The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[Fischbob]

It's gonna be a crowded PAC meeting next month, if the upcoming public hearings are any indication. Below is the list of applications that require a public hearing from tomorrow's Council Agenda (page 31):



Of note, two new multi-unit residential proposals (one at the end of Manners Sutton in Millidgeville and one on Loch Lomond near Hickey Road), a multi-unit conversion on Keirstead Road, and a commercial development just up the hill from Cedarcrest on Sandy Point Road.

We'll know more when the November PAC agenda is released.

[WharfRat]

Premier Brian Gallant has announced $50 million to build a newly minted New Brunswick Museum which will have all the components of the museum under one roof in the uptown. Exactly where in the uptown has not been spelled out.

The government will be seeking additional funding from the federal government as well as privately. The scale and precise location of the project will be determined based on funding commitments from other partners.

The goal is to begin site work in spring of 2018.

The Premier says the museum attracts upwards of 100,000 people annually between its two facilities in Market Square and Douglas Avenue.

http://www.country94.ca/news/1385868017/premier-commits-building-new-museum
http://huddle.today/province-commits-50-million-new-museum-uptown-saint-john/

Wow that's seem ambitious, do they even have a building design? I know they have batted the idea around for sometime now but how much planning has really happened?? This is far to important for the city/uptown to be rushed.

[Franco401]

The province said it recognizes the heritage value of the museum’s Douglas Avenue property and will work with partners to find a new purpose for the building. The Department of Transportation and Infrastructure is doing repairs to the building to ensure its longevity.

This is excellent news as well.

[kwajo]

Originally Posted by WharfRat

Premier Brian Gallant has announced $50 million to build a newly minted New Brunswick Museum which will have all the components of the museum under one roof in the uptown. Exactly where in the uptown has not been spelled out.

The government will be seeking additional funding from the federal government as well as privately. The scale and precise location of the project will be determined based on funding commitments from other partners.

The goal is to begin site work in spring of 2018.

The Premier says the museum attracts upwards of 100,000 people annually between its two facilities in Market Square and Douglas Avenue.

http://www.country94.ca/news/1385868017/premier-commits-building-new-museum
http://huddle.today/province-commits-50-million-new-museum-uptown-saint-john/

Wow that's seem ambitious, do they even have a building design? I know they have batted the idea around for sometime now but how much planning has really happened?? This is far to important for the city/uptown to be rushed.

I hate this kind of announcement, it implies a very short timeline, that everything is already decided by the powers-that-be, and cuts the public out of the discussion entirely. If they have a site already, or a design already, they should be holding public consultations and fostering dialogue, not simply holding funding announcements. Don't get me wrong, the funding is incredibly good news, but Saint John - and New Brunswick as a whole - needs to get with the times and start meaningfully engaging with its citizens, in particular when dealing with large, dense, diverse populations in cities.

[MonctonRad]

Good news indeed, but the manner of the announcement is suspect (as kwajo pointed out), and it would appear there is a hurried time frame underway, not allowing meaningful public input.

Hmmmm - isn't there a provincial election in less than a year. Maybe this is the reason for the need for speed.........

[Fischbob]

I can understand the compressed timeline, considering the collection and staff were supposed to be out of the Douglas Avenue building this year (the building is in very poor condition after years of provincial neglect). Hopefully this won't compromise the quality of the proposed new building. This could be a Halifax Public Library kind of moment for Uptown SJ in terms of getting an iconic building if the province doesn't mess it up.

Any guesses on what the site will end up being? I can think of a few candidates off the top of my head:

- (part of the) Coast Guard site.
- King's Square North (former Paramount to former Dominion).
- Port property in the Pugsley Park area (between Coast Guard and Marco Polo cruise terminal).
- Provincial Building (presumably would be demolished?) and adjacent parking lot on Charlotte.
- Red Rose parking lot.
- Transformer site and/or adjacent parking lot on Smythe.

My favourite potential site would have been a renovated Courthouse with a contemporary expansion off the back and onto where IOL is now building their parking garage. Alas.

Of the list above, I think I would go for the Pugsley Park option, for a few reasons:
- Most of the other sites are more valuable as candidates for mixed-use development and increasing residential density in the Uptown. Meanwhile, the Port's charter prohibits residential development on its land.
- Prominent waterfront site.
- Proximity to disembarking cruise passengers.
- The set back nature of the cruise terminals along that side of Water Street lends itself well to a monumental institutional-type building.

The province said it recognizes the heritage value of the museum’s Douglas Avenue property and will work with partners to find a new purpose for the building.

I'm taking this statement purely as lip service until the building is actually occupied post-NBM decamping. Remember the Old General?

[McKay]

Originally Posted by kwajo

I hate this kind of announcement, it implies a very short timeline, that everything is already decided by the powers-that-be, and cuts the public out of the discussion entirely. If they have a site already, or a design already, they should be holding public consultations and fostering dialogue, not simply holding funding announcements.

There are some things governments do where public consultation — or, more usually, stakeholder consultation — can add value, but I'm honestly at a loss to understand how building a museum fits that category. Design by a committee of thousands?

