ATLANTA | Development Thread V

[mayhem]

Thanks Simms! You made some great points. Hopefully this will be filler development until Centennial Hill maxes out and we'll see a more fitting project in it's place.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by simms3_redux

You can be sure the materials won't be very high quality, that it will be standard Type III construction, and that the architecture itself is highly recycled in every metro in Post's portfolio (faux brick, wood, and stone, none of which is fitting for Atlanta's more historic downtown core).

It was previously reported that the exterior will be 100 percent masonry, so hopefully this will turn out well.

I see it as an important bridge to the development of more housing downtown.

[RocketSurgeon]

Can we please not have the same five-page argument about building height every time something less than 30 stories is proposed? I know this is a skyscraper forum but neighborhoods like Downtown or Midtown that are currently a checkerboard of surface parking and vacant lots don't "deserve" a skyscraper on every block because they're in the center of town or they already have some high-rises. Even the vast majority of Manhattan is only mid-rise construction, and that's one of the densest areas in the world (and many, many times denser than Atlanta). You're making Atlanta out to be something it's not. Hell, you're making Atlanta out to be something no city is.

[Atlanta3000]

Meanwhile Outside of Downtown.....Developer proposing 50-story office tower, 500 apartments in Sandy Springs

http://www.reporternewspapers.net/2014/0...fice-tower-500-apartments-sandy-springs/

[atlantaguy]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

Meanwhile Outside of Downtown.....Developer proposing 50-story office tower, 500 apartments in Sandy Springs

http://www.reporternewspapers.net/2014/07/10/developer-proposing-50-story-office-tower-500-apartments-sandy-springs/

As much as I admire Hines, this is ridiculous. There is no need for a 50 story tower at the corner of Peachtree-Dunwoody & Mt. Vernon Roads.

You seem to be on the verge of a meltdown over the prospect of two derelict blocks on the edge of Downtown being developed with decent residential. What exactly is the parallel to highrises going up in other, totally unrelated and drastically different parts of town?

[BlueSangha]

[QUOTE=atlantaguy;6659665]As much as I admire Hines, this is ridiculous. There is no need for a 50 story tower at the corner of Peachtree-Dunwoody & Mt. Vernon Roads.

Talk about out of place, may be they should switch developments with centennial hill.

[Atlanta3000]

Additional Details on Massive Perimeter Development

Hines proposes ‘urban village’ on the perimeter

"Texas developer Hines is proposing an urban village on the Perimeter, a project that could include a 50-story office tower to lure the next Fortune 500 headquarters.
The project, to be known as Northpark 100, would also feature apartments, retail and a hotel. It would take shape at Georgia 400, Mount Vernon Highway and Peachtree-Dunwoody Road.
The project underscores a belief in the improving economy and the pursuit of another large corporate campus on the Perimeter.
It comes as companies such as Intercontinental Hotels Group Plc(NYSE: IHG); and Duluth, Ga.-based NCR Corp. consider relocating their headquarters.
NCR may want to expand over time to nearly 1 million square feet, enough space to fill the city’s tallest office building, Bank of America Plaza, according to commercial real estate sources familiar with the process."

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/print...n-village-on-the-perimeter.html?page=all

I have a preview - Northpark 100





Northpark 700

[micropundit]

Today's Atlanta Business Chronicle is reporting that Deloitte LLP, the New York based business services firm , will invest "tens of millions of dollars" in its first technology development center-dubbed iLab- in Atlanta that will develop software and analytic products for its Fortune 500 clients. The iLab project , which is slated to open in September, will create 400 jobs over the next 2 years. Atlanta successfully competed with 6 markets to win the project including Silicon Valley and Texas.

http://digital.bizjournals.com/launch.aspx?eid=04f33000-80c9-42ed-bd44-f28e58ea0d60&loc=pcmod

[RocketSurgeon]

Why is that office tower out of place? That's right on top of a MARTA station and in an area that already has several other towers. That would be an excellent addition to Perimeter.

[Verge]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

Additional Details on Massive Perimeter Development

Hines proposes ‘urban village’ on the perimeter

"Texas developer Hines is proposing an urban village on the Perimeter, a project that could include a 50-story office tower to lure the next Fortune 500 headquarters.
The project, to be known as Northpark 100, would also feature apartments, retail and a hotel. It would take shape at Georgia 400, Mount Vernon Highway and Peachtree-Dunwoody Road.
The project underscores a belief in the improving economy and the pursuit of another large corporate campus on the Perimeter.
It comes as companies such as Intercontinental Hotels Group Plc(NYSE: IHG); and Duluth, Ga.-based NCR Corp. consider relocating their headquarters.
NCR may want to expand over time to nearly 1 million square feet, enough space to fill the city’s tallest office building, Bank of America Plaza, according to commercial real estate sources familiar with the process."

