Shift: London's Rapid Transit Initiative

[Djeffery]

I haven't been on Wellington south of Grand to Baseline a lot lately but I noticed this week a house being demolished on the east side and then noticed that there are several empty lots along there now. Will be interesting to see what that stretch looks like as they try to "flatten the curve" in a few years

[ssiguy]

Watch a couple of the videos.

It is nice to see that the City has actually put some thought into stations and improving the entire pedestrian experience along both the Wellington & Eastlink lines. The improvements to lighting, sidewalks, tree planting, and cycling infrastructure not only are needed but seems to be viewed by the City as not just physical requirements but ways to beautify the city and greatly improve the public realm.

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by CanadianTalk

Phase 1 of the Wellington Gateway (Wellington from York to Grand) - https://getinvolved.london.ca/wellingtongateway
This also includes the widening of Clark's bridge over the Thames.

One thing really lacking in details is the status of the Wellington CN underpass between York and Horton. I haven't seen any regarding if that will be widened, have BRT run in mixed traffic or have one of the lanes become BRT only. Anyone have details on this structure?

[ericmacm]

Originally Posted by haljackey

One thing really lacking in details is the status of the Wellington CN underpass between York and Horton. I haven't seen any regarding if that will be widened, have BRT run in mixed traffic or have one of the lanes become BRT only. Anyone have details on this structure?

Check out the video titled "Design Overview - Wellington Gateway Phase 1". They are not widening the underpass, and the dedicated median BRT lanes end north of Grey, where they switch to shoulder lanes/mixed traffic until Horton, where they just run in mixed traffic until the downtown loop. It also doesn't look like they have included the widening as a future phase, so there won't be a full connection between these two sections of the network.

My guess is that they don't have the money for it. Widening that underpass would probably cost the same as, if not more than the entire Wellington leg of the BRT. This is going to create a major bottleneck between the downtown and Wellington sections of the network. This widening is probably what they should have put the remaining provincial funding toward instead of rebuilding the LTC headquarters.

[ssiguy]

They also didn't include anything about what the average Londoner cares about the most..............frequency levels. Rapid transit isn't rapid if you have to wait 15 minutes for it. The MINIMUM level of service should be every 10 minutes all day and night and 6 minutes in rush hour.

They also didn't state what the buses would be and if they are diesel, battery, hydrogen, or a combination of them.

[CanadianTalk]

Long post, but here are all the renderings.

DOWNTOWN LOOP PHASE 3








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EAST LONDON LINK PHASE 2












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WELLINGTON GATEWAY PHASE 1

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by ericmacm

Check out the video titled "Design Overview - Wellington Gateway Phase 1". They are not widening the underpass, and the dedicated median BRT lanes end north of Grey, where they switch to shoulder lanes/mixed traffic until Horton, where they just run in mixed traffic until the downtown loop. It also doesn't look like they have included the widening as a future phase, so there won't be a full connection between these two sections of the network.

My guess is that they don't have the money for it. Widening that underpass would probably cost the same as, if not more than the entire Wellington leg of the BRT. This is going to create a major bottleneck between the downtown and Wellington sections of the network. This widening is probably what they should have put the remaining provincial funding toward instead of rebuilding the LTC headquarters.

Is that overpass owned by CN?

If I'm not mistaken it's over 90 years old. Probably due for upgrades/replacement in the near future.

[Pimpmasterdac]

It was never in the cards to widen the CN/Wellington underpass as apart of BRT project, even in preliminary drafts. From the proposed CP/Richmond BRT underpass there would need to be adequate fire lanes on either side of the Wellington to service the buildings in case of an emergency, and/or expropriate and demolish one of buildings.

Definitely should've been considered as the area is a major bottleneck right now, let alone once BRT is operational.

[ericmacm]

Originally Posted by Pimpmasterdac

It was never in the cards to widen the CN/Wellington underpass as apart of BRT project, even in preliminary drafts. From the proposed CP/Richmond BRT underpass there would need to be adequate fire lanes on either side of the Wellington to service the buildings in case of an emergency, and/or expropriate and demolish one of buildings.

