Federal Government & Politics II

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

It's pretty wild. Poilievre said today in a news conference that he got his information from a CTV article that said officials were looking at the Rainbow Bridge crash as terrorism, but that CTV article came out 20 minutes after he spoke in the HOC. Here's a Twitter thread with the receipts.

PP is such a dick. He thought he was going to be the first party leader to call it an act of terrorism so that he could later blame Trudeau for being too slow to react and realize what happened. It's pretty funny that it backfired. PP made a pretty big error and really jumped the gun. I've always questioned his judgment and this reinforces how I think about him.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by Loco101

The curfews in Quebec were the one things that went WAY too far in my opinion. I'm in Ontario and felt that most of what was done here was reasonable until 2022 once everyone had a chance to be vaccinated.

Absolutely disagree. The lockdowns in Ontario was dragged out way too long, and was absolutely devastating to the province's economy and mental well-being. Toronto was literally the lockdown capital of North America.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

Absolutely disagree. The lockdowns in Ontario was dragged out way too long, and was absolutely devastating to the province's economy and mental well-being. Toronto was literally the lockdown capital of North America.

It all depends on what parts of the lockdowns we are talking about. By 2022 I was against lockdowns because everyone had a chance to be vaccinated and Omicron was showing to be much less severe. Before that I had no issue with measures to drastically reduce spreading.

As for mental health, it was children who were unfairly hurt the most by the measures. Again, the 2022 school closures were unnecessary and I'm glad enough people spoke up that the government reopened schools earlier than what they first announced.

Did Covid actually devastate Ontario's economy? I don't think that it did as a whole but there were certainly many small businesses that were hurt and forced to close while larger ones were allowed to remain open and saw huge profits. I would also say that things varied a lot by community. I live in a place where nothing closed because of the pandemic and in fact some stores and restaurants opened. But the location of the businesses made a big difference because where I live doesn't really depend on tourism or large numbers of downtown office workers but places that did saw a lot of closures.

[Djeffery]

The first wave of lockdown in 2020 was fine, there was so much unknown. But after things got open again later on that summer, there should have been no reason to lockdown again. People were to free self impose a lockdown on themselves. But it was ridiculous to impose it on everyone else. There was way too much "I'm too scared to go eat or shop, so you shouldn't be allowed to either" going on.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

You guys got too into it because of US politics and it still follows those lines, as will any ensuing discussion here. Canada was a silly place during those years.

I am not sure we are past it. There is not much of a firewall between Canada and the USA. The USA is headed for likely a very bitter election with a substantial likelihood that Trump will be re-elected. Our government engages in expressive politics, is not very effective, and likely will be replaced with a Conservative government that a lot of people will hate based on a quasi-religious basis due to American media.

There's a kind of societal mental health level and Canadian society has at times lost touch with reality and gone a little psychotic. It wasn't just covid. Canada's been trending downward and covid was a negative shock.

[SignalHillHiker]

The Canada-EU summit here is still underway and we learned Ursula von der Leyen’s husband was one of the people stranded for days in Gander after 9/11.

Primary local focus seems to be green hydrogen development, and main international one seems to be torn between Ukraine (the politicians) and Israel (the protestors outside).

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

The first wave of lockdown in 2020 was fine, there was so much unknown. But after things got open again later on that summer, there should have been no reason to lockdown again. People were to free self impose a lockdown on themselves. But it was ridiculous to impose it on everyone else. There was way too much "I'm too scared to go eat or shop, so you shouldn't be allowed to either" going on.

Yeah, after the basic parameters of the disease were well known and there was a broad understanding of who was at risk, we kept having lockdown after lockdown. Also, even though vaccines were widely available by mid 2021, significant restrictions were maintained well into 2022.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

The first wave of lockdown in 2020 was fine, there was so much unknown. But after things got open again later on that summer, there should have been no reason to lockdown again. People were to free self impose a lockdown on themselves. But it was ridiculous to impose it on everyone else. There was way too much "I'm too scared to go eat or shop, so you shouldn't be allowed to either" going on.

