced with the economic costs of their actions, attitudes will change. New ideas will be realized and accepted. People will appoint/elect those that follow those ideas. That's the only way.

I am all for democracy, but I am also all for some central "authority" that needs to step in and just give it to the people like it is. We CANNOT continue on the path we are on now here in metro Atlanta. We CANNOT accept expanding highways to 20+ lanes. Enough is enough, and a pretty little rail car that makes a circle around Atlanta isn't gonna cut it.
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  #1102  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2008, 6:15 PM
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I think another big key to attracting diverse ridership is an emphasis on TOD's with little or no parking. Lindbergh is great, but I'll be honest, I usually drive there. If we keep providing huge decks with free parking, then nothing will change. The stations in Midtown would be great test cases for TOD's without parking because the population is high enough.
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  #1103  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2008, 6:48 PM
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We CANNOT accept expanding highways to 20+ lanes.
Don't worry...the high price of gas is already having an effect. The population increase is at least offset by people relocating closer to work and overall decrease in driving due to transportation cost. I don't think we'll have to worry about additional lanes, at least not on the interstates.

That, and increasing risk of recession, is why I'm not too crazy about additional sales tax for transportation. Don't think more than 5% of it would go for public transit. We're talking road building lobby here.
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  #1104  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2008, 8:16 PM
smArTaLlone smArTaLlone is offline
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Originally Posted by tdawg View Post
How can you compare a ten mile light rail system to a 30 year old, 50 mile heavy rail subway with 50 times the daily ridership?
Daily ridership is now 262,000. Very impressive for a low density city where the vast majority of transportation/infrastructure focus is on roads and sprawl.

And ridership has increased 10%+ for the last 2 years. The cities population growth, gas prices, and the Breeze system and other upgrades are already changing the makeup of Marta patrons,not to mention the fact that many people that come here a not affected by perceptions OTP or under the Gold Dome .

Last edited by smArTaLlone; Apr 7, 2008 at 9:55 PM.
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  #1105  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2008, 9:43 PM
Andrea Andrea is offline
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Originally Posted by Fiorenza View Post
Don't worry...the high price of gas is already having an effect. The population increase is at least offset by people relocating closer to work and overall decrease in driving due to transportation cost.
In places like Atlanta the high price of gasoline could definitely put a crimp in the "back to the city" movement.
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  #1106  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2008, 3:34 AM
GTviajero81 GTviajero81 is offline
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To be more correct, average daily ridership for MARTA in FY2006 was 451,064.
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  #1107  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2008, 3:54 AM
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In places like Atlanta the high price of gasoline could definitely put a crimp in the "back to the city" movement.
Andrea, energy cost may have the effect of causing companies to move back to the center, where there is more density and availability of mass transit for workers. IMHO.
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  #1108  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2008, 5:43 AM
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Originally Posted by GTviajero81 View Post
To be more correct, average daily ridership for MARTA in FY2006 was 451,064.

The 262,000 number is just for rail passengers alone excluding buses.
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  #1109  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2008, 8:30 AM
Andrea Andrea is offline
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Originally Posted by Fiorenza View Post
Andrea, energy cost may have the effect of causing companies to move back to the center, where there is more density and availability of mass transit for workers. IMHO.
That's conceivable, Fiorenza, but it doesn't seem likely. 40% of the workers who live within the city already commute to work outside the city. And if you're looking at the density of skilled workers, that may be greater outside the city than in it.
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  #1110  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2008, 3:02 PM
jaypkatl jaypkatl is offline
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When I lived in Atlanta, I had to commute 30 miles north to Alpha-friggin-retta for work. It sucked! Taking public transportation was out of the question since I would have to take the train to a bus and then walk an additional 2 miles just to get to work.
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  #1111  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2008, 7:32 PM
smArTaLlone smArTaLlone is offline
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Originally Posted by GTviajero81 View Post
To be more correct, average daily ridership for MARTA in FY2006 was 451,064.
Rail is what was being discussed.

Last edited by smArTaLlone; Apr 8, 2008 at 7:56 PM.
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  #1112  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2008, 10:32 PM
GTviajero81 GTviajero81 is offline
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Originally Posted by smArTaLlone View Post
Rail is what was being discussed.
I did not separate rail and bus usage for a reason. To be more correct (therefore implying initial correctness), I wanted to give the average daily total ridership of the system for comparison purposes and, in particular, for those who may be reading this forum who are not in or from the area.

It's generally good to give the whole picture when citing statistics, eh?
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  #1113  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2008, 4:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTviajero81 View Post
I did not separate rail and bus usage for a reason. To be more correct (therefore implying initial correctness), I wanted to give the average daily total ridership of the system for comparison purposes and, in particular, for those who may be reading this forum who are not in or from the area.

It's generally good to give the whole picture when citing statistics, eh?
Not necessarily, especially when you're comparing different modes of transit such as bus and rail. Rail's ridership, due to the mode's lower level of flexibility, is a lot more dependent on its immediate urban surroundings as well as feeder bus services. Therefore, it's important that such statistics be separated in certain situations so that proper analysis of each mode as well as the whole system be taken into account.

The fact that MARTA heavy rail gets as many riders as it does despite its mostly low-density surroundings is not a statistic to be brushed aside or lumped with bus statistics. No amount of feeder service in such a suburban setting can produce the number of riders the rail system sees on any given day. MARTA heavy rail's ability to attract park-and-ride commuters and to serve as a catalyst for TOD is quite remarkable. It's by far the most successful transit system of its kind south of DC and arguably east of LA.
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  #1114  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2008, 1:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrea View Post
In places like Atlanta the high price of gasoline could definitely put a crimp in the "back to the city" movement.
I guess this might be a difference between city folk and suburbanites.

