Winnipeg Construction X

[OTA in Winnipeg]

Originally Posted by BAKGUY

I'd like to know why and can the city still do whatever may be required to have a good chance to get the additional $70 mil?

Likewise

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by BAKGUY

I'd like to know why and can the city still do whatever may be required to have a good chance to get the additional $70 mil?

Based on Gillingham's comments the city's request was aiming high for what they would reasonably expect to get, and we ended up with a little more than what we would reasonably expect to get. Nothing wrong with that IMO, the city still gets some substantial federal housing cash.

[ColdRain&Snow]

Originally Posted by BAKGUY

I'd like to know why and can the city still do whatever may be required to have a good chance to get the additional $70 mil?

The amount Winnipeg received is in-line with other cities our size. The total budget for the housing accelerator fund is $4 Billion, so there is a limit to how much each city can realistically receive without taking away money from other cities.

Winnipeg proper (within the city limits) has a population of 749,607 (2021 Census) and received $122 million from the Housing Accelerator Fund.

For comparison, Mississauga proper has a population of 717,961 and received $113 million from the HAF.

https://globalnews.ca/news/10177084/...or-fund-money/

Vancouver proper has a population of 631,486 and received $115 million from the HAF.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...deau-1.7060902

Keep in mind that the cost of housing in Vancouver and Mississauga is much, much high than in Winnipeg.

https://rentals.ca/national-rent-report

[FactaNV]

Originally Posted by ColdRain&Snow

The amount Winnipeg received is in-line with other cities our size. The total budget for the housing accelerator fund is $4 Billion, so there is a limit to how much each city can realistically receive without taking away money from other cities.

Winnipeg proper (within the city limits) has a population of 749,607 (2021 Census) and received $122 million from the Housing Accelerator Fund.

For comparison, Mississauga proper has a population of 717,961 and received $113 million from the HAF.

https://globalnews.ca/news/10177084/...or-fund-money/

Vancouver proper has a population of 631,486 and received $115 million from the HAF.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...deau-1.7060902

Keep in mind that the cost of housing in Vancouver and Mississauga is much, much high than in Winnipeg.

https://rentals.ca/national-rent-report

So what now? How does this money get used realistically?

[wags_in_the_peg]

does this $ go to developers to subsize building of house / apartments? or does it go to general revenue of the city? anyone know?

[ColdRain&Snow]

Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg

does this $ go to developers to subsize building of house / apartments? or does it go to general revenue of the city? anyone know?

The money goes to a bunch of different things. I'll give a detailed answer later tonight.

For now, from CBC:

The funding announced Wednesday will be divided among seven initiatives:

-Rapid zoning bylaw amendments.
-Amendments to local area plans.
-Incentive programs promoting multi-family housing downtown and on corridors.
-Establishment of a land enhancement office.
-Creation of a city "concierge" for affordable housing.
-Infrastructure supports to increase residential development.
-Digitizing and speeding up development and permit approvals.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...ment-1.7065380

[wags_in_the_peg]

something / someone has to be done for schools in high immigrant areas, they are bursting at seems. my wife has numerous new elementary students that know Zero english. the support system is cracking, big time

[bomberjet]

The money goes to the city and used for whatever they need it for. They get the money in exchange for allowing more units to be built and all the stuff that's been discussed.

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by FactaNV

So what now? How does this money get used realistically?

nieghborhoods alive comes back?
see grants for granny suits and adding apartment to ur house u live in?

[rkspec]

Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg

something / someone has to be done for schools in high immigrant areas, they are bursting at seems. my wife has numerous new elementary students that know Zero english. the support system is cracking, big time

so unfair that teachers must deal with this, its almost as if these new children should go to ESL classes before they even enter a public school.

[bowling_ball]

Originally Posted by ColdRain&Snow

The money goes to a bunch of different things. I'll give a detailed answer later tonight.

For now, from CBC:

The funding announced Wednesday will be divided among seven initiatives:

-Rapid zoning bylaw amendments.
-Amendments to local area plans.
-Incentive programs promoting multi-family housing downtown and on corridors.
-Establishment of a land enhancement office.
-Creation of a city "concierge" for affordable housing.
-Infrastructure supports to increase residential development.
-Digitizing and speeding up development and permit approvals.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...ment-1.7065380

I don't post very much at all here but the more I look into this, the more it occurs to me that it's unlikely that any of the actual cash will go to bricks and mortar.

Just doing simple math, without a dollar spent on administrative (not possible but let's ignore it for now), that's about $36k per unit, assuming an average of 600sf/unit. That covers about 20% to 25% of the cost of construction these days.

Now let's be optimistic and say that half goes to admin, half goes to construction... this 'grant' covers about 10% of the cost of construction. It's not at all clear how or when developers can access this money to reduce the costs of their construction to make things more affordable (which is the purported goal).