Indeed - there were too many unknowns at first to reasonably navigate everything without messing up at some point. It's later on things got ridiculous. In Ontario's case the big issue was such massive wait times between each "step" of reopening at a point we were virtually all vaccinated. This is when people began to get really fed up and stopped caring, at least in my circles.

Of course there will always be the contingent that (seemingly to this day) demands people never go outside...

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by niwell

Indeed - there were too many unknowns at first to reasonably navigate everything without messing up at some point. It's later on things got ridiculous. In Ontario's case the big issue was such massive wait times between each "step" of reopening at a point we were virtually all vaccinated. This is when people began to get really fed up and stopped caring, at least in my circles.

Of course there will always be the contingent that (seemingly to this day) demands people never go outside...

Agree 100%.

The initial response to the pandemic was entirely appropriate.

The tardiness with which restrictions were lifted however was unconscionable. This did nothing but do great harm to the economy and to mental health (even to myself, a pretty level headed individual).

Of course, a bureaucracy runs at convoy speed, and trying to reverse a public policy decision by the bureaucracy is akin to stopping an oil tanker in the mid Atlantic - it can be done, but, the momentum of the beast means that you're final resting spot will be about a dozen nautical miles ahead.

Add in the aversion to risk taking by government bureaucracy, and cover-your-ass decision making, and we're lucky we still aren't under full COVID restrictions even now............

[niwell]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Of course, a bureaucracy runs at convoy speed, and trying to reverse a public policy decision by the bureaucracy is akin to stopping an oil tanker in the mid Atlantic - it can be done, but, the momentum of the beast means that you're final resting spot will be about a dozen nautical miles ahead.

Add in the aversion to risk taking by government bureaucracy, and cover-your-ass decision making, and we're lucky we still aren't under full COVID restrictions even now............

This can certainly be true, but COVID was also a perfect example of how it isn't always the case. I was "lucky" enough to assist with some of the COVID relief work after lockdowns before Christmas two years in a row. We basically designed the parameters and implemented a program including application portals involving multiple Ministries in less than 2 weeks. Lots of emails and calls very late in the evening during time when most people are off for the holidays...

So it makes it even more unconscionable to me the speed at which things were lifted. We had the capacity on the policy side.

[casper]

Originally Posted by niwell

This can certainly be true, but COVID was also a perfect example of how it isn't always the case. I was "lucky" enough to assist with some of the COVID relief work after lockdowns before Christmas two years in a row. We basically designed the parameters and implemented a program including application portals involving multiple Ministries in less than 2 weeks. Lots of emails and calls very late in the evening during time when most people are off for the holidays...

So it makes it even more unconscionable to me the speed at which things were lifted. We had the capacity on the policy side.

These responses were all regional. In BC our response was very much driven by numbers. The focus was to not overload the hospital system. As things improved restrictions were reduced. As they became worse they were increased.

The last restrictions to be lifted were Canadians entering the US. The one the "truckers" (if we want to call them that) were most concerned about. Restrictions that were not imposed by Canadian government. Restrictions that were also very poorly enforced.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Loco101

PP is such a dick. He thought he was going to be the first party leader to call it an act of terrorism so that he could later blame Trudeau for being too slow to react and realize what happened. It's pretty funny that it backfired. PP made a pretty big error and really jumped the gun. I've always questioned his judgment and this reinforces how I think about him.

Clearly. He does not have the correct temperament and experience to be PM.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by Loco101

PP is such a dick. He thought he was going to be the first party leader to call it an act of terrorism so that he could later blame Trudeau for being too slow to react and realize what happened. It's pretty funny that it backfired. PP made a pretty big error and really jumped the gun. I've always questioned his judgment and this reinforces how I think about him.

He even has the gall to say things like this: "I never take a position before I have had a chance to actually look at what's written down on paper." (that was in reference to Bill C-58, which would ban scabs in most federally regulated workplaces)

He clearly doesn't even do what he says he does, and this is the perfect example on how he's not fit to lead a political party, let alone a country.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Loco101

PP is such a dick. He thought he was going to be the first party leader to call it an act of terrorism so that he could later blame Trudeau for being too slow to react and realize what happened. It's pretty funny that it backfired. PP made a pretty big error and really jumped the gun. I've always questioned his judgment and this reinforces how I think about him.