As an intowner, I would definitely change jobs to work closer to where I lived, if I had to. I have so much time and energy invested in community activism, volunteer work, fixing up my home, working with the neighborhood association, building ties with city councilmen, local police - I couldn't imagine giving all that up - my home is definitely more than just a place to sleep and park my car.

I'm amazed at some of the people I've worked with that think nothing of moving from one cookie cutter condo to the next just to be closer to their office park job.

I actually would think that higher gas prices would drive people more in town. There's not only work to consider, but how far you're driving to the grocery store, the movies, shopping, for your morning joe.

Then if you add transit on top of that, even what we have now, then maybe eventually more gravy like the beltway, trolleys, the pots only that much sweeter.
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  #1115  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2008, 2:32 PM
Andrea Andrea is offline
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Originally Posted by Chris Creech View Post
I actually would think that higher gas prices would drive people more in town. There's not only work to consider, but how far you're driving to the grocery store, the movies, shopping, for your morning joe.
Chris, I think that might be true if the city was more of an employment center. In Atlanta only about 20% of the jobs are inside the city limits, and that includes the airport, Midtown, Buckhead, downtown, the industrial districts, the school system, etc. ARC predicts that percentage will go even lower in the coming decades.

With transportation costs going up it seems likely that people are going to want to cluster closer to their jobs rather than moving intown. As I mentioned, around 40% of city residents already work outside the city and they may be drawn to move closer to work as well.

My guess is that we'll see increasing urbanization (including more transit options) in the suburbs, especially around the big employment centers.
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  #1116  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2008, 5:22 PM
smArTaLlone smArTaLlone is offline
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But once again you're talking about 20% of the jobs on 1.5% of metro land. High gas prices still bodes well for continued population growth in the city.
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  #1117  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2008, 5:29 PM
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Marietta rail hopes gain steam

Backers of Athens route will keep pushing, but I-75 area would be cheaper, study says, and could add a south line.

By ARIEL HART
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Published on: 04/11/08

Is a Marietta line in and the Athens line out for commuter rail?

No way, say Atlanta-Athens "Brain Train" advocates.

But transportation leaders were fired up Thursday because that's a plan that could possibly be implemented with newly identified funding.

A new study shows that a rail line relieving the I-75 corridor could be a lot cheaper than the line through the Emory University corridor to Gwinnett County and Athens.

Cheap enough, in fact, that a new funding idea combined with existing money could pay to build and run two lines: the whole northern line through the Marietta area and on to Cartersville, plus the Lovejoy line on to Griffin.

George Zier, a lawyer in the state attorney general's office, delivered those findings to a special meeting at the state Department of Transportation.

The committee recommended that the full DOT board, meeting next week, get its staff working on the new funding.

The new funding source is a rail line that the state already owns, which generates about $6 million to $7 million a year in lease payments from CSX railroad.

Leveraged correctly, that money could fill budget gaps that have bedeviled rail transit advocates, and it could significantly contribute to getting the lines built and the cars bought, Zier said.

The money currently goes to the state, so the Legislature would have to vote to give it up. On the bright side, lawmakers wouldn't be faced with appropriating money to the commuter rail every year.

"I think it's exciting," said House Transportation Committee Chairman Vance Smith, who attended the meeting. "Our ears perk up when you say no appropriations."

Smith said he would try to convene a special meeting of the transportation committee at the legislature to hear Zier's presentation.

The existing rail corridor to Athens would need double-tracking and significant reconstruction at a couple points, driving the line's cost to $700 million, according to a study Zier cited by R.L. Banks; by comparison the Marietta line would cost about $42 million.

Those Athens figures are fairly new and nearly double previous estimates by project advocates, of $383 million. That only means supporters have to work all the harder to get federal funding the project will clearly need, said Georgians for the Brain Train spokesman Paul Snyder.

With the Brain Train's potential to relieve congestion in the Emory/Centers for Disease Control and Prevention area and connect top universities and bioscience programs, "it will help economic development in ways we don't think any other corridor has the opportunity to," Snyder said.

A clear winner from the presentation is the southern line through Lovejoy. Millions of federal dollars were earmarked for it years ago.

"I'm more excited than I've been at all of the meetings that I've been to prior to this," said Eldrin Bell, chairman of the Clayton County Commission and a longtime backer of the southern line.
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  #1118  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2008, 6:08 PM
Andrea Andrea is offline
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Originally Posted by smArTaLlone View Post
But once again you're talking about 20% of the jobs on 1.5% of metro land. High gas prices still bodes well for continued population growth in the city.

Well, I'm talking about the 10 county area, of which Atlanta probably makes up closer to 5%. I think ARC is predicting we'll drop to 17% of the jobs within the city limits by 2020.

I think we'll see continued population increases within the city but unless there is a major shift in employment back toward town I'm not sure that growth will correlate to gas prices.
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  #1119  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2008, 11:43 PM
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The Athens line is the least of Atlanta's commuter rail worries. The ridership is there and everyone knows it, so politically pushing it through is not a high priority now: it's time will come.

I'm very excited about the Marietta/Canton line being pushed. That would be a tremendous alternative to widening I-75 to 26 lanes. It would be convenient to serving downtown Marietta, Cumberland, Paces Ferry Rd/Vinings, and Downtown Atlanta.
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  #1120  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2008, 3:05 AM
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Whichever line is built first must be the one which has the greatest likelihood of commercial success. Nothing breeds success like success, but nothing would set the whole concept back as badly as an overreaching and heavily-subsidized failure. The State-owned, CSX-leased trackage is a gift from heaven, so I think we should build the Marietta line first.
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