The future of Hamilton's public transit

[SteelTown]

Seriously I wish councilors would have time limits. Merulla is going on like he's reading an entire book regarding HSR fares that includes cheap shots.

[SteelTown]

Council voted no to 10 cent increase on transit fares.

Now council will vote to approve a 5 cent increase instead.

[SteelTown]

No 5 cent increase. No changes to HSR transit fares this year.

[SteelTown]

It's official: No fare hike for transit riders

November 27, 2008
Nicole Macintyre
The Hamilton Spectator

Transit riders won't need to dig for extra change in the new year.

Council rejected a recommended 10-cent fare increase last night. The decision locked on a tie vote, meaning the status quo prevails.

An attempted compromise to raise fares by only 5 cents failed 9-7.

"We're entering extraordinary times," said Councillor Terry Whitehead, who argued the city must ensure its transit system is affordable in the coming months. "This is the time that we have to show compassion."

For residents already turning to food banks, even a 10-cent increase is too much, argued Councillor Sam Merulla.

But councillors who supported the fare increase argued taxpayers also can't afford to pick up the extra costs of running the transit system.

"This is a fairness issue," said Councillor Maria Pearson. "We can't keep putting this burden on taxpayers."

The city transit system is funded 53 per cent by the fare box with the remainder coming from the general tax levy. A cash fare costs $2.40. Tickets are $1.85.

Councillor Margaret McCarthy accused some councillors of being hypocritical for rejecting a 10-cent increase because of the impact on riders when they supported a $400 tax increase for Flamborough residents last year.

Mayor Fred Eisenberger warned freezing fares will only make this year's budget increase, now close to 10 per cent, harder to reduce.

"These are tough economic times. It's a question of balance."

While rejecting a fare increase, councillors supported increasing service along Rymal Road. Council also approved two new initiatives, free rides for people over 80 and reduced passes for youth in the summer. Staff will report back on how to fund the programs.

The city is continuing a pilot project offering half price bus passes to the working poor.

[omro]

What percentage of property taxes go towards Public Transit?
Will the construction of the LRT majorly increase property taxes?

I've a vested interest as I'll soon be paying them!

[SteelTown]

53% from fare box and 47% from HSR leevy (property tax).

[ryan_mcgreal]

Originally Posted by omro

What percentage of property taxes go towards Public Transit?

As Steeltown notes, 53% of the HSR's revenue comes from the fare box and 47% comes from funding. The city also receives gas tax monies from the federal and provincial governments, but if I'm not mistaken those go into general revenues rather than being earmarked for transit.

HSR funding is somewhere on the order of $30 million. Compare other operating budget items: Police Services ($110 million), Roads and Traffic ($60 million), Fire Services ($60 million), Waste Management ($32 million), Libraries ($25 million), and Parks ($25 million).

Unlike most of these budget items, the HSR budget is paid from a transit levy whose rate varies depending on where you live (this is called "area rating"). The old city of Hamilton pays an 0.087 percent Transit levy, whereas Glanbrook pays only 0.031 percent, Stoney Creek pays only 0.026 percent, Dundas pays only 0.021 percent and Ancaster pays only 0.018 percent - or about one fifth of the highest rate.

Originally Posted by omro

Will the construction of the LRT majorly increase property taxes?

No. The capital costs will mostly be paid by the province, with the city's contribution coming from its capital budget (money that is borrowed every year for capital projects and then serviced later from operating revenues). The overall operating costs for transit will go up somewhat with the addition of an LRT, but only because ridership will be much higher. The per passenger costs will be much lower.

At the same time, LRT is proven to attract billions of dollars in new private investment along the transit corridor (approximately 400 m to either side of the line), which will generate tens of millions of dollars in new annual property tax assessments. That will more than offset the higher transit operating costs.

[omro]

We all like the idea of LRT attracting investment

[adam]

... rather those of us who can see past the end of our nose like the idea!

[omro]

Saw this:

Merulla: Council should boost economy
January 02, 2009
The Hamilton Spectator
(Jan 2, 2009)

As the federal and provincial governments prepare to stimulate the beleaguered economy, Councillor Sam Merulla wants Hamilton to follow suit.

The local councillor plans to ask council at an upcoming budget summit to consider immediately upgrading its infrastructure program for 2009.

He believes the city should dip into its $100-million Hamilton Future Fund to pay for the plan, which would start to address the local infrastructure backlog while also creating jobs.

The fund was established in 2002 when the city received a $137-million hydro dividend.

The money, which was partially invested, is supposed to be used for "legacy" projects.

"What better legacy is there than addressing the economic crisis ... and the city's infrastructure deficit," said Merulla.

[FairHamilton]

The fund was established in 2002 when the city received a $137-million hydro dividend.

The money, which was partially invested, is supposed to be used for "legacy" projects.

With all the economic turmoil, are they sure there is still $100M left? As an example, I haven't heard much about the status of the cities ABCP investment lately, even in light of a restructuring bailout.

I'm guessing Rinaldo hasn't wanted to say too much as he's been moving towards the exit door at the city, and this would be a big black mark on his record.

http://www.thespec.com/article/301564
http://www.thespec.com/News/BreakingNews/article/486817

[BCTed]

Light rail just started up in Phoenix a week or so ago.

[SteelTown]

LRT would be a good legacy project.

[mic67]

I am not as aware of all the issue with regard to public transit in Hamilton.