It makes you wonder what he would do if in charge? Order border and airport closures on the Canadian side?

wHaT aBoUt mY fReEdOm?!?!

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

The first wave of lockdown in 2020 was fine, there was so much unknown. But after things got open again later on that summer, there should have been no reason to lockdown again. People were to free self impose a lockdown on themselves. But it was ridiculous to impose it on everyone else. There was way too much "I'm too scared to go eat or shop, so you shouldn't be allowed to either" going on.

From BC we didn't lock down as much as everyone else and it seemed to work ok, but we definitely had cancelled surgeries and other impacts to the healthcare system. Lockdowns were always about protecting hospital capacity here.

[WarrenC12]

Good PP cartoon today in the Star:

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/edit...60512a3e3.html

Not a Russian asset, just voting in line with their interests.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Good PP cartoon today in the Star:

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/edit...60512a3e3.html

Not a Russian asset, just voting in line with their interests.

Yeah I posted a link to that in the Foreign Policy thread. Really shows they are the same old petrol party beholden to Alberta and the oil patch. The dumbest part is Ukraine already has a carbon price as it wants to enter the EU. This grandstanding and 'virtue signaling' to the base is pathetic and further evidence of PeePee's immaturity and unsuitability as leader of our country (along with the pre-emptive declaration of a terrorist attack at the Rainbow bridge).

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/libe...bill-1.6656043

I hope TrueNorth is taking note of this.

[O-tacular]

Reeeefwwaaaaoooorrrrrmmmmm is still alive and well in the CPC:

Braid: Manning's email blooper shows growing use of public money for partisan gain

It's all quite shameless, but not entirely different from the $7.5 million being spent to promote an Alberta pension plan


...Manning’s first move is to weaponize his report as a potential bunker-buster for the next federal election.

“If the response of the Liberal/NDP coalition to the 2020-2023 COVID crisis should become an election issue in 2024, there may be some material in this report that could be used by the CPC,” he wrote.

Candidates could use it to say what should have been done, and what could be done in the next crisis.

“Some of its content may also be useful in attacking the record of the Liberal/NDP coalition in this area,” wrote Manning.

He goes on to say, “there would be real merit in developing a closer practical relationship in Alberta between the UCP and the CPC.

“They need your support for some of their initiatives — such as promoting and implementing the recommendations of this report — and you could use their active support for your re-election in 2024.”

He suggests a joint task force to implement these ideas.

They could all sit around the campaign campfire reading his excellent platform document, purchased with your money...

https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/co...-partisan-gain

Here's the e-mail the befuddled fool accidentally sent to Calgary Liberal MP George Chahal:



Hopefully it's becoming clear to undecided centrist voters that a vote for the CPC is a vote for Danielle Smith and the UCP who are becoming increasingly intertwined with the federal conservatives.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Yeah I posted a link to that in the Foreign Policy thread. Really shows they are the same old petrol party beholden to Alberta and the oil patch. The dumbest part is Ukraine already has a carbon price as it wants to enter the EU. This grandstanding and 'virtue signaling' to the base is pathetic and further evidence of PeePee's immaturity and unsuitability as leader of our country (along with the pre-emptive declaration of a terrorist attack at the Rainbow bridge).

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/libe...bill-1.6656043

I hope TrueNorth is taking note of this.

I am not sure about grandstanding by PP on this bill but let's be honest. Ukraine certainly does not have a carbon tax in an real sense. They have a levy of a few dollars per ton on industrial emitters. There is no requirement to have a carbon tax in order to join the EU but of course should that arise they will levy one. The argument he is protecting Ukraine is of course laughable. This is aspirational language but it would be hypocritical for CPC to vote for it when they plan to repeal all such taxes in Canada. If the NDP and Bloc can't vote for it for their own reasons that is a different issue.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Good PP cartoon today in the Star:

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/edit...60512a3e3.html

Not a Russian asset, just voting in line with their interests.

To portray Poilievre as some sort of Russian asset, a la Trump, is dishonest. He's too smart to ignore the large voting bloc of Ukrainian heritage in Canada.