Definitely should've been considered as the area is a major bottleneck right now, let alone once BRT is operational.

You’re right, it would be a significant undertaking. Properties on both sides of Wellington north and south of the underpass would have to be bought/expropriated, relevant buildings would all have to be demolished, and Bathurst closed off from Wellington, most likely permanently. There would also likely have to be a new major underpass built at a nearby location to accommodate the traffic flow to downtown in the meantime, likely at Colborne or Ridout, as there would likely be no way to do it without shutting the whole section of road down. All of this on top of coordinating with CN. It would be a lot of work and a lot of demolition, but it would be a great opportunity to drastically improve the main entrance to downtown London.

I would like to see the city get ahead of this before development starts to potentially jump the railway tracks in the next 10-20 years. Hopefully the city is in the mood to keep improving railway underpasses after the Adelaide/Wharncliffe projects wrap up.

[inimrepus]

Originally Posted by ericmacm

I would like to see the city get ahead of this before development starts to potentially jump the railway tracks in the next 10-20 years. Hopefully the city is in the mood to keep improving railway underpasses after the Adelaide/Wharncliffe projects wrap up.

As much as it would be good for the city I don't see it happening. It is one of those project that everyone likes the idea of but most people don't realize how expensive it is going to be. A lot of people will be against the idea of improving railway underpasses once they see the cost, even if it is going to only get more expensive in the future.

[haljackey]

Ya and Wellington needs two lanes each way for that underpass too. It can get quite congested. Richmond on the other hand could probably see a lane cannibalized on it's CN underpass for BRT, and then have it run to Wellington via maybe Simcoe St one direction and Grey St another. Horton can't be widened here without significant disruption.

Another possibility is to build at-grade rail crossings for the BRT on either side of the Wellington CN underpass. This is a band-aid idea and ya would stop buses when there is a train, but when that happens they could use the underpass if the train is already there before the bus arrives.

You could also take out the sidewalks on each side of the Wellington underpass and maybe squeeze in another tight lane, maybe digging into the side of the retaining wall a bit if it won't collapse the structure. Then all you would need to do is build a dedicated pedestrian/cycling tunnel either to the east or west of the structure, cheaper overall.

BRT can be flexible with this opposed to LRT. Did the LRT plan use this underpass too? I know it was only part of the full LRT proposal and dead as a doorknob now, but interesting to think about still.

I am still perplexed why this wasn't brought up very much... and the fact the media has pretty much ignored it. I guess the proposed CP underpass was more attention-grabbing.

[Djeffery]

I don't know what the LRT plan would have been, but with BRT, I don't think they really think the expense is justified for the amount of times the bus goes through that underpass. A widened underpass would be a nice to have, but I don't think the powers that be think it's a must. I'm sure the thought process is something along the lines of "so many more people will use the BRT that there will be a lot of fewer cars using that road and the underpass will be fine for the expected volume".

[haljackey]

Just thinking about it - only the east leg would have dedicated lanes for the whole route. Using mixed traffic lanes / at grade rail crossing isn't really true rapid transit.

I guess the downtown loop would too, if you call that a route.

Wellington gateway runs mixed traffic for the CN underpass
West leg would have had mixed traffic on Wharncliffe
North leg would have had a at grade CP rail crossing

[haljackey]

I am a dingus and posted in the wrong thread. Mods please delete because I have no ability to.

[tyeman200]

It would be nice to extend the bridge to accommodate 6 lanes and sidewalks, and then instead have Bathurst continue over Wellington road as well.

[jammer139]

LFP article on project status.


https://lfpress.com/news/local-news/...ns-brt-network

[ssiguy]

Has LT released the style and type of vehicles they will use? I sure hope these aren't just standard articulated buses but rather ones that really stand out.

[GreatTallNorth2]

Yes, this is the latest image.

[jammer139]

Hopefully they have the forethought to include EV bus charging infrastructure into the BRT stations design contract they mention in the article. But what do you think the odds of that visionary planning are?

[MolsonExport]

whatever happened to that weird plan for the forks, with the pedestrian walkways over the water? did it get josh morganed?