[mylesmalley]

It really should go out in Hampton so that it has good highway access and lots of area for surface parking

Worked for Moncton High...

[Ire Narissis]

I'd love to see a waterfront location for the museum so that they could have a direct view on the harbour for an informative area about the bay and the tides.

I also think it's no coincidence that this funding comes to a traditionally conservative-voting area in the year before the Liberal government goes up for re-election... but I have no issue with that; the year or so leading up to election has always been, and will always be, the time when big popular projects happen.

[kwajo]

Originally Posted by McKay

There are some things governments do where public consultation — or, more usually, stakeholder consultation — can add value, but I'm honestly at a loss to understand how building a museum fits that category. Design by a committee of thousands?

Because it is a major investment in a public building in our highest-density neighbourhood and central business district, all categories that demand some level of public input or at the very least an open design, tender and consultation process.

I get that the compressed timeline is necessary for both the security of the collections (which is incredibly important) and for getting visible progress on the ground before the election next year, but this is a generational opportunity for the central core of the city and we shouldn't be rushing it or skipping key steps in a good process. Getting an iconic museum building would do wonders for the region, but you're not going to throw a building like the Canadian Museum for Human Rights or the Halifax Library together in a few fiscal quarters.

Now I know that a lot of people have been working for years on this file, and perhaps there has been a thoughtful, beautiful design completed and a meaningful site selection process undertaken (I do know some details of this, about which I cannot comment), but again, if that much work has gone into it, there should be more public notice given and more time left for input.

[saintjohnirish☘]

Hopefully there is a much more prominent indigenous element in the exhibits

[Southpaw78]

Originally Posted by Fischbob

I can understand the compressed timeline, considering the collection and staff were supposed to be out of the Douglas Avenue building this year (the building is in very poor condition after years of provincial neglect). Hopefully this won't compromise the quality of the proposed new building. This could be a Halifax Public Library kind of moment for Uptown SJ in terms of getting an iconic building if the province doesn't mess it up.

Any guesses on what the site will end up being? I can think of a few candidates off the top of my head:

- (part of the) Coast Guard site.
- King's Square North (former Paramount to former Dominion).
- Port property in the Pugsley Park area (between Coast Guard and Marco Polo cruise terminal).
- Provincial Building (presumably would be demolished?) and adjacent parking lot on Charlotte.
- Red Rose parking lot.
- Transformer site and/or adjacent parking lot on Smythe.

My favourite potential site would have been a renovated Courthouse with a contemporary expansion off the back and onto where IOL is now building their parking garage. Alas.

Of the list above, I think I would go for the Pugsley Park option, for a few reasons:
- Most of the other sites are more valuable as candidates for mixed-use development and increasing residential density in the Uptown. Meanwhile, the Port's charter prohibits residential development on its land.
- Prominent waterfront site.
- Proximity to disembarking cruise passengers.
- The set back nature of the cruise terminals along that side of Water Street lends itself well to a monumental institutional-type building.



I'm taking this statement purely as lip service until the building is actually occupied post-NBM decamping. Remember the Old General?

What about 91 King? Or would that be too small. That corner remains one of the Uptown's biggest blights...

[Franco401]

Originally Posted by Southpaw78

What about 91 King? Or would that be too small. That corner remains one of the Uptown's biggest blights...

Definitely on the small side. The city may also want to build on a currently vacant or parking lot instead of tearing down a fine-grained retail building (blighted as it is)

[MonctonRad]

I'm banking on the coast guard site as the home for the museum. It would be an anchor for the harbour front and very convenient for cruise ship passengers.

[Whaler]

Originally Posted by ricker

Never when KC Irving was alive.

Not true

[Whaler]

Irving had an agency store in Red Bank for over 30 years.

[WharfRat]

Originally Posted by Fischbob

My favourite potential site would have been a renovated Courthouse with a contemporary expansion off the back and onto where IOL is now building their parking garage. Alas.

Yes, indeed this would have been an excellent spot, the courthouse, the old fire station and Loyalist Burial Ground. This spot sat undeveloped forever..go figure.

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I'm banking on the coast guard site as the home for the museum. It would be an anchor for the harbour front and very convenient for cruise ship passengers.

This is where I would be parking my bets too

[ricker]

Originally Posted by Whaler

Irving had an agency store in Red Bank for over 30 years.

Well you may be right?
But what i do know is this he was dead against liquor right up to when he passed away 25 years ago!

[Ire Narissis]

Anyone know what's going on with the Petro-Canada stations in the city? Yesterday I found the Hilyard St. one fenced off and closed, so I drove to Bayside Dr., and it was the same way. Renovations, maybe?

[WharfRat]

Originally Posted by Ire Narissis

Anyone know what's going on with the Petro-Canada stations in the city? Yesterday I found the Hilyard St. one fenced off and closed, so I drove to Bayside Dr., and it was the same way. Renovations, maybe?

http://country94.ca/news/632536326/saint-john-losing-two-petro-canada-stations-end-month