Just my 2 cents based on ~20 years in the MURB game.

[ColdRain&Snow]

From the City's Housing Accelerator Fund application back in July:

Housing Type Funding Amount per unit:
Base Funding:
• All housing types $20,000

Top-up Funding:
• Multi-unit (in proximity to rapid transit): $15,000
• Multi-unit (missing middle): $12,000
• Multi-unit (other): $ 7,000

Affordable Housing Bonus: $19,000

More Info is here:
https://clkapps.winnipeg.ca/dmis/Vie...onId=&InitUrl=

[ColdRain&Snow]

Hopefully this screenshot from the HAF application is readable:

[Labroco]

Originally Posted by ColdRain&Snow

The money goes to a bunch of different things. I'll give a detailed answer later tonight.

For now, from CBC:

The funding announced Wednesday will be divided among seven initiatives:

-Rapid zoning bylaw amendments.
-Amendments to local area plans.
-Incentive programs promoting multi-family housing downtown and on corridors.
-Establishment of a land enhancement office.
-Creation of a city "concierge" for affordable housing.
-Infrastructure supports to increase residential development.
-Digitizing and speeding up development and permit approvals.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...ment-1.7065380

So the funding is flowing to creat more bureaucracy and not towards the developers taking the risk of developing new housing everyone wants? The City is also not providing shovel ready building sites and lots for the private and public developers to fast track…

As I mentioned before, it’s my opinion once marketlands were remediated, the sidewalks, infrastructure, service hook ups should be provided and taxation relaxed. The cost of the land should have been $1.00 not $4,000,000. This is the type of subsidy which would lead to more urban housing quickly and a higher quality solution.

It makes no sense to me for the balance of the site to require the purchaser to incure all costs for roadways services sidewalks etc and pay a perceived market value for the land. Provide a shovel ready environment with these costs absorbed already prior to any builder involvement. If one really wants affordable housing creat the desirable conditions for success.

More bureaucracy and talking heads will not get the job done..

Wishing all a joyed holiday season with a firm believe there is still hope and ways for warm homes for all in the core of our City.

[trueviking]

Item three is a significant incentive program for developers. Item six is investing in infrastructure to help reduce costs and open land for developers. The rest are items that decrease bureaucracy, including elimination of lengthy processes for rezoning. Item four is a department to identify city owned properties and work with developers to sell and build on them.

You are right. Giving away city assets to developers for free is a way to get affordable housing, if that gift comes with a contractual obligation to do so. CentreVenture was masterful at pulling together tens of millions of dollars from the federal government and securing a respected developer like UWCR 2.0 to achieve affordable housing on the south half. The rest of the site is not specifically intended to be affordable, although it might be. There is an exciting development being worked on. Hopefully it happens.

I personally don’t want the city giving away its assets for free to developers. I doubt many Winnipeg tax payers would want that either.

[pspeid]

^ Excellent points. I'm sure I've read complaints by developers for years on how difficult it can be to get city permits, etc. I would hope many would see the benefit in this.

[bomberjet]

The developer in here wants everything for free. Go figure.

[dmacc]

Originally Posted by trueviking

Item three is a significant incentive program for developers. Item six is investing in infrastructure to help reduce costs and open land for developers. The rest are items that decrease bureaucracy, including elimination of lengthy processes for rezoning. Item four is a department to identify city owned properties and work with developers to sell and build on them.

You are right. Giving away city assets to developers for free is a way to get affordable housing, if that gift comes with a contractual obligation to do so. CentreVenture was masterful at pulling together tens of millions of dollars from the federal government and securing a respected developer like UWCR 2.0 to achieve affordable housing on the south half. The rest of the site is not specifically intended to be affordable, although it might be. There is an exciting development being worked on. Hopefully it happens.

I personally don’t want the city giving away its assets for free to developers. I doubt many Winnipeg tax payers would want that either.

I would be ok giving away assets on the cheap or even for free as long as there are stipulations that if the developer in unable to develop something within a decade with a land value above a certain value ($50M?) that the developer would need to return the land and pay a fine equal to the value increase of the land over that time.

If the land sold for nothing but worth $4M today and after the decade the developer did not meet their expectations (empty lot) they would return the land. If the land was now determined to be worth $6M due to inflation, the developer pays a fine equal to that increase.

This would create the environment Labroco is asking for and deferring costs and risks to them down the road while also holding them accountable in the event they waste the opportunity.

[FactaNV]

Announcement of projects sure has been slow lately! Anything on anyone's radar that's interesting? Looking at you developer-adjacent folk.

[zalf]

Part of the parking lot at McDermot and Tecumseh was recently fenced off, and a billboard is up showing the render posted here of a new HSC building.