High Speed Rail in Canada

[Acajack]

I can definitely see the effect on commuting.

I am most familiar with the phenom around Paris where there are thousands of people living in TGV-served cities 150 to 250 km from the capital (Reims, Tours, etc.) who commute into the city every day to work.

The TGV makes it a 45 minute to one hour trip each way.

They buy monthly passes which are more expensive than a regular transit pass, but much cheaper than buying your ticket daily.

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

The number is a few years old, but I've read that 15,000 people in K-C-W commute to Toronto, while 9.000 people go from Toronto to K-C-W.

That sounds about right!

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I can definitely see the effect on commuting.

I am most familiar with the phenom around Paris where there are thousands of people living in TGV-served cities 150 to 250 km from the capital (Reims, Tours, etc.) who commute into the city every day to work.

The TGV makes it a 45 minute to one hour trip each way.

They buy monthly passes which are more expensive than a regular transit pass, but much cheaper than buying your ticket daily.

yeppers. I spent time in Reims and many took the TGV several times a week, splitting careers (or time) in Reims and Paris. Quite inexpensive, relative to the benefits.

[begratto]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

yeppers. I spent time in Reims and many took the TGV several times a week, splitting careers (or time) in Reims and Paris. Quite inexpensive, relative to the benefits.

SupdeCo Reims, bu any chance?

I commuted between Reims and Paris many times too...

[MolsonExport]

Neoma

[begratto]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Neoma

Same place! SupdeCo (École supérieure de commerce de Reims, or Reims Management School) was Neoma's old name.

I studied 6 months there quite a few moons ago as part ou an exchange programme with HEC Montréal. And spent quite some time partying in the caves de Champagne, where the student association had free, open bar champagne events sponsored by the grandes maisons de Champagne. Fun times!

[haljackey]

Via lobbying against high-speed rail system that would halve travel time from London to Toronto

http://www.lfpress.com/2016/04/15/via-angling-for-own-track-rails-against-high-speed

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by haljackey

Via lobbying against high-speed rail system that would halve travel time from London to Toronto

http://www.lfpress.com/2016/04/15/via-angling-for-own-track-rails-against-high-speed

Pathetic and selfish move by VIA. Their $4billion useless line is no alternative to the high-speed rail lines being pursued by Metrolinx. Screw em, the Ontario government isn't so short sighted to fall for VIA's ruse.

[Mister F]

Is the Via president directly lobbying against the London HSR line? Or is the newspaper just making it seem that way? Unless I missed something in the article, it looks like Desjardins-Siciliano's quotes relate to HSR in general or the Toronto-Montreal corridor specifically. Via's plans for Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal and Ontario's plans for Toronto-Kitchener-London don't appear to be competing with each other.

[JHikka]

Pretty one-sided article against VIA, IMO.

[Innsertnamehere]

The HSR Project is being run by the MTO, not Metrolinx. It extends outside of Metrolinx's area of service.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by begratto

Same place! SupdeCo (École supérieure de commerce de Reims, or Reims Management School) was Neoma's old name.

I studied 6 months there quite a few moons ago as part ou an exchange programme with HEC Montréal. And spent quite some time partying in the caves de Champagne, where the student association had free, open bar champagne events sponsored by the grandes maisons de Champagne. Fun times!

excellent. I attended a few champagne cave parties myself. Really fun, but wow, the hangovers were bad.(something about bubbly wine and bad headaches).

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

Pathetic and selfish move by VIA. Their $4billion useless line is no alternative to the high-speed rail lines being pursued by Metrolinx. Screw em, the Ontario government isn't so short sighted to fall for VIA's ruse.

VIA shouldn't really get a say there if it is entirely within Ontario, since that would fall under provincial jurisdiction anyway.

[Procrastinational]

Originally Posted by haljackey

Via lobbying against high-speed rail system that would halve travel time from London to Toronto

http://www.lfpress.com/2016/04/15/via-angling-for-own-track-rails-against-high-speed

The head of VIA should realize that Europe is not a great comparison. Car travel in North America is very cheap and quite convenient, which is not the case across the pond. That makes it much harder to convince people to give up cars for trains.
I don't think the main competition for medium distance rail in Canada is the car. Regional air travel is much more likely to be the main competitor along the Windsor-Quebec city corridor, and the only way to beat that is with comparable pricing, speed, and downtown to downtown service.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Pretty one-sided article against VIA, IMO.