But one fact with regard to the creation of an LRT system is that it must be realistic and for what is proposed, it is not realistic. The one agruement that supports no LTR is that the density along it does not justify one. Now a BRT system yep, that is the cheaper way to go and the b-line is rather effective and needs to exist on Barton Street. (brt = bus rapid transit)

That is not to say that as a Hamiltonian that I would not like an LTR, but it is not realistic. Although it would be future proofing the city, at least a Main st. line. Much like the Redhill express.

There are rail lines at the base of the mountain and south of Barton - the Barton one is rather wide and an LRT at either would be multi times more cost effective, but it would require a bus feeder system (north-south).

Mic67

[flar]

Why is LRT not realistic? In terms of residential, Hamilton is one of the densest cities in Canada. We need to work on our non-residential density in the core, but there are still 30,000 jobs down there.
This city was built around rail transit, that's why our public transit is called Hamilton Street Railway. BRT is a total waste of time, we already have it and it is not attracting new riders the way LRT would. It's a no brainer to reintroduce rail based transit here.

[flar]

This brings up another point, we need to quit comparing things in Hamilton to things in Toronto. Toronto is one of the largest cities in North America and has enjoyed a long sustained period of phenomenal growth. It is not a typical city. We should instead be comparing ourselves to mid sized cities like Winnipeg, Calgary, Edmonton, etc.

Compared to Toronto, Hamilton sucks. Compared to other places, Hamilton actually has a lot going for it.

[SteelTown]

In 2009 GO Transit is suppose to build the platforms near LIUNA Station. Perhaps at the same time the city could use the Hamilton Future Fund to build a proper Station instead of a crappy hut. Perhaps $10 million to build a nice modern Station.

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by flar

This brings up another point, we need to quit comparing things in Hamilton to things in Toronto. Toronto is one of the largest cities in North America and has enjoyed a long sustained period of phenomenal growth. It is not a typical city. We should instead be comparing ourselves to mid sized cities like Winnipeg, Calgary, Edmonton, etc.

Flar, I'll take your statement one step farther. We shouldn't be comparing ourselves to any other city. What purpose does that serve, to either make us feel inferior, or superior.

We should only reference what other cities have, or haven't done in passing. Then Hamilton should do what is best for Hamilton (i.e. blaze it's own trail).

[emge]

Hmm.. I see FairHamilton's point, but IMHO it is helpful to consider what other similarly-sized cities have done and the consequences of their projects... it helps us gather information as to what may or may not be a wise move - such as LRT's positive impact on a city of a similar size, and what cities with similar density and/or industry have done so we can project what may happen here.

[mic67]

The LTR is not realistic in a cost benefit ratio (yet - although the future benefit is another story).

Okay lets not compare cities per say, but rather density in areas of any city and as such Toronto is or would be a good starting point. North York was the 5th largest city in Can. at one time (or close to that). What year did the Yonge St subway get there? ie above eglinton ave. Mid to late 70's

Don Mills and Sheppard, I was told was once the most populated areas of North America at one time (70's) and it only got rapid transit -Sheppard subway a few years ago, and they were thinking of reducing or limiting service as a cost benefit ratio.

For well over 3 decades they discuss LTR from pearson Airport to downtown - nada.
Then along lakeshore or Queen St. nada
All High density residential.

Flar look at your own photo's (and I do like them) from the mountain, where is the obvious residential density
- just south and just east and just west of city hall - the highrise apartments.

Hey the b-line is great it halfs the time to get to downtown vs the reg. bus.

By what percentage would an LRT attract new riders - certainly not enought to justify it economically.
I believe that those people that would increase HSR usage would be commuters that the LRT would provide a 1 transit b-line
to their place of work, much like the usage of and by the people using the bitter way (TTC) subway in Toronto.

In the late 60's early 70's when I lived in Hamilton they had trolly buses -electric.

I am not a regular commuter to downtown but when I have used the Main/King bus in every way it has been superior to anything that the overburdened TTC has, Barton hasnt been that great and needs a b-line.

What I am saying isnt new and has been stated in posts regarding this issue, and I tend to agree with those points
that were made.

If Hamilton wants economic benefit as the result of any transportation improvement get a rapid transit system to Toronto - that is were the future is. Gesh... they dont even have regular go train service to Hamilton and that says loads.

In France they have the TGV and Japan the 'Bullit", the bahn trains in Germany, etc. Think of what a Windsor to Quebec City rapid transit would mean? But if they cant get it together for a rapid transit or regular rail transit to Hamilton or the places i mentioned in Toronto, you can argue LRT all you want.

BTW it was 24 hours by train from Rome to Amsterdam over 20 years ago as I remember. Now how about something like Toronto to Miami. Although North America was built on rail, that culture has long passed. I travelled most all of europe by train and I could not imagine nor understand how it would be possible any other way that could be as effective.

I cant compare Hamilton to cities which I have not been to or have knowledge of.

FLAR QUOTE
"Compared to Toronto, Hamilton sucks. Compared to other places, Hamilton actually has a lot going for it."

Yep. But Hamilton has great potential, one developer told me that the Steel industry was the worst thing that happened to Hamilton, and today that seems to be true. Short term gain for long term disaster.

Hamilton compared to what exactly? I cant think of anything close... at the moment.

Yes Hamilton is so different in so many ways than Toronto. And from what I see on the forum there seems to be many in the forum and outside of it that would prefer to be in Toronto. Hamilton is a big city without any of the benefits of one. That is NOT to say that there isnt any positive aspects of Hamilton, as my neighbour said "the 60's and 70's were the good times in hamilton." No tagging or garbage all over, for one thing. I would agree, I lived here and partly grew up here.

mic67