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/print...n-village-on-the-perimeter.html?page=all

I have a preview - Northpark 100





Northpark 700

Nice development-- can we transport it to Downtown or Midtown? ;-)

[ATLcubs]

I don't mind the project being in the perimeter because recent trends have shown that that area of the perimeter is ready to support more density and to become a 4th major hub for density in addition to buckhead, midtown, and downtown, even though it's in sandy springs. I understand people say that even buckhead isn't that dense but I mean that the perimeter can be another urban area with taller buildings.

[ATLcubs]

I'm pretty sure northpark 700 has approval, and is waiting for tenants. Is that right?

[Curious Atlantan]

I agree with this post It is not about the height of the building, but about how much it contributes to the vibrancy of the neighborhood. I would much rather have all blocks occupied by mixed use five story buildings (like in Paris) than a ton of empty lots with a few skyscrapers with seven story parking deck bases (like Houston, or Buckhead for that matter)...

Originally Posted by ATL_J

Interesting article on "Optimal Building Height" I came across recently.

I struggle to understand people's complaints. This project is eating up multiple blocks of surface street parking, bringing active uses to many of the roads (ground level entrances and what appears to be retail along COP Drive), and bringing 400+ residents downtown. Despite some remarks, this is not a "high rise" district nor is it filled with high density or demand (considering this is the first residential project downtown in how long, I think that goes without saying). The museums and attractions across the street are sprawling single story attractions, the condos on W. Peachtree are 7 stories tall, caddy-corner is a neighborhood mostly comprised of two to three story townhomes / apartments, there's a stand alone Waffle House down the road, a Best-Western Hotel closer to Peachtree that's 4 stories tall, and I could go on and on.

Most high rises are vertical cul-de-sacs, meaning they can be very harmful to the urban environment. Look at Post Alexander, which some of you seem to be lauding. It's an impersonal high rise, on top of a parking deck, that does nothing to activate the street. There's a reason Buckhead is so "dead" in regards to urban activity. It's because they're all about high rises and not about the urban environment and I find it amusing that so many that want a lively city would seek to mimic that. I understand towers are neat, but towers aren't the solution to everything. Look at a city like Paris. Would you argue that any of it's low rise residential buildings aren't good enough? No, it's a great city, precisely because it has tons of low rise residential. Atlanta's issue isn't space. We have tons of space and we need to fill so we don't have all these vacant lots and underused real estate to make neighborhoods more inviting and active. This is exactly what this development does.

I would take this over any of the other Post proposals that have been put forth so far. This is perfect for the area, despite some people's illusions.

[scania]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

Additional Details on Massive Perimeter Development



I have a preview - Northpark 100





Northpark 700

This is a very cool looking.

[RobMidtowner]

I tend to doubt the benefits of a building that dense being located on top of a MARTA station in perimeter. Even in midtown, roughly 25% of people use bike/walk/transit so you can expect that number will be much less in perimeter. I think most people who work in perimeter live in the northern suburbs so this will probably add many more cars to an already over saturated roadway network. On a side note, I have never understood why most of the population seems to be OK with bad traffic. I think living/working in Atlanta for extended periods of time makes you forget what should or shouldn't be acceptable in terms of traffic. The dense areas around the metro have serious issues with urban design (downtown and midtown included). The perimeter area is not urban. It is a conglomeration of dense developments overlaid on a relatively rural/suburban roadway layout. There are several reasons why a development like this will add more to problems that cannot be easily fixed. Yet it seems pride, money and politics override quality of life issues. I would be pissed if I lived or worked near there.

On the Post Apartments downtown, I think one of the biggest deterrents to residential there is the homeless shelter. I don't care who you are, nobody wants to live next to a homeless shelter, especially when there's plenty of other locations to choose from when looking for apartments. It's the same thing that stymied development in the area between the Fox/Civic Center. There were several residential proposals there before the recession with only a few coming to fruition and I would guess their values have been stagnant or declining. It's an unfortunate reality.