From what it sounds like, VIA supposedly does not want the provincial government building high-speed rail anywhere in Ontario, regardless of whether they would be directly competing with whatever route(s) are chosen.

Who can blame VIA? This is, after all, a country of protectionism. Companies like to whine when their monopoly or oligopoly is threatened - whether it's taxi companies, Bell/Rogers/Telus, Air Canada, or Greyhound/Megabus.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Procrastinational

The head of VIA should realize that Europe is not a great comparison. Car travel in North America is very cheap and quite convenient, which is not the case across the pond. That makes it much harder to convince people to give up cars for trains.
I don't think the main competition for medium distance rail in Canada is the car. Regional air travel is much more likely to be the main competitor along the Windsor-Quebec city corridor, and the only way to beat that is with comparable pricing, speed, and downtown to downtown service.

Speed would be the selling feature of any HSR line over a car.

In order to compete with air travel the boarding will have to be efficient as well as having that downtown to downtown service. While owning a car will always be the most convenient way to travel, I think people will sacrifice some of the speed of air travel for quick boarding on a train as well as the luxury of having that downtown to downtown service. A HSR would be that happy medium between a car and air travel. I think the key would be having DT or at least near DT terminals..

Really, by the time you board a flight, fly to Pearson and cab/bus it to DT Toronto, you won't save all that much time depending on which city along the proposed HSR route you live in.
From the top of my head, if I called a cab right now to take me to the airport and catch a flight to Toronto and meet someone at Dundas square, I'm probably looking at three hours from the time I make the call.

Again, I'm all for Kitchener to Toronto as a first phase test run, followed by London etc.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by Razor

Speed would be the selling feature of any HSR line over a car.

In order to compete with air travel the boarding will have to be efficient as well as having that downtown to downtown service. While owning a car will always be the most convenient way to travel, I think people will sacrifice some of the speed of air travel for quick boarding on a train as well as the luxury of having that downtown to downtown service. A HSR would be that happy medium between a car and air travel. I think the key would be having DT or at least near DT terminals..

Really, by the time you board a flight, fly to Pearson and cab/bus it to DT Toronto, you won't save all that much time depending on which city along the proposed HSR route you live in.
From the top of my head, if I called a cab right now to take me to the airport and catch a flight to Toronto and meet someone at Dundas square, I'm probably looking at three hours from the time I make the call.

Again, I'm all for Kitchener to Toronto as a first phase test run, followed by London etc.

Downtown to downtown works best if your origin and destination are downtown. For suburban residents, the express line doesn't help as much, but higher-speed "regional" lines that stop at busier suburban stations can grab them efficiently as well.

[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

The HSR Project is being run by the MTO, not Metrolinx. It extends outside of Metrolinx's area of service.

If it gets built / or gets to that stage, all the provincial expertise here is with Metrolinx.

[ssiguy]

It maybe a somewhat biased article but it makes a good point..............why spend $4 billion to run trains no faster than the ones running today? VIA has legitimate beef about needing dedicated track but even if they were to get them the country would still need to spend more money on top of that to get the needed HSR.

VIA is being very selfish but I won't say I don't have some empathy for them. The feds have forced VIA to operate lines that are huge money losers {which is basically everything outside The Corridor} for strictly political reasons and yet not provided the subsidies to run those routes. The result has been VIA having to spend a vastly disproportionate amount of it's revenue subsidizing these very low ridership lines and the money invariably comes out of the lines bringing in real money........The Corridor routes.

If VIA wasn't forced by Ottawa to subsidize these routes then it's possible that VIA would already have dedicated track in the entire Windsor/Quebec corridor and therefore wouldn't have lost as many passengers as it has due to it's slow speed and reliability.

VIA sees an Ontario HSR line from London to Windsor as just the start of a bigger problem. They know that HSR to London will be a first step with Windsor coming next and potentially Ottawa and Montreal. Ontario wants to build on the turf it gets 90% of it riders from. An extension to Windsor would also mean that anyone coming from the US south or west of Detroit can get to Toronto and completely bypass VIA altogether.

It's is self centred of VIA but when it's all said and done it's Ottawa that has forced them into this position.

[kwoldtimer]

The whole (London-)Kitchener-Toronto discussion has confused me since it first arose a couple of years ago. Ontario is talking about HSR, VIA about more service, and GO in there with more trains as well. What Waterloo Region needs is more frequent train service that gets you Downtown to Downtown in under an our. We certainly don't need three different trains services. At some point somebody needs to bring some order to the planning.