[scania]

Originally Posted by RobMidtowner

I tend to doubt the benefits of a building that dense being located on top of a MARTA station in perimeter. Even in midtown, roughly 25% of people use bike/walk/transit so you can expect that number will be much less in perimeter. I think most people who work in perimeter live in the northern suburbs so this will probably add many more cars to an already over saturated roadway network. On a side note, I have never understood why most of the population seems to be OK with bad traffic. I think living/working in Atlanta for extended periods of time makes you forget what should or shouldn't be acceptable in terms of traffic. The dense areas around the metro have serious issues with urban design (downtown and midtown included). The perimeter area is not urban. It is a conglomeration of dense developments overlaid on a relatively rural/suburban roadway layout. There are several reasons why a development like this will add more to problems that cannot be easily fixed. Yet it seems pride, money and politics override quality of life issues. I would be pissed if I lived or worked near there.

On the Post Apartments downtown, I think one of the biggest deterrents to residential there is the homeless shelter. I don't care who you are, nobody wants to live next to a homeless shelter, especially when there's plenty of other locations to choose from when looking for apartments. It's the same thing that stymied development in the area between the Fox/Civic Center. There were several residential proposals there before the recession with only a few coming to fruition and I would guess their values have been stagnant or declining. It's an unfortunate reality.

I hear what you are saying, but I think we have to realize that it is a choice. There are plenty of people who rather work/live in areas that they feel they wouldn't have to be concerned with being accosted by panhandlers. Some of choose to live in an environment that we rather deal with some/lot of the rift raft, so that we have the option to be able to walk to restaurants, stores, etc. There tons of Americans that would totally disagree.

[ATLcubs]

Does anyone know what official height of Yoo on the Park will be?

[RocketSurgeon]

Originally Posted by RobMidtowner

I tend to doubt the benefits of a building that dense being located on top of a MARTA station in perimeter. Even in midtown, roughly 25% of people use bike/walk/transit so you can expect that number will be much less in perimeter. I think most people who work in perimeter live in the northern suburbs so this will probably add many more cars to an already over saturated roadway network. On a side note, I have never understood why most of the population seems to be OK with bad traffic. I think living/working in Atlanta for extended periods of time makes you forget what should or shouldn't be acceptable in terms of traffic. The dense areas around the metro have serious issues with urban design (downtown and midtown included). The perimeter area is not urban. It is a conglomeration of dense developments overlaid on a relatively rural/suburban roadway layout. There are several reasons why a development like this will add more to problems that cannot be easily fixed. Yet it seems pride, money and politics override quality of life issues. I would be pissed if I lived or worked near there.

If they're going to drive to Perimeter, wouldn't they drive to Midtown or Downtown if the building was there instead?

If you ask me, Perimeter has the best infrastructure for this kind of development of any CBD outside of Midtown/Downtown. It's certainly worlds better than Lenox. It has parallel streets laid out in a rough grid, and its transit stations are actually connected to each other.

The reason some people are complacent is that all cities have traffic. That's a fact of life. Show me one city that doesn't have it (outside of North Korea where cars are banned)... hell, show me one part of Atlanta that doesn't. Forget Ashford-Dunwoody... have you not seen Peachtree or 14th during rush hour?

[scania]

Originally Posted by RocketSurgeon

If they're going to drive to Perimeter, wouldn't they drive to Midtown or Downtown if the building was there instead?
The reason some people are complacent is that all cities have traffic. That's a fact of life. Show me one city that doesn't have it (outside of North Korea where cars are banned)... hell, show me one part of Atlanta that doesn't. Forget Ashford-Dunwoody... have you not seen Peachtree or 14th during rush hour?

This is also very true. I was going to mention about all cities having traffic.

[daharris80]

Originally Posted by atlantaguy

As much as I admire Hines, this is ridiculous. There is no need for a 50 story tower at the corner of Peachtree-Dunwoody & Mt. Vernon Roads.

You seem to be on the verge of a meltdown over the prospect of two derelict blocks on the edge of Downtown being developed with decent residential. What exactly is the parallel to highrises going up in other, totally unrelated and drastically different parts of town?

Wait a min... What was the purpose of your posts about how the downtown apartment proposal represented a market based proposal, well thought out by the developers. But somehow this is out of place. Why isn't this also a market based proposal? Keep in mind that the Central Perimeter submarket the the largest office tenant submarket in the city with downtown being the fourth largest. Link.

The responses to the apartment complex that it "fits" in Dunwoody and the responses to this that "fits" better in downtown are all based on aspirational notions of how we should approach growth as a region and not necessarily reality. I'm not saying those desires for a stronger central downtown are wrong, its just now where we are. Atlanta is and will remain for the foreseeable future a city of regional pods. And if history continues the core of office tenants and population growth will continue to creep north on an imaginary line. Hines' proposal is forward looking towards this reality and not towards some aspiration of what we "should" be.